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View Full Version : Pedigree Dog programme on TV tonight



meljoy
14th March 2010, 06:18 PM
On More 4 @ 9pm. It says in the blurb it's a programme looking at best practices in Pedigree dog breeding with a debate regarding claim and counter claims!

Worth a look maybe?

Karen and Ruby
14th March 2010, 08:10 PM
I shall be taking a look for sure!!!

Karlin
14th March 2010, 09:52 PM
Made with lots of involvement/input/support from the KC, I believe -- so expect that to influence the output and perspective. :rolleyes:

meljoy
14th March 2010, 10:24 PM
It did Karlin you're right. The good thing about it was though that it discussed the Bateson report and also the importance of researching the puppy you buy first and to NEVER buy from a puppy farm.

The main message that came across was that it is dog owners who are now responsible for the health of dogs and not just the breeders. If the breeders dont health check then dont buy from them.

Hopefully many potential dog buyers will heed the advice.

Karlin
14th March 2010, 10:33 PM
Those are all good messages to get out there :) -- a lot of work needs to be done to educate buyers, who often have no idea they are not purchasing from a reputable source.

However the KC has been trying to deflect attention fro the actual, proven, on the ground problems with pedigree dog breeding amongst KC and breed club breeders, andmake out that the issue is all really about puppy farms: simply untrue. It is a separate but major issue, and one with a lot of ironies as far as the KC is concerned.

For example, I'd like the KC and clubs to make KC registration and especially the accredited breeders scheme actually mean something for buyers, but right now these are both only the most basic first steps towards perhaps getting a decent breeder. Especially as puppy farms and BYBs and mass breeders routinely get KC registration (or the equivalent in other cpuntries) for their puppies. If the KC weren't so willing to accept registrations from puppy farmers, it would be a major step towards helping buyers get a bit closer to ensuring they aren't buying from puppy farms. :rolleyes: There's a heck of a lot of income from the BYBs and puppy farms coming into the KC right now; also to the IKC and AKC. The IKC made it a bit harder by requiring microchipping and traceability for puppies -- something puppy farmers do not like -- but registration income dropped as a result. A lot braver than the KC though!

Tania
14th March 2010, 10:37 PM
Originally this documentary asked for my involvment, eventually it was decided not to
include any CKSS because it was too controversial after a few conversations, this was my conclusion.:(

lorebringer
14th March 2010, 10:41 PM
The program can be viewed here (for the next month!)
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/good-dog-bad-dog/4od#3048666

Tania
14th March 2010, 10:57 PM
Especially as puppy farms and BYBs and mass breeders routinely get KC registration (or the equivalent in other cpuntries) for their puppies. If the KC weren't so willing to accept registrations from puppy farmers, it would be a major step towards helping buyers get a bit closer to ensuring they aren't buying from puppy farms. :rolleyes: There's a heck of a lot of income from the BYBs and puppy farms coming into the KC right now;

I asked the KC about this, they are taking the stand that less than 1% of dogs are from Puppy Farms and they
have this situation under control !

What I don't understand is; surely the KC would command a lot more respect and long term financially gain if
they were to do the right thing and stamp out puppy farming and bad breeding practices. It seems like a very long winded process unecessarily. They should for a start be running some adverts on TV at prime time showing how horrendous these puppy farms are and make people aware of fronts for puppy farms. The government have run over the years lots of adverts about speeding and drink driving which all stick in our minds, a campaign similar needs to happen. The KC present themselves as part of the establishment, therefore they need to stand up and be counted instead of ducking the difficult issues!

Margaret C
14th March 2010, 11:25 PM
The film was quite well balanced and I thought the points that Dogs Today Editor, Beverley Cuddy, and Vet, Nicky Paull, were very informative.

Professor Bateson and Mark Evans as contributors also ensured that the KC was not given too much leeway, and Caroline Kisko even conceded that if the show ring caused the problem then the show ring may be the place to put things right,
It is well worth watching

The idea of a puppy contract for every dog bred is an interesting thought.

After all the hysteria and denial from Kennel Club and breeders when PDE was shown, there now seems to be some acceptance that there are things that must be changed in the dog breeding world.

Karlin
14th March 2010, 11:30 PM
That's great news that many perspectives are there; will enjoy catching this later in the week.

Tania are you saying rhe KC thinks only 1% of the dogs they register are from puppy farms?!!!! I wonder how they define 'puppy farms'. They surely cannot be so naive as to think they have this problem under control. It is quite easy to get KC registration and I am sure, as in many places, puppy farmers split the registrations across a few separate addresses. Club breeders themselves would be pretty skeptical of a 1% registration rate for puppy farm dogs, I should think :confused:...

lorebringer
14th March 2010, 11:37 PM
To give them some fair dues they do clearly define the difference between genuine breeders and puppy farms. They go into detail about breed temperment and the importance of chosing a breed that is right for you (which, in my opinion, is the biggest reason dogs end up in rescues and pounds across the country). Interesting to watch.

