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Bet
25th March 2010, 07:57 PM
I see that the Knives are out already about Proposed Rules trying to save our Beloved Cavalier Breed from Extinction.

One in Particular ,is that that NO Cavalier Dog or Bitch be given the Title of Champion unless it has been Screened for Heart Disease and Syringomyelia.

Why this should be causing an Upset for some Cavalier Breeders ,I have no Idea.

Surely as Night Follows Day , this has to be a way forward for the Cavalier Breed.

Those are the Cavaliers who will be being mostly used in Breeding Programs, particularly the Cavalier Dogs who will be being used at Stud.

I really do think that some Cavalier Breeders have got to move into the 21st Century.

If they are not prepared to do this ,then for the sake of the Cavalier Breed, let the other Cavalier Breeders move on .

If not ,then they will be remembered for doing Irreparable Harm to the Future of Cavaliers.

Bet

Karlin
25th March 2010, 09:03 PM
Don't worry, Bet -- some of us love and cherish such posts! :lol:

Some well known breeders and club members making public posts about their opposition to such issues, particularly when being sarcastic and unpleasant, and others chiming in, is so useful for sending on to the people deciding on whether legislation is necessary to force breeders to focus on health if they are unwilling to do so voluntarily. Such comments in the past helped shape the recommendations suggesting legislation might be necessary in the near future, that came from three separate reports, including one part-funded by the Kennel Club. Many such comments were (and are) routinely sent on to those working on the reports and those in government. :)

The fact that the ones who post things like this have held various positions such as club health representative is perfect -- it just drives home the point of the need for legislation and outside supervision even more forcefully with those who will be advising on the creation of any needed legislation. And the legislators of course find such statements very insightful to the thinking of club breeders too. :thmbsup:

You would think other club members might want such people muzzled by now though, as they only damage the clubs, the KC and the general reputation of breeders -- even a club PR fund cannot paper over the damage. :rolleyes:

Bet
26th March 2010, 10:52 AM
The more you read about the Post I mentioned on another Cavalier List about the UK CKCS CLUB Forth Coming AGM,the more it must Shock the Lovers of the Cavalier Breed to be being told that the direction of the Club could be changed .

Surely the UK CKCS CLUB only wants First and Foremost the Health of our Cavalier Breed to be improved,I would think that whether you are a Cavalier Breeder or a Cavalier Pet Owner, the way for our Club to go is to get the Cavalier Breed to have Future.

If it is Crucial Decision for Cavaliers not to be given their Title of Champion if they have not been Screened for Heart Disease and Syringomyelia as has been Proposed , if as I understood the Post to mean ,this is a Decision that could be being passed by Fanatics.

I really do hope that I have read the Post wrong.

Does it mean that any-body in the Cavalier World who cares about the Health is Fanatical, that as the Post further Stated ,the Fanatics should not be allowed to Plot the Course of UK CKCS CLUB.

This coming from a Cavalier Health Represenative, I would think for the Lovers of the Cavalier Breed,a leaves a Lot To Be Desired.!!

Bet

Karlin
26th March 2010, 12:52 PM
FORMER health representative. :thmbsup:

The Rouge Princess
26th March 2010, 01:50 PM
I agree 100% with this.I feel that this should be the way.I don't feel as though there is enough emphasis - currently - on healthy winners at the moment.Though I understand Crufts, this year were aiming for a "healthy, happy dogs" strategy, which can only be a good thing.

I believe if this was mandatory, a lot more people would be aware of the health challenges facing Cavaliers.IMO too much emphasis is put on winning and not what is,imo,the most important point which is the health,well being and longevity of this wonderful breed.

Rouge

x

Sabby
26th March 2010, 03:01 PM
It was the KC at Crufts what said that only happy and healthy dogs go in the show ring and win. The KC was repeating the same thing over and over again. So are we talking double standards again? You canít tell if a Cavalier has MVD or SM by just looking at them unless they are already so bad that it is noticeable. So yes no Cavalier should be a Champion if they are not screened for MVD or SM as Champions produce puppies. And itís the Fanatics that buy the puppies and end up with huge vet bills and the heartbreak.

Margaret C
26th March 2010, 05:24 PM
There are a great many proposals on the Cavalier Club AGM agenda this year. It makes interesting reading.

My guess is that most of the health related items will be defeated by the same people who overturned the decision to include the SM breeding guidelines last year.
They will turn up in force and unfortunately the less belligerent members, who do not want confrontation and intimidation, will stay at home.

So, what are some of the other proposals? ............

The Cavalier Club committee are making yet another attempt to get the SM guidelines added to their Code of Good Practice.

There is a proposal aimed at stopping me from being elected again to the committee..

There is one, submitted by me, proposing that all committee members set an example by agreeing to breed according to the guidelines while they are serving on the committee.

I also proposed that stud dog and brood bitch trophies were only awarded to health tested cavaliers, and that as the Club has a far flung national membership, postal votes should be allowed for AGM proposals.

There was another proposal asking that committee members should sign an undertaking not divulge any confidential information.
I would support that proposal, as long as the confidential information had been given and received as part of that member's committee duties,

If the proposers are trying to suggest that nothing about cavaliers or cavalier owners should be mentioned outside of the closed circle of breeders and breed clubs, then that is completely wrong and I would disagree.

Despite the proposers' libellous attempt to link this proposal to my interview on the film Pedigree Dogs Exposed, the information I gave there was not in any way confidential, but was something that was discussed openly and widely with many exhibitors, at more than one show, by the owner of the dog concerned.
The owner had herself spread the information about the dog's SM status in early 2005.

To try and argue, as some of the more intellectually challenged have done, that widely known and widely discussed information suddenly transform into confidential issues when they reach committee members ears is plainly ridiculous.

Bet
26th March 2010, 07:19 PM
Yes Margaret, I have also received my Communication from the UK CKCS CLUB.

Just wonder if it will only be a matter of time when there will be 25 names gathered to have me Kicked out of the CKCS CLUB.

Having read the Communication, I would think that there is a Stich Up Job in Progress.

Those of you who know the back-Ground to some of the Proposals will understand what I am getting at.!!!

To start with ,why does the Ex Cavalier Health Official ,which I believe to be the case now,Post on another Cavalier List, seeming to be giving the Impression of wanting Cavalier Champions to be given their Title without having the Proof that they had no signs of Syringomyelia or MVD .

How Back-Ward Thinking can you get.

I think I am right in mentioning, would this be the Same Ex Health Official who on another List was Discrediting in a Post ,Mr Simon Swift, the CKCS CLUB Cardiologist,a few months ago.

There are many,many Cavalier Pet Owners in the CKCS CLUB, who I am sure agree with the Health Proposals being Proposed getting passed, and hope that the certain Few Cavalier Breeder Mafia, do not Thwart this from happening .

If these Health Proposals are not Passed, then we True Lovers of our Cavalier Breed will know who to blame, ,and will have to come to the Conclusion that those Certain Few just really don't have the Interests of the Future of the Cavalier Breed.

Bet

sins
26th March 2010, 07:41 PM
There is a proposal aimed at stopping me from being elected again to the committee..
http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/sCo_huhsign.gif
How's that gonna work then??
Sins

Margaret C
26th March 2010, 09:20 PM
There is a proposal aimed at stopping me from being elected again to the committee.
. http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/sCo_huhsign.gif
How's that gonna work then??
Sins

The proposal is that....................

"Any Officer or Committee Member who is removed from his/her position on the Committee by the decision of the membership at a General Meeting (Annual or Special) or in any other circumstances, is ineligible to stand for a position of Officer or Committee Member for a period of five years, ie the period of membership required to entitle a member to stand for an Officer or Committee position"

I am the only person ever removed in such a manner.

I was at a regional club AGM last weekend and was told my proposal that all committee members should lead by example, and agree to breed to the Club's breeding guidelines while on the committee, were against breeder's human rights. It was said to be undemocratic, that there should be equality, that it was hard to get committee members so should not discourage them ( from irresponsible breeding presumably? ) and that the guidelines were not cast iron rules.

( One of the committee members confessed he had actually gone as far as to read the guidelinescl*p, and the secretary gave us a rather pompous lecture on how discrimination is the scourge of society :slp: )

The KC will have to agree the proposal to block my election if it is passed. I wonder if it could be said to be discriminatory and against my human rights?icon_nwunsure

sins
26th March 2010, 09:52 PM
The KC will have to agree the proposal to block my election if it is passed. I wonder if it could be said to be discriminatory and against my human rights?icon_nwunsure
Not sure Margaret,but if passed,it'll sure as heck keep Dogworld in headlines for about six months...:lol:
Should take the heat off the GSD breeders though, and put cavaliers back under the microscope again.
Just what every breeder needs to see....more negative headlines and puppy buyers running for the hills.
Sheer genius.....
*puts away Crystal ball*

Sins

Fifer
27th March 2010, 12:20 AM
The proposal is that....................

