View Full Version : What Do You Think?

7th April 2010, 10:06 AM
I have just received the latest Edition of Dogstoday Magazine.

Our Cavalier Breed was mentioned ,and I quote.

This was a Breed invented at the Crufts Dog Show in response to a Prize offered by an American called Roswell Eldridge.

Thanks to a Bad Gene Pool at the Start ,and the Incredible Inbreeding that followed, (even Mrs A.Pitt the CKCS Founder had written in a CLUB Magazine in 1957, about the Inbreeding that was being carried out by the Cavalier Breeders at the time when the Cavalier Breed was being created, that no thought had been given to the Future Health of Cavaliers,),the Article contiues with the Statement ,that because of this ,more than 80% of TO-DAYS' CAVALIERS end up with Serious Heart Problems , while more tha THIRD are thought to have a GENETIC BRAIN DISORDER affecting the Nervous System.

The Article concludes by saying with this Question ,with this level of those Defects ,has the time not come because of the Cavaliers' thin history ,Sweep The Breed aside aside ,and Start Again.

In The Editorial ,the Cavalier Breed is also mentioned ,I am quoting again about the Poor Cavaliers ,who are lucky if they Dodge a 50% chance of an Early Death due to Heart Defects ,or can fall Foul of an Incredibly Painful End due to their Skulls being too Small for their Brains.

These are two separate mentions about our Cavalier Breed.

I would think that unfortunately this is the impression the public now has of the Cavalier Breed.

My thoughts about this view.

Surely there will be enough Cavaliers around to be able to give our Cavaliers a Fresh Start.


7th April 2010, 11:18 AM
I would disagree with the article, myself; though it is one perspective and perhaps will be eventually necessary anyway given how things are going and very low level of voluntary breeder support for even the best existing research programs aimed to give breeders tools to deal with these health issues (the genome research and EBVs).

However, I think there's good evidence now that breeders can take the best scanning dogs they have -- especially those whose parents also scan well and who are rescanned when over 5-6 to give a betterpicture of risk of SM developing -- and breed away from SM to greatly lessen incidence and severity (this is emerging from Lee Pieterse's work with griffins and the Dutch breeder's work with cavaliers). In addition Rod has posted an article noting research is showing the ability (yet again) to breed away from MVD *IF* breeders use the MVD protocol and conduct meaningful testing on their dogs (not, as so many of the UK breeders and irish breeders do, using vets for their heart screening, which is inadequate).

So I would not think, given evidence and given discussions with the leading researchers, that starting over to reconstruct the breed is necessary. A proper international health programme aiming for diversity and heart/SM clear dogs should be achievable. Problem is, breeders have not shown any willingness to work even with the easy to follow MVD protocol so at the moment, I don;t have much confidence that anything will happen unless it is mandated through legislation.

7th April 2010, 11:50 AM
Yes Karlin , your Thoughts are My Ones as well,it's up to many of the Cavalier Breeders to get their act to-gether and give the Public proof that the Health in Cavaliers is improving

I once said this to a CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE Member, about 15 years ago, if you do not get your Finger Out ,this was about the Cavaliers' MVD Problem ,you won't have a Cavalier Breed left.

Now there is the SM Problem afflicting the Breed, and all the CC List , with it's most Vociferous Cavalier Breeder on it ,in my opinion, can go on about, is what was said by the UK CKCS CLUB Chairman about a year ago in a Letter which was put on the Club Web Site. The Saying from the Much Loved TV Series ,DAD'S ARMY ,here in Britain, comes to mind , which was so much quoted by Corporal Jones,I won't repeat it ,but I am sure many of you who watched the Series ,will know the Quotation I am referring to. !!!!


7th April 2010, 02:30 PM
I really don't understand the infighting that seems to be rife in the cavalier world.
I found this site looking for information on buying a cavalier puppy last year but unfortunately my cocker spaniel got sick and I didn't think it fair to bring a pup home. I was thinking of getting a pup this year now that I can think of replacing my beloved Ben but to be quite honest I am one of the general puplic who think the breed is full of heart problems, inbreeding, and now SM too. I had a cavalier 20 yrs ago, knew nothing of these problems, had a wonderful healthy dog but to be honest now I wouldn't know where to start and who to believe in getting a sound healthy pet.