Margaret C
14th March 2010, 11:56 PM
That's great news that many perspectives are there; will enjoy catching this later in the week.

Tania are you saying rhe KC thinks only 1% of the dogs they register are from puppy farms?!!!! I wonder how they define 'puppy farms'. They surely cannot be so naive as to think they have this problem under control. It is quite easy to get KC registration and I am sure, as in many places, puppy farmers split the registrations across a few separate addresses. Club breeders themselves would be pretty skeptical of a 1% registration rate for puppy farm dogs, I should think :confused:...

1% is a ridiculous under-estimation. The KC is just spinning again.

They feel they cannot afford to lose the money that registrations from these breeders brings. That is why they are so reluctant to ask that all KC registered puppies have health tested parents, a simple move that would sort out most of the unethical, irresponsible, in-it-for-the-money, breeders.

Sabby
15th March 2010, 08:30 AM
Originally this documentary asked for my involvment, eventually it was decided not to
include any CKSS because it was too controversial after a few conversations, this was my conclusion.:(

This statement speaks louder then words.

Tania
15th March 2010, 08:52 AM
This statement speaks louder then words.

This was my conclusion at the time but on reflection we wouldn't have fit the way the programme
went.

I agree the programme was well balanced and informative, I wonder how many people watched it, I
had not heard of More 4 TV until recently, it is a shame it was not shown on a more popular chanel!

The KC told me they believe less than 1% of their registered dogs are possibly from Puppy Farm Type establishments!
They blamed the RSPCA for not getting puppy farms under control as he said they have the powers to shut them down but don't. I wasn't very aggressive and didn't challenge the chap as I wanted him to talk to me. "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

The KC on Saturday were there to mainly fob people like me off!

I firmly believe we have to get information out to the general public and create more awareness, I know
this is on the agenda but we have to try and help to get the messages out now.

Bet
15th March 2010, 10:24 AM
If I could add a few thoughts about last night's TV Program.

First of all what a sensible Vet Nicky Paull is. She was President of the BVA. The comments she made were making such a lot of sense,particularly about if one Dog has a Hereditary Problem in a Litter, then the Parents should not be Bred from again, because there is about every chance there would be more in the next Litter having the same Hereditary Problem.

Professor Sir P Bateson, remarked about the Accredited Breeders Scheme, saying that it had to tightened up.

That it was no use just Health Testing the Puppies in a Litter ,that the SIRE and DAMS had also to be Health Tested as well, before it could mean any-thing.

There was a Lady on the Program who was selling her Beardie Pups, made great play about having the Pups Health Checked by a Vet before they went to their new Homes, but absolutely no mention of having their Parents Health Tested.I think this was typical KC Spin. Caroline Kisko was trying to put across how good the Accredited Breeders Scheme is.

Professor Sir P Bateson also said ,and very emphatically ,that Breeding Grand-Mother to Grand-Son ,and Grand -Father to Grand -Daughter IS IN-BREEDING.

This has been going on in Pedigree Dogs for years and has been the cause of many of their Hereditary Problems.

Also he mentioned that the changes in Conformation has been the cause of some of the Health Problems in Pedigree Dogs.

The Small Heads of some of the Cavaliers to-day and their Brains being too Large for them ,Springs to mind.(My Thoughts)

He said that the Conformation Problems could be quite easily sorted out.

What Professor Sir P Bateson also said , how all the attention from the Public has now come about ,is because of the Pedigree Dogs Exposed TV Program.

That the Public now know that so many of the Pedigree Dogs are unhealthy ,and now are aware to ask Breeders ,before they buy a Dog ,has the Breeder carried out a Health Check on their Breeding Stock.

This was Emphazised by Beverely Cuddy ,when she said that the Puppy Contract ,could make such a difference to the Health of Pedigree Dogs.

If a Dog Buyer bought a Dog ,the Dog developes a Hereditary Problem known to that particular Breed , if the Breeder has not Health Tested the Parents for that Hereditary Problem, then the Breeder can be taken to Court.

Pleased to say , because I feel so strongly about this subject, that my Thoughts have been Published in this Edition of Dogstoday

I also said that it will only take a few cases going to Court ,and Breeders being Sued, to Focus Minds, and this will also catch the Puppy Farmers.

Bet

Cathy Moon
15th March 2010, 11:33 PM
Thank you for summing it up, Bet! We totally missed out on it in the US, so I appreciate your posting about it.:-)

Charlifarley
16th March 2010, 09:01 AM
I agree the programme was well balanced and informative, I wonder how many people watched it, I
had not heard of More 4 TV until recently, it is a shame it was not shown on a more popular chanel!


More 4 is part of the Channel 4 group of TV stations. Channel 4 (and E4) often show documentaries that were originally aired on More 4, so keep an eye on the tv listings, the programme could pop up again.