"Any Officer or Committee Member who is removed from his/her position on the Committee by the decision of the membership at a General Meeting (Annual or Special) or in any other circumstances, is ineligible to stand for a position of Officer or Committee Member for a period of five years, ie the period of membership required to entitle a member to stand for an Officer or Committee position"

I am the only person ever removed in such a manner.

The KC will have to agree the proposal to block my election if it is passed. I wonder if it could be said to be discriminatory and against my human rights?icon_nwunsure

I think it could, it would look as if they are changing the constitution deliberately to keep you out.


I was at a regional club AGM last weekend and was told my proposal that all committee members should lead by example, and agree to breed to the Club's breeding guidelines while on the committee, were against breeder's human rights. It was said to be undemocratic, that there should be equality, that it was hard to get committee members so should not discourage them ( from irresponsible breeding presumably? ) and that the guidelines were not cast iron rules.
Err yes and where exactly do the dogs rights come in? The right to live healthy etc lives where is that in all this? AND if it's so difficult to get and retain committee members why deliberately block you from standing?

Bet
27th March 2010, 10:40 AM
If I could say , I think there was a Post mentioning about the CLUB's AGM ,and DOG WORLD being kept busy for awhile.

I do hope that more than DOG WORLD will be being kept busy ,that the other News-Papers will get to hear about a Proposal being Proposed ,that before a Cavalier is made up to be a Champion ,they have had to be Health Screened First for SM and MVD... and that if this Blocked then the Public will be made aware of this Fact.

Surely this Proposal must succeed .

The UK CKCS CLUB last year announced that MVD was the CLUB's NO 1 Health Priority .

Also that I believe that it will shortly be being announced by the Kennel Club that the Accredited Breeders will have Mandatory Health Testing for MVD and SM for the Cavalier Breed

I think we all know the MVD Figures ,50% will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of Age, .

That recently around 60 Cavaliers were MRI Scanned in Australia, not because they were showing Symptoms SM , they had no signs of the SM Disease.

The Shocking Result was that 50% did have SM.

Also now Judges ,this is instructions from the Kennel Club, can withdraw Dogs from Competing at Shows ,if the Judge feels the Dog has a Health Problem.

With the Two Serious Health Problems afflicting Cavaliers ,and cannot be being discovered without a Health Test, then surely it is a Very Small thing to ask that the Proposal not to award Cavaliers the Status of being called a Champion without having been Health Tested is Passed.

If it is Blocked ,then many of us Broken Hearted Owners of Cavaliers who have suffered from these Conditions, will never forgive those responsible for not allowing this Proposal to take place. .

Bet

Bet
28th March 2010, 12:04 PM
Could I get back again to the Forth Coming UK CKCS AGM , I have just been asked by ......I will mention no Names, only to say , by an influential Member of the Cavalier Club , to point out to the List Memers here , that the Kennel Club owns the the right's to awarding CC's and the resulting Title of Champion to Dogs.

I would like to point that this excuse surely does not apply to our Cavalier Breed.

All that is needed ,and I think many Cavalier Pet Owners who watched the Suffering of their Cherished Cavalier Pets, will agree with this.

Why cannot the Proposal be Passed at the AGM, only in Respect of our Cavalier Breed ,who as the World Wide Public is now aware of , the TWO Diseases Decimating Cavaliers, SM and MVD, that no Cavalier is given the Title of Champion unless they have been Health Checked for SM and MVD.

Then the UK CKCS CLUB ,can contact the Kennel Club, who is very well aware of these Two Serious Problems in the Cavalier,with the Request that because this Proposal has been hopefully passed at the AGM, that Cavaliers are a Special Case.

Or are some Cavalier Breeders not wanting this to happen ,and the only way is by saying the word has to come from the Kennel Club.

If the Cavalier Club does not at least pass this Proposal ,and contact the Kennel Club about it, I would think that many Cavalier Pet Owners will be asking some Pertinant Questions.

Bet

Bet
28th March 2010, 02:58 PM
I feel I must answer after receiving E- Mail sent to me this Morning ,now after reading a Post on the CC List saying that on this List ,that it is rather Premature to discuss any Proposals about the Forth Coming AGM.

I will repeat again ,that I was asked to put the Point of view about this on the Cavalier Talk List, specifically this List was mentioned, by an Influential Member of the Cavalier Club,that was why I continued with this Debate, and my Views about why I think the Proposal about not awarding Cavaliers their Champions' Title unless they have been Health Tested for SM and MVD shoud be agreed to.

I am glad I was told to put the request about this on this List, now we can all understand if there are objections to this Proposal ,we Heart Broken Cavalier Owners who have lost our Cherished Cavaliers because of MVD and SM, can ask the question why was this Proposal not Passed ,and to be considered by the Kennel Club.

Hopefully we will get an answer ,as to why the Proposal ,if not Passed the reason why, particularly when the Kennel Club could be contacted and involved in a decision about it.

Bet

Bet
4th April 2010, 01:50 PM
This was Published by the UK CKCS CLUB 1991 in their BREED ADVANCEMENT STUDY.

I think it is Relevant to the Proposal being Proposed at the Forth Coming CKCS CLUB AGM,that before a Cavalier is made up to be a Champion ,they must be Health Tested.

;IT IS OF ABSOLUTELY PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE THAT THE TOP STUD DOGS AND THE TOP BROOD BITCHES ARE TESTED.

INFLUENTIAL STOCK MUST BE TESTED ,IF NOT, THEN LITTLE PROGRESS CAN BE MADE.;Page 34 of the CKCS CLUB Breed Advancement Study.

As I said ,this was sent to CKCS CLUB MEMBERS in a BOOKLET ,to 1,600 CLUB Members in Britain, and 360 to Club Members in 24 Countries Abroad .

Making an Overall Total of 1960.

Some Club Members even requested an Additional Copy to give to their Vets.

It was mentioned in the Booklet ,that it was disappointing to note that some Cavalier Club Breeders who produce many Puppies ,regularly send Stock Abroad ,have Stud Dogs that are frequently used,and also enjoy Regular Successes at Championship Shows ,failed to respond to a Questionaire ,also included in this comment , was that ,there were a Number of Judges who had Failed to respond.

That was just on 20 years ago, is it a Case ,that for the Health of Our Cavalier Breed .

IT WAS EVER THUS!!!

I will ask again , why is it impossible for the Proposal to be Passed , then the CKCS CLUB Committee go to the KENNEL CLUB ,and ask them to allow , for the sake of the Future of the Cavalier Breed ,for this Proposal for Cavaliers to be Allowed.

Surely there are still not some Cavalier Breeders who will Thwart this way forward for the Health of Cavaliers by not allowing this to happen.

Or are Their EGOS at Stake here ,and not what should be ,their Primary Concern, the Health of our Beloved Cavaliers.

Bet
4th April 2010, 07:59 PM
I am not sure about this, this is probably the wrong Thread to be Posting this Information, but here goes anyway.

It has just been Posted on the CC List, about the Encouraging Figures from the Cavaliers examined by Mr Simon Swift ,Cardiologist at the Recent Cavalier Championship Show.

But are they as good as has been indicated on the CC LIST

There were 176 Cavaliers Examined
.
In that number ,were 136 Cavaliers aged up to between 4-5 years of age.

16 - 1 Year

48 between 1-2 Years.

35 between 2-3 years

26 between 3-4 years

11 between 4-5 years.

At the UK CKCS CLUB's AGM last year Mr S. Swift , said that about 50% of all Cavaliers have a Murmur by the time they are 5 years old .

He also mentioned that the Database has now over 8,667 Cavaliers who have been Heart Tested on it .

That the Database suggests that 50% of Cavaliers develope Murmurs at a Later age than the 5 Years suggested earlier.

This difference could be because of a reflection of the Selection of Cavaliers Presented who have been brought to the Cavalier Shows,.

This my thought about this, would many Cavalier Breeders bring their Cavaliers to a Cavalier Show who were over 5 years of age, probably not.

Mr Swift further said ,that comparing 1991 and 2009 ,most Cavaliers under 5 were murmur free ,however Most Cavaliers over 6 had a Murmur .

There was little change in the Incidence over 18 years.

He went on to say that ,Disappointingly few Cavaliers are Presented at 5-6 years of age which is the Time that Testing is Critical according to the Cavaliers' Breeding Program.

Do the latest Cavalier Figures from the CKCS Championship Show,fit in with what Mr S. Swift said at last years Club AGM ,so really is the Cavalier Breed any further forward in the fight against their MVD Problem.

Bet