8th April 2010, 09:57 AM
Scottie ,

I have given some thought as to how to answer your Question about not understanding the In-Fighting in the Cavalier World.

I don't think it's In-Fighting in the Cavalier World , ..

What has happened is that for many ,many Years a Good number of Cavalier Breeders would not listen to us Broken Hearted Cavalier Owners when we tried to tell them about the Health Problems.

We sure had to suffer Abuse from some of them when we Dared to ask if they were Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock.

I have my Experience about that happening.

Then along came Margaret Carter who was removed by the way ,from the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE, ,for being Brave enough to appear on a TV Program called Pedigree Dogs Exposed ,because she had a Cavalier who was found to be Suffering from SM.

Also another lady ,Carol Fowler ,who had Two Cavaliers suffering from the same Disease appeared on the PDE TV Program.

Their actions did not go down well with a Number of Cavalier Breeders ,who up to this time ,I believe
had tried to Sweep both the SM and MVD Problems under the Carpet .

Especially the MVD Cavalier Problem, in 1983, the Cavalier Breeders were warned about this MVD Problem by Dr.P.Darke,the CLUB'S Cardiologist , that was 27 years ago.!!

After the TV PDE Program ,the Public was made aware about those Two Serious Health Problems Afflicting our Cavaliers.

The Cavalier Breeders have been told by the Researchers into them ,how those Problems can be being Tackled ,unfortunately ,there are still some Cavalier Breeders who are dragging their feet about having Mandatory Health Testing for SM and MVD.

I do hope ,you now understand the True Facts about why that there a a good few of us trying to give the Cavalier Breed a Future, and it's not called In-Fighting.


8th April 2010, 10:18 AM
I am one of the general public who think the breed is full of heart problems, inbreeding, and now SM too. I had a cavalier 20 yrs ago, knew nothing of these problems, had a wonderful healthy dog but to be honest now I wouldn't know where to start and who to believe in getting a sound healthy pet.
Hi Scottie,
If you want a cavalier,you should start by making contact with the Scottish cavalier club.
There are some marvellous Breeders in Scotland who take health very seriously and there are quite a few happy CT members here,who have sourced their puppies from Scottish breeders who have rigorously tested their breeding stock and who have been very pleased to discuss all aspect of the breed with prospective customers.
While it's no guarantee that your puppy will be free of any inherited disorder,it vastly increases your chances of obtaining a healthy pup who will be a valued family member for many years.
Whatever fighting goes on or whatever disputes arise between individuals,the only relationship that matters is between you and the person you buy your pet from and the relationship between your family and your new pup.
I find a lot of the arguing and fighting uncomfortable to read, but the truth is that all the rowing and fighting in a strange sort of way,actually shows that people care enough and feel passionate about the breed to dig in and try to work through the problems that the breed has encountered.

8th April 2010, 06:03 PM
I could not believe my eyes just having Read about what is appearing on the CC List at the Moment, that every-one on the List is so Pleasant and Charming!!!!.

Well you could have fooled me.

I have had the F FOUR Letter Word used against me by Norma Inglis.

Another claim was made against me by one of that List's

Members , calling my State of Mind into Question

My complaint is before the UK CKCS CLUB Committee at the Moment,under the CKCS CLUB's CODE OF ETHICS

Part A .General. Pargraph 3.

Which States that Members should not use any Method of Communication whatsoever in any -way that could be considered.



Detrimental to Another Member

Last but not Least I was called a Bolshevik, recently by Gordon Inglis.

All I can say, who are some on the CC List trying to Kid



8th April 2010, 06:33 PM
Bet, I am going to close this thread and ask please that discussions about such disputes be taken privately if you wish -- I do not want this personal dispute to continue in public threads; thanks. :thmbsup: