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pupster mom
4th May 2010, 03:06 PM
Hi, we are new to this forum and I have an older female tri-color K.C.C. AND a female Cavachon(Cavalier X Bichon)who will be age ONE at the end of the month.:o:)

:confused:I am wondering If it is possible for a Cavelier Mix to have inherited SM. I DO realize it is LESS likely but is IT possible?

Thanks, Pupster mom

Tania
4th May 2010, 09:01 PM
I don't know the answer to your question, I am sure someone here will. Welcome to the forum, I look forward to seeing some photos, what is her name?icon_welcome

Brian M
4th May 2010, 09:16 PM
Hello

And most wellcome from us too.:)

EddyAnne
4th May 2010, 11:42 PM
Hi, we are new to this forum and I have an older female tri-color K.C.C. AND a female Cavachon (Cavalier X Bichon) who will be age ONE at the end of the month. :o:)

:confused: I am wondering If it is possible for a Cavelier Mix to have inherited SM. I DO realize it is LESS likely but is IT possible?

On Clare Rusbridge's website she mentions.
"To date the condition has been also reported in King Charles spaniels, Griffon Bruxellois, Chihuahuas, Yorkshire terriers, Maltese terriers, Miniature dachshunds, Miniature/toy poodles, Bichon Frisť, Pugs, Shih Tzus, Pomeranians, Staffordshire bull terriers, Boston terriers, French bulldogs a Pekingese, a miniature Pinscher and a couple of cats."

If Cavachon (Cavalier X Bichon) were MRI scanned then maybe there might be an answer to your question. Particularly so if DNA markers are found and DNA testing becomes available to the public.

In Australia I have heard of a few crossbred dogs who have Syringomyelia. Here is the latest that I heard and maybe something to think about and maybe more crossbred dogs should be MRI tested.
On my Cavalier email list I know of a "Cavalier Cross Beagle" who has been MRI'd and the Neurologist diagnosed Syringomyelia and prescribed daily doses of Gabapentin and Delta Cortef. The dog's owner even mentioned this:-
"I am no longer woken by her screams and fits in the middle of the night however she has certainly put on weight. She seems a lot happier however I am aware that as her condition deteriorates, this may not last. Sam conducted an MRI on her and concluded that he is one of the more severe cases known to him of syringomyelia. If her condition deteriorates rapidly, then the operation may be considered."
.

Karlin
5th May 2010, 12:23 AM
Hi and welcome!

Unfortunately it is definitely possible for a cross to get SM -- though inheritence isn't understood, it would seem that probably all cavaliers now carry the gene(s) for the skull malformation that can cause or contribute to SM, and perhaps most carry a gene(s) for SM itself. Any mix gets half its genes from each parent and can potentially get all the possible health issues of each parent. It isn't clear whether or not crosses really have much less risk of getting anything -- there are conflicting arguments on this from the experts but it does seem first generation crosses are at somewhat lower risk. However if parents themselves aren't from a health-focused breeder -- and many who deliberately breed crossbreeds will not have that focus, despite what they say -- then the issue I suppose goes back to inheritance of health issues if parents themselves weren't bred with purebred health as a focus. Very confusing!

SM also appears in bichons, though incidence would seem lower as they do not present to neurologists at the same rate with symptoms. But there have been diagnosed cases with symptoms. However: bichon breeders are not particularly aware that this could be an issue and are not MRIing at anywhere like the rate of cavalier or griffon breeders, for example, so it is hard to guess what actual incidence might be. It is known to be at least clinically significant in yorkies for example as there are a lot of yorkies being seen by some of the SM specialists -- for example, LIVS in the US -- but yorkie breeders do not seem to be focusing on the issue much.

In general, most small breeds have the possibility of developing SM. Researchers think it is linked to breeding smaller dogs. Something happens as the head becomes smaller and neck shorter and muzzle foreshortened that seems to trigger a mismatch in development between skull and brain size. That is the best theoretical picture at the moment, based on clinical observation, genetic work, MRI and autopsy studies and some foetal studies.

I think it is a good idea for anyone owning a cavalier or cavalier cross to be aware of key signs of possible SM and to be sure their vet is aware of the health issue in the breed. That's just good basic care and ownership, to be informed but not try to make it a major worry unless there is something to start to worry about. :) Likewise all owners should be aware of MVD as a likely issue to arise eventually in a CKCS or cross.

Bet
5th May 2010, 09:22 AM
In general, most small breeds have the possibility of developing SM. Researchers think it is linked to breeding smaller dogs. Something happens as the head becomes smaller and neck shorter and muzzle foreshortened that seems to trigger a mismatch in development between skull and brain size. That is the best theoretical picture at the moment, based on clinical observation, genetic work, MRI and autopsy studies and some foetal studies.

I think it is a good idea for anyone owning a cavalier or cavalier cross to be aware of key signs of possible SM and to be sure their vet is aware of the health issue in the breed. That's just good basic care and ownership, to be informed but not try to make it a major worry unless there is something to start to worry about. :) Likewise all owners should be aware of MVD as a likely issue to arise eventually in a CKCS or cross.[/QUOTE]


CAVALIER MIXES

Thanks Karlin for this Post, it sure is great to know that Researchers think SM is Linked to Breeding Smaller Dogs.

That some-thing happens as the Head becomes Smaller and the Neck Shorter and Muzzle Fore-Shortened that seems to Trigger a Mismatch in Developement between Skull and Brain Size.that this Based on Clinical Observation ,Genetic Work,MRI and Autopsy Studies and Some Foetal Studies.

I for sure get it the Neck for ever daring to suggest to some in the Cavalier World ,that the Cavaliers are as just has been described .

That they are different in appearance from what they looked like 25-30 years ago.

What I wonder ,if this the case , how will it be tackled, will it be from finding Cavaliers who have Genes who have a different Look.

I would think amongst a number of Cavalier Breeders , this will go down like a Lead Balloon if this different type of Cavalier has no chance of Winning in the Show Ring.

Bet