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linderbelle
25th March 2010, 06:23 PM
My husband just called. We own a plumbing company. He was at a customer's house and they were all excited. They were thinking about getting a cavalier puppy and its coming from Europe (I'm in the states). Wahooo!!! Well, my husband rained on their parade and said we've been there (Abbey came from Slovakia--sad but true--we were so stupid). I'm tempted to call this customer and really talk to them and hopefully they don't make this bad decision. Oh after my husband's conversation they called this "breeder" and yes everything is cool--the parents have been vacinated for sm. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Desrae
25th March 2010, 06:33 PM
:yikes vaccinated for SM???

Daisy's Mom
25th March 2010, 07:24 PM
I wish!

Love my Cavaliers
25th March 2010, 09:04 PM
Now wouldn't that be something!! Having an SM dog, I would be first in line for an SM vaccination for my other three. I want to say something about how ignorant people are when they buy a dog, but I am just as guilty as the people Linderbelle's husband talked to. I didn't know anything until I joined CavalierTalk for support and information when Riley was undergoing decompression surgery for her SM. Oliver is from a BYB and while my other three are from a "reputable" breeder, I did not ask questions. Many of my aquaintances have cavaliers from her, so i bought three of them blindly. To her credit, she does keep the dogs in her home and has a huge (and I mean HUGE) penned in area in the back for when they are outside and she does have them checked out by a cardiologist before she breeds them and before they go home as someone's new puppy. However, one of mine from her has SM and another has early onset-MVD and my dog from the BYB is both SM and MVD clear (examined by a cardiologist and verified by MRI at almost 9 years of age). Go figure. What I wouldn't give for a vaccine!

linderbelle
25th March 2010, 10:16 PM
I'm guilty too Bev. I thought we knew a bit but I've sure learned alot and I knew nothing about SM until after Bentley about a year and a half ago. If we wouldn't have gotten Bentley who knows what would have happened in regards to Abbey. Now with Chelsea and Bentley I thought these were from reputable breeders. I'm not so sure about that. One of them is very well known in Atl BUT she has MASS and I mean MASS dogs and I think there were 3 litters when we got Bentley. I've learned so much as I know you have and I'm always trying to spread the word. In regards to these people I just wanted to help them--not make fun of them. George assured me that they were rethinking it and now thinking about a pug. This is a horrible disease and it hits them so young. Abbey though like I said came from Slovakia and that should have put up a red alert but I hadn't done my homework and at the time they were kind of rare to be seen and just figured thats were most of them were coming from. Tis ok though because every day with Abbey is a blessing and gift and I cheerish every day with her and wouldn't have given up these past 6 years for nothing. Like Dr. Shores her neurologist said to me "you saved her" and yep we did.

Kate H
25th March 2010, 10:25 PM
The really depressing/frustrating thing about SM at the moment is that the breeder can scan and mate two dogs who scan clear, the buyer can ask all the right questions and see all the right pieces of paper and STILL get a puppy with SM. We don't need a vaccine, we need a DNA test!!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Margaret C
26th March 2010, 12:17 AM
The really depressing/frustrating thing about SM at the moment is that the breeder can scan and mate two dogs who scan clear, the buyer can ask all the right questions and see all the right pieces of paper and STILL get a puppy with SM. We don't need a vaccine, we need a DNA test!!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

This is unfortunately true, but the chances of getting a healthy dog is greater if you buy from a breeder who does the tests in the right way and at the right time.

The cavalier breed as a whole has a better chance of surviving if buyers purchase their pets from the breeders that give honest answers to their 'right' questions.

And just the act of asking for health certificates reminds breeders that they owe a duty of care to their dogs and the people that buy them.
Walking away when the protocols have not been followed is an even greater reminder.

linderbelle
26th March 2010, 12:34 AM
Hiya Margaret. How is life treating you? :)

Karlin
26th March 2010, 01:13 AM
The point is though that there's very good evidence that puppies from two clear dogs -- assuming they were scanned at at least 2.5 years old and the assessment of them being 'clear' was made by a knowledgable neurologist who knows the grading system -- will grow up with a vastly higher chance of also being clear, or having later onset SM, and not living in pain. Just the same as breeding heart clear cavaliers. I have a dog with a murmur that came from clear parents under the MVD protocol and good heart lines -- you can still have it show. But the dog is otherwise in great health, very active, and has had no discernable problems from her MVD. With SM, the goal is in the near to medium future going to be reducing incidence and reducing symptomatic SM, as it will take far longer to breed away from it entirely. But we can hope that's where we will eventually get!

I'd also however want a scanning breeder who knows the broader health status of those breeding dogs, ideally knowing of some good scans on close relatives. It is never just the picture of the individual dogs bit of the trends within the lines coupled with the scans/auscultations etc. :)

meljoy
26th March 2010, 12:23 PM
Can you ask them to tell the rest of us where they got the vaccine for SMicon_whistling

Wouldnt that be something.....plus the people buying the pup maybe should read up a little more about what having a cav entails then they might realise more about the health issues..
Hope fully they'll be one of the lucky ones huh

Kate H
26th March 2010, 01:38 PM
I agree entirely with what Margaret and Karlin have said - but also have friends who have done everything right and still had SM puppies, and they are finding it really hard. And these are exactly the responsible breeders we don't want to give up in despair - and these cases also give ammunition to the anti-scanners (if there are no guarantees, why bother?). More scanning, more A to A matings is the way forward at the moment, but also more courage and determination for breeders to stick with it.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Margaret C
27th March 2010, 12:00 AM
Hiya Margaret. How is life treating you? :)

Hello Linda,

I'm okay, although I lost my 7year old Japanese Chin to MVD recently and I have missed him so much.

How are you and Abbey? Hope she is doing well? Give her a little hug from me.

So pleased you are still spreading the word. We may not be able to change the world overnight, but I'm learning to settle for changing just one person over a matter of days.

Margaret C
27th March 2010, 12:21 AM
I agree entirely with what Margaret and Karlin have said - but also have friends who have done everything right and still had SM puppies, and they are finding it really hard. And these are exactly the responsible breeders we don't want to give up in despair - and these cases also give ammunition to the anti-scanners (if there are no guarantees, why bother?). More scanning, more A to A matings is the way forward at the moment, but also more courage and determination for breeders to stick with it.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Over the last six years I have seen the devastation experienced by responsible breeders who have done everything they should do, and still experienced really bad results.

Life is not fair, and I do understand how they must despair.

It is however reality. There are no guarantees. Nobody can promise that doing the right thing will automatically bring its own reward.

I really admire the breeders that have these terrible results but still continue because they have the future of the breed, and not just their own breeding programme, as their priority.

As for these cases giving ammunition to the anti-scanners, I will be honest and say that I will never be able to understand how anyone can consider not breeding responsibly.
It is bad enough to produce SM puppies when you have done everything possible to avoid that happening. How do breeders live with themselves when they have carelessly or thoughtlessly sentenced a cavalier of their own breeding to a pain filled life?