View Full Version : Kaytee's Great Grandchildren...

22nd April 2010, 10:42 PM
Hi there, I don't know if you remember me but I used to come on a lot about my cavaliers and my little girl Kaytee who sadly left me to be with the angels in Jan this year :(.
I keep in touch with her breeder and today I heard that her grand daughter Kate had given birth to three ruby girls and two ruby boys. I always thought if I ever got another cav it would have to be a black and tan again though I'm finding it hard because kaytee was my ONE and ONLY and I dont know how I will be with a black and tan that isnt her and I know that sounds weird to say.

When I heard about the pups I cried and cried, Kaytee's flesh and blood 5 of them. I then began to wonder if I should get one, how wonderful to be related to my baby, Yet Kaytee had SO many health problems, she had syringlomelia, Dry eye, Heart Murmur, Elongated Soft Pallet and IBD.

I wondered do you know whether it would be really likely that all these problems are carried through to the great grandchildren? I know its possible yet the thought of having one of her family here...I know its a hard question to answer but I wondered if anyone knew what the chances would be and how high the risk is that they could be poorly in time like my little angel was.

Thanks xxx

Margaret C
22nd April 2010, 11:32 PM
I would be very cautious if you do not want to end up with a cavalier with the same problems.
Most of Kaytees health issues are inherited problems and could have been passed down to her descendants.

You would be wise to ask this breeder if she has had the mother health checked for heart and SM? Was the father health checked? Can she show you the certificates for both parents?

I have a list which will explain the certificates and how to read them. Send me an PM if you want a copy.

If the parents have not tested then I would be very worried, considering the problems that are behind the mother of the puppies, and I would question whether this is a breeder that is responsible and caring about the puppies she has bred.

Please think before you buy, even though I can understand how appealing it is to think of owning Kaytee's great grandchild.

If you buy from someone that does not health test, and proves it by showing the certificates, then you will be encouraging her not to bother about making cavaliers a healthier breed.

If you are going to buy another cavalier please buy from someone that cares about their welfare, and make it worth their while to pay out for the health tests.

22nd April 2010, 11:38 PM
It would be highly likely that some of those genes have been carried forward and really: this dog should never have been bred unless extensively health tested. :( I would not ever consider getting a direct descendent of a dog that has had not just one but several -- actually, almost every single one -- of the most serious health issues in the breed. Was Kaytee bred before all these problems were apparent?

Is your breeder aware of all the terrible health issues that Kaytee had during her life, though? If not, please do tell her as a matter of urgency -- doing so would be a kindness and prevent possible future suffering by more dogs -- really, Kaytee's descendant should never have been bred if she has not MRI scanned her, cardiologist and eye tested, etc. If she knew about Kaytee and bred this dog anyway: I can only say I would be utterly appalled someone would risk passing along those genes.

22nd April 2010, 11:46 PM
As far as im aware kate the one that is being used for breeding now hasnt been tested for the problems her grand mother kaytee had, its a hard one as the breeder is a good friend of mine and means a heck of a lot to me though I do worry as kaytee was so poorly, if she wasnt suffering from fainting from her pallet she was coughing from her heart and half the time we didnt know if it was the heart or the pallet causing both these things, she went through SO much yet she was my amazing one in a million baby and it was just the thought of having a part of her with me again. Thank you for your replies xxx

23rd April 2010, 09:47 AM
If I were being totally honest with you I would have to suggest finding a different breeder.I understand that you have a friendship with Kaytee's breeder but I doubt she'd be offended if you bought from someone else,perhaps wait until she has sold her pups before getting another yourself.
I love my cavalier Daisy,she's got the loveliest nature,dearest personality but I would not have a close relative of hers again.I would love to have another with her distinct temperament and lovability.
I have a six month old puppy now and she's completely different to Daisy,she's lively,feisty,athletic and looks nothing like Daisy.But it doesn't matter,I love her to bits too because of her personality and style.Each cavalier will bring something different and something special to your life so don't be afraid that you won't care as much about the next one,believe me,you'll be just as besotted as you were with Kaytee.
Talk to Margaret,she'll point you in the right direction.There are health focused breeders who have litters or who have litters planned.Pick up your phone and talk to a few and see if they might have something that would suit.
You can also speak to the puppy register coordinator in your regional cavalier club.
Don't be afraid to specifically ask for details of breeders who do all the tests.
I hope you'll be able to find the right puppy for you very soon.

23rd April 2010, 12:34 PM
To be honest, I think maybe it's good for you to wait a while before adding any dogs. The death of Kaytee was obviously very traumatic and I would really question whether the time is right for just adding in another dog. Kaytee needs to find her way comfortably and happily into your memory where every thought about her or about adding another dog doesn't induce this much worry, trauma, and fear and this kind of post -- which is very trauma-filled. I know I mentioned this to you a few months back in another thread, but I'd truly think you might find counselling around the issue of the death of Kaytee would be helpful -- there just seems to be an awful lot of anxiety and fear and worry over issues that shouldn't be surfacing like this and are clearly still really dominating your consideration of her and of dogs generally. In that earlier post you were very anxious and worried about your other cavalier and some health signs (what happened with that dog and those issues? What did your vet say?).

Puppies are all individuals and chances are a new puppy even from the same line will not be remotely like Kaytee. A responsible and caring owner who cares about the breed needs to be selecting a puppy based on sound breeding practice, health, responsibility and because *you* are ready. No puppy should carry the burden of being expected to be like a long distant relative.

The fact that you are tempted to perhaps repeat the whole traumatic years and years of health issues must be making you feel a bit concerned about why you would run such a terrible risk. I'd ring Dogs Trust to see if they can recommend directions to go to get some grief counselling. :flwr:

When you are absolutely sure you no onger will worry about whether the pup will be enough like Kaytee or might give you back Kaytee's personality and simply want a new puppy to have a new puppy -- then you will be ready to add a cavalier or perhaps some other breed to your family. I think you already have another cavalier though, don't you? You don't talk very much about this dog (I think only once or twice in the time you've posted to this board?). Maybe it would really be a good time to focus on that dog and share more about that cavalier here :), as surely given Kaytee's health issues, that dog had much less of your time and attention and would really benefit from your extra care and love now? :) A puppy would take all your attention again away from your existing cavalier and maybe it would be good to let time and some counselling heal your pain and focus on loving the dog you already have until you are fully ready for the time and involvement of a new dog.

23rd April 2010, 12:47 PM




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23rd April 2010, 11:00 PM
Thank you everyone for the posts. Yes I have two other cavaliers and a yorkshire terrier cross :) Who I love very much though I never really mentioned them on here as THANKFULLY they are healthy and kaytee had so many issues so I often thought of you all when I needed some advice etc. My other babies are all well and have been health checked recently.

I think one of the other problems I face is since around the age of 14 ive had a poorly dog to care for and even with kaytee and im now 28. I find it so hard not to have that everyday, Yes I have to care for my other dogs just not in the same way, they all have attention and love and though kaytee (I know its bad) was my soul mate I do love the others and give them all they need in life. You are right I do need help to move on before I bring a new baby into our lives.