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daisysmom
7th April 2010, 03:03 AM
I dont know what to do, if she escapes which is alot she just wont come back when i call her.
She has my nerves shot to bits. every time the hall door opens she bolts.

She was very nearly killed on sunday. We were visting my mil, daisy got out the gate ran down the terace straight onto the busy main road. I dont know how she didnt get knocked down but it came very close with 2 cars coming in different directions having to skid to a holt. i dont know how there wasnt an accident either as its a very busy road.

What am i going to do. Im only short of locking her up. She has even started to get out of her harness.

Also tonight she got hold of a pen an was biting it by the time i got to her she was chocking, i didnt know what to do, i was screaming for dh at the same time as hitting her on the back and panicking. Just as well dh was there as he just shoved his fingers in a got the sharp bit of the pen that was stuck.
She manages to get at everything no matter where it is, she like a cat the way she climbs we call her 007.

We are constantly chasing her to get stuf out of her mouth.
Iv never seen a dog like her shes mad.

sorry for the long post, just had to get it off my chest.

*Pauline*
7th April 2010, 09:40 AM
I won't advise on the gate being left open after Dylan escaped this weekend! I'm just glad you got Daisy back. How did you catch her in the end?

With regards to the other things she keeps getting hold off, dare I say it, tidy up! :lol:

Sorry :flwr:

Brian M
7th April 2010, 09:42 AM
Hi

Its all in the name "DAISY":)

Karlin
7th April 2010, 12:32 PM
A couple of things here -- or you will have a tragedy before long :(. If she is this unreliable, she hasn't been adequately trained on recall (and doesn't come easy -- this takes daily effort and daily positive practice/reinforcement all through her life but should be fun to do for both :) ) -- have you done a good rewards-based obedience class yet? If not -- that should be a number one urgent priority. She hasn't earned the ability to NOT be kept closely managed and she is getting too much unsupervised freedom (also the pen incident would indicate this -- that was a very close shave for you and could have cost you thousands to resolve at the vets). Is she still under a year? She sounds like a normal if hyper puppy, or a very active adult -- but not abnormal behaviour if she hasn't had much training and doesn't have enough to keep her brain busy :).

You will need to approach this through two prongs -- careful daily management as you (of course!) value keeping her alive, and good training with daily practice (a key responsibility of every dog owner -- a dog doesn't know to return on recall. Just knowing her name isn't recall; that requires a lot of training and work and is a critical command, as you can well understand!).

I'd invest in some baby gates and a puppy xpen with sides at least three feet tall, to manage her. If you are visiting, I'd bring the xpen or keep her on a lead the whole time and tethered to a belt loop or belt (do NOT use an extensa lead -- just get a 4-6 foot lead so she can move around a bit). Keep hall doors closed. If there are small kids opening doors, then stop that by putting a latch high up out of reach so that children need an adult to open doors for them and cannot let the dog out.. the exact same as would be done if you had a toddler. I always advise thinking of a dog as a toddler -- you simply cannot expect a toddler to mind itself, not wander out an open door, not to run into the street. A responsible adult must mind a very young child. The same for a dog in the house -- especially with a dog that is prone to running outside.

You need to be able to train her to sit immediately on command, to return, to wait. I'd train her to sit and wait before the front door every single time she is going out and wait to be released before you go out. Also, if she were in a puppy pen, she won't be able to bolt for doors when kids are around opening doors, or have access to something like a pen. If those items are kept off the floor and low tables, she lso won;t get to them (all these things are frustrating but I am afraid, a part of daily management for every one of us when we own dogs, just as you do not leave scissors, knives or matches lying around when you have small children in the house. You have to dog proof a house when you get a dog and change how things are done and what is left lying around).

All of us will likely experience the rare crisis of a carefully watched dog getting out, but this really must be the the rarest exception to the daily norm of careful guardianship. Cavaliers in particular have absolutely no road sense and are fearless -- it is is the very breed description used by breeders! -- so will happily run right in front of a car. That is why this breed in particular needs to be controlled and/or on a lead *at all times* without any possibility of sneaking out of a garden, or running out a door.

I'd recommend downloading Ian Dunbar's free book After You Get your Puppy (search for the link on the site as I have posted in a hundred times! :lol:) and use that to start your training programme and for management ideas. Also there are many good suggestions on the training sites pinned at the top of the training forum, any of which should be helpful. Read the "if you only read one thing' post pinned there. :) But you also need an organised class or your dog will not learn to respond when there are distractions around.

If she is slipping her harness, see a trainer about appropriately adjusting it or try a front clip harness (eg Easywalk or Sense-ible)where you can attach the lead to the front ring AND the collar at the same time for extra control and safety. I do this with my Lily.

She also sounds very active and bright -- and perhaps a dog without enough to do at home -- do you use active toys like stuffed Kongs? Treat balls? Does she get at least an hour of walks and active play with people --not on her own -- every day? A chance for regular supervised play with ther dogs?). If she is an adult dog with this level of energy I am afraid you will need to put the time in to working her brain as well as her body (my Jaspar is like this and has not tired even at age 6.5 -- they are not easy dogs when they are bright, very active and demanding. They can be wonderfully rewarding for the right owner but take a LOT of time and effort). This kind of dog needs at least an hour of active work -- agility, obedience, games -- daily. Also: consider whether she is the right dog for your family, a much harder decision, but if the choice is her staying alive or not because she is more active and needy of supervision and daily activity than can be given to her -- then surely that must be a consideration as you will end up losing her tragically rather than seeing her happily and safely rehomed. I know these are all big things to consider but from the sounds of it, the situation is fairly urgent and worrisome, and her survival is becoming dependent on taking some definitive action.

Kate H
7th April 2010, 01:01 PM
It sounds as if you have a Cavalier with a fertile brain! So - keep the brain occupied. If Daisly chews something she shouldn't that could harm her, take it from her but replace it with a toy or chew that she IS allowed - don't just remove all the fun things. Give her plenty of exercise on a long lead, with your pockets stuffed with her favourite treats and call her to you regularly for a big reward and lots of fuss. If you're away from home, keep her on lead and teach her to sit beside you quietly - not free to roam around looking for mischief or open gates. Encourage her to run after her toys and bring them back to you to be thrown again, or play any other games she enjoys. Training is mostly a matter of constant repitition of the behaviour you want and a reward when she does it, and I second all the advice Karlin gave. You might also consider a puppy pen with a top, so that Daisy can't climb out, then you can be sure that she is safe when you can't keep an eye on her.

My Oliver came to me at a year old with a reputation for climbing over the garden wall and disappearing into the Yorkshire countryside for hours on end. He's never tried it with me - between obedience training and competitions, being a PAT dog, long country walks, constant company and holidays at the seaside, his life is much too interesting to bother about running off! Though he is NEVER allowed out of the front door off lead or let off on an open space anywhere near traffic - he can still run around on a long lead, and he is a particularly fearless Cavalier!

Training your Cavalier builds up a great relationship, and with a bit of time and trouble, you can start really enjoying Daisy instead of worrying about her.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Rubysmum
7th April 2010, 01:39 PM
just want to say good luck . ruby tends to want to keep her eye on me at all times and wont go out the door unless with me -i dont count on it though ;) i have tried to make me the most exciting thing in her life and think its working we have a close bond . i do have to make sure there are no little things lying around and as im a childminder it can be very difficult as the toddlers drop stuff all the time but she is beginning to drop on command and i also make sure she has her own toys-its hilarious to see her rooting through her little box ..bum in the air lol . they arent the docile couch potatoes they are sometimes described as and they are really intelligent dogs which means we need to be one step ahead of them !!

jacies
7th April 2010, 02:33 PM
Chaos is just as bad at running away if she gets the chance and now is not let of her extending lead. Even so I have lost her a couple of times when she pulled the lead out of my hand when getting her out of the car because she had seen a cat in the area. Luckily I live on a quiet road and also luckily her lead got tangled round a bush in someone's garden.
I agree with all the previous advice and would also add that a while ago I met a lady walking her cavalier in a little contraption with wheels on it because he was paralysed in the back legs. When I spoke to her she said he had been run over and that the vet said the top number of dogs he had seen for being run over was the Cavalier. Later I saw she was advertising the wheels for sale.:(

Karlin
7th April 2010, 03:19 PM
Judy if you take her out on an extensa lead I'd advise giving this up for the reason you note -- these are notoriously dangerous leads to use anywhere except in the safest areas of a park far from traffic, as dogs so easily can pop the handle out of your hand. :yikes Trainers generally tell owners to avoid these leads for walks on roads or for any situation in which you need tokeep control of your dog. I'd get a nice little three or four foot normal lead to take her to the car etc and place the looped bit over your wrist so you hold the straight bit -- this is virtually pullproof and very safe. Puppies are especially risky on Extensas as they can suddenly pull and run in different directions. Many dogs will then bolt as they are terrified of the dragging sound of the handle part which whizzes up right behind them. :(

Extensas have also been known to throttle a dog or cut off circulation to a limb if the dog gets entangled, as can easily happen.

In general: they are poor leads from every safety consideration. They are great for teaching recall though in a safe area of a park or beach etc. :)

Daisy's Mom
7th April 2010, 07:31 PM
Just wanted to clarify that the original poster is not me -- I'm Daisy's Mom, she is daisysmom.

Not that my Daisy would be above bolting out a door and running onto the street, believe me! Thank goodness that we live on an extremely un-busy residential street because she has gotten out the front door a couple of times and the horrible sinking feeling/immediate panic is one of the worst feelings I have ever had.

I'm glad your Daisy wasn't hurt. Good luck with training her not to bolt out of an open door and on her recall. Daisy is pretty good about A, but not usually so good about B (unless she sees I have a treat.)

Zoe bowie
7th April 2010, 07:45 PM
There is nothing worse than when this happens! It only happened once to me, Georgia decided to bolt out the door, chasing her was pointless as she saw this as a game, and seeing as she had permanent ear infections, calling her was pointless...that is until you called 'TREATS' then she came bolting passed me, and into her bed waiting for her treat-little minx! Thankfully we lived on a very quiet cul de sac, so she couldn't go too far.

I am so glad that you got her back safely :-)

jacies
7th April 2010, 08:22 PM
Judy if you take her out on an extensa lead I'd advise giving this up for the reason you note -- these are notoriously dangerous leads to use anywhere except in the safest areas of a park far from traffic, as dogs so easily can pop the handle out of your hand.:)

I agree Karlin they can be dangerous but I don't walk Chaos on the road on this lead, I only use it at the lake where I walk the dogs, it was just that she saw a cat as I was lifting them out of the car. I am now more careful and look out for cats first. Usually all three dogs are very good and will sit in the back of the car until I lift them out. All the dogs have nice long normal leads if I take them anywhere else. Her extending lead is not the kind like a thin cord but is a thicker type of canvas and is only attached to her harness not a collar. Unfortunately she has proved impossible to train to recall and also I have to try and keep her out of the lake and away from the geese droppings so she is never let off now.:(

Tania
7th April 2010, 09:19 PM
I am totally paranoid about our dogs making a bolt for it even though they are both quite well behaved, they can be unpredictable when you least expect.
We have a baby gate near the door that is used the most. We also have a a couple of freestanding guards that we use for the bottom of the stairs or to restrict anywhere we don't want them to go.

Daisy sounds extremely bright and would probably respond to gentle training.

We take our dogs ro socialisation class every week, it is based on clicker and reward training and gentle methods are used. We have been doing this for quite a while now and when new puppies come up from puppy class, we have to go back over everything, sometimes I get a bit bored but the dogs are stimulated, excitied and gradually they have perfected their sit, stand, downs, recalls and wait. We also have wooden puzzles for them so while we are out we will load them with bits of carrot or dried fish, this keeps them busy for a while. I think you have to treat Daisy like a child just keep everything out of reach, I have heard terrible stories where a dog has gone into the owners handbags and chewed up a packet of pills.

daisysmom
8th April 2010, 01:35 AM
Thank very much for the replys and great advice.
Iv already signed us up for 6 week course with dublin spca.

I had been looking out for a class even before this as her recall is VERY bad and i was already nervious.
She does not listen at all onless she wants to, she will do something she asked if you have a treat but each time we try to faze it out shes back to not listening.

But i tell yeh she is very smart we have trained her to ring the bells at the door to go pooty as she never barks and it was the only way for her to let us know he needs to go, then as soon as she comes back in she sits and waits for her treat if she went and doesnt ait if she hasnt gone.

The recall has been my biggest worry and now the fact that she can get out of her harness.

Daisy is almost 7 months and has always been hyper we even changed her food a couple of times to see if it was the high protein.

there has been alot of upheavel at home the last few weeks and she hasnt been getting the one to one she deserves and i think she has sensed all the stress at home as shes off her food the last few days also.
But we are starting to get back on track fingers crossed.

I alway thought that girls were easier than boys ( have 4 sons so it was time for a girl) only joking!!!
She had to have been a cat in previous life with all the climbing she does. Its so funny when there is a knock at the door everyone shouting watch daisy, or wait dont open it yet its like a carry on film :)
Then constanly saying no daisy, down daisy and having to remind the boys not to leave stuff lieing around or even within her climbing range 007 doesnt have a patch on her. God i make it sound like a mad house, Well supose it is sometimes :eek:

Please feel free to keep sharing advice with me as iv never had pets so im learning ( on not in some cases) all the time. And thanks so much. And fingers crossed i will have a vey obedient dog well behaved dog at the end of our 6 wk course, ( wonder would it work for the kids)icon_nwunsure

jld
8th April 2010, 02:21 AM
She is still very young. She can be trained, but it will take a lot of work , and consistency. I took my Dixie to obedience classes from the time she was 5 mo. old. We took obedience classes every week for 18 consecutive weeks. And, we worked with her 1 on 1 during the week. Then, we started agility. So, she has basically been in some kind of class her whole life (she is now 3 years old). I still don't trust her not to run off if she sees anything moving (rabbit, bird, squirrel), but I do practice recall with her still. Good luck. She is still just a baby, and she sounds like she is very smart. She willl learn, but you have to be committed to the training. PS. I always keep her on a lead for walks. Too many distractions on a walk for her where we live. Also, the command "Leave it" is one of the most important commands a dog can learn. It has been a life saver for me with my two dogs....you just never know what they will put in their mouths.

Karlin
8th April 2010, 01:06 PM
At seven months, you would not be able to expect a good recall anyway -- she is only a puppy. It's kind of the equivalent of expecting a three year old to always come when called. :)

Also keep in mind that in 6 weeks you definitely will not have an obedient, well trained dog -- but I am sure this will be clear as the class progresses :lol:. A class gives you the tools with which to start the daily work on training and daily practice/reinforcement that is needed. In many ways a class is more training for owners on how to train, than training for the dog.

If you have a really active dog, she will be a lifelong challenge and will need the extra time and work that a very bright, demanding child would also need -- just lying around and getting a walk daily and some interaction with family won't be enough. Such demanding dogs do need to have both brain and body exercised -- so something like weekly agility class or a daily workout with an obedience routine plus a good hour of exercise is likely to be necessary. I'd recommend getting some interactive toys such as a kong and please, please download Dr Dunbar's book, as it will go through all these things and also give you a sense of what to expect, how to work with various issues, etc.

I'm not sure who runs the Dublin DSPCA classes, but I'd call and ask if they use leash corrections or if it is rewards based. If leash corrections, I'd cancel the class. I am pretty sure they are rewards based.

If you want to consider a Sense-ible harness (what I recommend and my trainer friends recommend for dogs and for training) you can get one from Dog Training Ireland (dogtrainingireland.ie) over near Blanchardstown. I'd also get a kong of the right size and consider a treat ball rather than bowl for feeding her daily, as this will give her a challenge and workout at the same time as her meal.

Just for comparison: Jaspar, my intense dog, keeps me active all day long. He does have a doze but he will want an hour or so of play (often throwing a toy down the stairs for him to retrieve for example), or 30 minutes of training or a dog game toy, plus an hour walk in the park including fetch games, or agility classes -- he is a handful compared to my other four. But he is also my favourite.

Male dogs are often more easy going and laid back than females. But all dogs are individuals so that is just a general point with lots of variations by individual dog.

I'd talk to your trainer about training a dog not to run out the door -- eg to always sit before a door and wait to be invited through.

Otherwise (or at least until she is thoroughly trained and reliable and reaches adulthood) you may need to put a babygate across the front door or hall door or an xpen arrangement, or something as really, if she has had this many close calls she is very much at risk and needs some sort of barrier.

daisysmom
8th April 2010, 11:39 PM
thanks very much for the replys, karlin i did download ian dunbars book now its just a matter of getting time to read it through and thanks for all your great advice.

And there was me thinking that a puppy would be a lot less work than a baby!!!!! Silly me. Ah but she is my baby girl, my youngest boys keep saying shes their sister, see told you it was a mad house :o

On the feeding, i should get a special toy and not feed her from the bowl from then on is that right?
I have 2 kongs that i give her if she will be alone for a while.

Right im off to do some reading and reserch!!!!

Cathy Moon
10th April 2010, 11:02 PM
After you and Daisy finish up her odedience classes, I would recommend pre-agility or agility training - weeks and weeks of it!

Agility will make you and Daisy become a team; believe me if you keep at it she will want to pay attention to you and please you, even when there are distractions. :thmbsup:

Geordie and I were an agility team years ago, until we realized he had beginning symptoms of SM, and even today he always pays attention to me and comes when called. There was a time when I thought it wouldn't be possible!