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Daisy's Mom
26th May 2010, 01:43 AM
:( This morning around 2 a.m., Daisy ran to the backdoor and cried out wanting out very badly. This is very unusual as she is not at all a vocal dog. I assumed she had to go to the bathroom, so I let her outside. After a little while, I walked out on the porch to check on her and she was eating grass like a little cow! Frenetically pulling mouthful after mouthful out of the ground and eating it! It was seriously like an addict getting a hit of drugs. I knew that was going to make her sick so I ran out to pick her up and she ran away from me, plucking off pieces of grass as she went. I carried her inside to put her in her crate since I knew she would be throwing up. I had just walked in the door and she threw up 2 huge gobs of foam and grass. I put her back outside and she immediately ran to the grass and started eating again!

We did this little routine over and over. She was very unhappy in her crate and at times when I would let her out, she would even run to the window looking out longingly at the grass! Very, very weird. I was up all night with her. Around 5:30 am, I put her in her crate and took a shower. She threw up a little bit in her crate, but not much. Once the kids came downstairs, she was acting more like her normal self for a while. But then it all started again. I got her an appt. with the vet at 10 am. He is/was worried about pancreatitis. He did bloodwork, an x-ray, gave her some subcutaneous fluids and an anti-nausea injection and kept her for the rest of the day.

I called the vet in the afternoon and bloodwork was normal and she had quit vomiting, but was lethargic. He said it is still possible that it is pancreatitis but that we may have caught it so early that it's not yet showing up in the bloodwork. He also did an x-ray and said her intestinal walls were "thickened" but no sign of an obstruction. He interpreted that as being inflammation and tentatively diagnosed her with gastroenteritis. He is keeping her overnight to make sure she doesn't have any trouble and he's going to try to feed her in the morning (no food today at all). If she keeps it down, she gets to come home tomorrow. He said she doesn't act like she has any energy but seems relatively comfortable. She has not had a bowel movement.

The only things that were even slightly unusual yesterday are that 1) I gave her a tripe treat in the morning. She has had these before, but I just opened a new bag, and 2) last night, I gave her about a teaspoon (or less) of raw ground beef. I often do this and it has never caused her the least bit of trouble before. I told the vet all this. He didn't really say anything, but I felt so guilty about the ground beef that I interpreted his silence as meaning "Why in the world did you give her that?!"

And then, in the "poor me" category: my husband is out of town, my work is crazy, and I simply cannot clean up vomit without vomiting myself. Very, very bad night!

Please keep Daisy in your prayers!

Lani
26th May 2010, 02:44 AM
Oh, poor Daisy and poor you.

We've been through this before with our old Lhasa girl who passed away last year. I know how scary it is and how helpless it feels.

I hope the vet has good news for you in the morning and that Daisy's perking up. Hopefully it was just some bad beef and she'll get over it and be just fine. :xfngr:

Hugs to you! :hug:

Love my Cavaliers
26th May 2010, 04:35 AM
I hope you are able to get some sleep tonight. At least you know Daisy will be watched over and if anything is going on it will be caught immediately. Thinking about you and sending lots of prayers and hugs for Daisy and you.

Daisy's Mom
26th May 2010, 04:47 AM
Thank you both! I don't know if I will sleep tonight or not. I am exhausted, but I am also torn up about her being there away from me, and just about not knowing in real time what is going on with her. It is very hard and I hope, as you said, that someone is there with her all the time watching out for her if she has trouble. The vet actually lives right above the clinic.

I love that little dog so much! Hopefully, I will have a positive update tomorrow.

Zoe bowie
26th May 2010, 08:02 AM
Poor Daisy hope she is better soon! Hope you got some sleep too, you I can empathise with you in relation to vomit, poo I can clean no problem but vomit....ugh!

Take a deep breath & exhale all your stresses, we don't want you ending up sick too :) also if you've given her treats & raw mince before without any problems, why should yesterday have been any different? Don't blame yourself. Sending you & Daisy some well needed hugs :hug:

Rj Mac
26th May 2010, 08:10 AM
Poor Daisy,

I hope she is feeling much better today, and can get home soon, :hug:

Shivers
26th May 2010, 10:10 AM
Fingers crossed that Daisy is feeling better today.

Sabby
26th May 2010, 10:11 AM
Wishing Daisy a speedy recovery and I hope you will be able to get some sleep.
Itís horrible when they are not with you but she is at the best place she could be where they can keep an eye on her.
Sending you both lots of :hug:

Brian M
26th May 2010, 10:26 AM
Hi

Poor Daisy and Poor You ,I do hope she gets better soon and theres now long term problem for her, so my Daisy sends big hugs to her cousin Daisy and asks that you keep us all posted when you can .:(

sins
26th May 2010, 10:56 AM
Try not to be so tough on yourself,our first instinct is to blame ourselves when our dogs become ill,but it may just have been viral too! So wait for the diagnosis:-).Sometimes things happen that we have no control over.
I hope you have your girl back home this evening,restored to full health.
Sins

Wagtails
26th May 2010, 11:53 AM
Lots of healing thoughts coming your way from me and my gang. Do hope poor Daisy will soon be feeling a lot better and can come home again very soon. It's always a nightmare when they have to be away from us, but you did absolutely the right thing.

Good lucky little Daisy
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv97/Cavviewagtails/Animations/Dog%20animations/GetWellSoonCavvie.jpg

Nicki
26th May 2010, 01:07 PM
So sorry to hear this - sometimes they can get a viral pancreatitis which starts like this - my Kyla had this once, but it never recurred.

I hope that Daisy is feeling much better - you were very sensible to get her to the vets so promptly.

Hopefully it is just gastroenteritis - and don't worry, it probably is not even connected with what you had given her, just one of those things.

Keep us posted - we are all thinking of you and Daisy.

*Pauline*
26th May 2010, 01:07 PM
Poor little Daisy, my two often graze on grass and are not sick but they do seem to know when they need to eat it. I hope she is feeling better now.

liammckeogh
26th May 2010, 02:33 PM
I hope by now you have had good news about Daisy. Our Molly eats just about everything--even those little covers for earphones.

Desrae
26th May 2010, 03:18 PM
Poor Daisy! Sending positive healing vibes for a speedy recovery and that she is back home soon.

Daisy's Mom
26th May 2010, 03:33 PM
Thanks everyone for all the nice comments and well wishes! It really helps to read your comments.

I called this morning at 8:00 and the vet wasn't there yet, but the tech said Daisy was perky this morning when they took her out to potty. Still no bowel movement. I don't know if he will consider that a problem or not. She said that the vet will determine whether to give her breakfast or not, but based on Daisy's condition this morning, he probably will. She said the usual routine is to feed them and then keep them till late afternoon to make sure they are going to keep it down. So if I do get her home today, it won't be till about 3:30 pm or so.

I hope they give her a kind of food that she will like. She is kind of picky about these things, although if she is hungry enough, I'm sure she will eat anything they put in front of her. Hopefully that is the case because that would make me feel better about her if she was hungry. The vet is supposed to call me this morning to tell me if she ate, and what the plan is.

I did sleep last night, but kept waking in fits and starts wondering if Daisy Dog was doing OK. When I talked to the vet yesterday evening, he kind of scared me. I wasn't sure (and am still not sure) whether he said "We'll see if she gets through the night..." or "We'll see if she's good through the night..." I was too scared to ask him which he said because if it was the former, I knew I would be a basket case all night. I tried to convince myself that he said "good through the night."

I'll update again when I hear from him. Thanks again for those hugs and well wishes!

Dublin
26th May 2010, 05:28 PM
Glad to hear Daisy seems a bit better today - I hope she comes home tonight to you.:hug:

I give my 3 raw beef mince - which I think is the same as your ground beef - all the time with no problems so hopefully it wasnt that.

Daisy's Mom
26th May 2010, 06:08 PM
I am very grateful to those people who said that they give their dogs hamburger meat (mince) sometimes, or that commented that it was unlikely to be the cause of Daisy's illness. That makes me feel better! I just give her a little bit occasionally when I am making spaghetti sauce or something else where I use it for our dinner. I always read about raw diets and how great dogs do on them (on this forum, other internet sites, and in the Whole Dog Journal), so I thought I was doing a good thing. But I was almost afraid to admit it because I was afraid people (and the vet) might jump all over me for doing so. We all ate the hamburger meat in the spaghetti and meatballs for dinner that night and none of us humans got sick. Obviously it was cooked, though. Also, in my defense, it was very high end organically raised beef! :) People in the U.S. (and maybe everywhere) are so hyper-concerned about the safety of all meat that I thought I might be seen as a crazy person for giving my beloved dog any raw meat whatsoever. My sister in law uses like 3 different spatulas when they grill hamburgers because once the spatula touches a burger, it has to be sterilized and a new one is fetched! It's a wonder how we all survived growing up because our parents didn't take such extreme measures.

I will talk to the vet about it and if he thinks it's a bad idea I will definitely never give it to her again, believe me.

Anyway, the vet called and verified that they were going to feed Daisy this morning because she seemed better. I told them to call me if she wouldn't eat and I would run home and get some of her food. The vet said they would do that. They didn't call back, so I assume that Daisy ate what they gave her. So I take that as a very good sign.

Lani
26th May 2010, 07:18 PM
My sister in law uses like 3 different spatulas when they grill hamburgers because once the spatula touches a burger, it has to be sterilized and a new one is fetched! It's a wonder how we all survived growing up because our parents didn't take such extreme measures.

I really doubt it was the hamburger meat! There are people who make their own raw food for their dog and give it to them daily. And you're so right about how did we survive growing up!! My mom used the same wood cutting board for the meat as the veggies & bread. She used that thing for years and years. And she used to mix up the hamburgers with egg, bread crumbs and onions & I'll tell you a secret, I remember eating little pieces of the hamburger mix just like cookie dough :eek: Gross to me now in retrospect, but we all survived. :-)

I'm so glad she seems to be doing better today!! I hope she gets to come home soon. :xfngr:

Claire L
26th May 2010, 07:46 PM
Get well soon Daisy :hug:

The Rouge Princess
26th May 2010, 08:48 PM
Thinking of you and Daisy.Keep us posted :thmbsup:

x

Karlin
26th May 2010, 09:13 PM
Glad she is sounding better! I think it is always OK to let them eat grass -- for them it is kind of like taking pepto bismol. It does sound like gastroenteritis to me - I;m sure the vet didn't mean 'if she makes it through the night' -- you poor thing, I can imagine that must have added to your concerns!

Dogs could feel ill from so many things they might eat I wouldn't worry about a bit of raw beef. :)

lindylou
26th May 2010, 09:42 PM
my louie often eats grass 2-3 times a week then brings up white bile he's of his food for a few hours then back on his food. i always think they have an upset tummy when they eat grass. i mentioned it to my vet and he said it is all right for them to eat grass.

Teresa
26th May 2010, 10:35 PM
Barney sometimes eats grass for no apparent reason. When he gets an upset tummy he eats loads of it!! He also has a taste for Guinea pig poo (Cassie too!!) The vet says this is fine though.

Barney has had severe gastroenteritis he eats it when this happens, must be an instinct.

I hope your Daisy feels better soon...x

liammckeogh
26th May 2010, 11:58 PM
I hope that by now Daisy is sitting beside you at home.:)

Daisy's Mom
27th May 2010, 03:42 AM
Thanks, everyone! Well, Daisy is home with us tonight, but she's not 100% by any means. She wouldn't eat for the vet and they didn't call me to tell me (aargh), even though I told them I would bring Daisy's food if I needed to. The vet said she would call me if that was the case, but she didn't. So I ended up calling them this afternoon to see what was going on. When they told me, I ran home and then to the clinic with a bunch of her food and assorted favorite treats. She did like the treats, but she didn't want much to do with her food, even with her beloved liver powder sprinkled on top. But she ate enough that they said I could bring her home and watch her. They are going to call me tomorrow to check on her. They said if she vomits, has diarrhea, or if she refuses to eat to bring her back in right away. She has an anti-nausea medicine, an antibiotic, and one other pill to take (can't remember what that one was off the top of my head.)

She had a tiny squirt of unbelievably smelly loose poop (sorry for the grossness) after we got home, and she is very tired and kind of mopey, but she has not vomited. I will be staying home with her tomorrow. She did eat a tiny bit after we got home, and drank a bunch of water. When she went out in the yard when we got home, she started eating grass again.

She went through a similar thing when she was a year old and one of the vets we ended up seeing during that episode said not to let her eat grass because it is very hard on her intestines, right when they were already inflamed with the gastroenteritis. During that episode, she completely quit eating for days and the vet gave me a food syringe thing and said that eventually, we were going to have to force feed her or she would die. I eventually got her eating that time by using the Satin Balls recipe I found on here. (Ironically, that recipe has raw hamburger in it!)

It's hard to know what to do on the grass thing. It seems like it's a vicious circle with her. Being sick at her tummy apparently makes her rabid for grass, and then the grass makes her that much sicker. It's very frustrating. I'm going to try to stop her as much as possible. I konw that dogs eating grass occasionally is normal, but not to the extent she has done this week.

Anyway, I'm very happy to have her home and I hope tomorrow will be a better day for her all around.

Rj Mac
27th May 2010, 08:00 AM
Glad to hear you have her home, hopefully over the next couple of days she will start to pick up and improve, we'l be keeping you in our thoughts, keep us posted on how she's doing:hug::hug::hug:

Bunnylover
27th May 2010, 10:05 AM
just read through all this what a stressful time for you,pleased to hear she's home with you and seems abit better.Sending hugs to you both x

susandavis1
27th May 2010, 10:53 AM
sorry to hear that Daisy is poorly, hope she is feeling better soon.:hug:

Desrae
27th May 2010, 05:38 PM
Tis good news she is home. The meds and plenty of rest (and patience!) will get her back on the right track, paws crossed.

Tania
27th May 2010, 05:51 PM
I went through this with Molly once, I was sitting outside with her most of the night,
she was totally obsessed with eating grass, it was really weird :eek: she was quite poorly but it has never happened again .
I hope Daisy recovers, sending you and Daisy our best wishes and healing thoughts.

arasara
27th May 2010, 07:54 PM
thank God she's back home! I actually just had an incident not too long ago with kosmo where he would eat grass like crazy. He ended up having colitis but the grass thing was almost ravenous! Is her tummy talking loudly? That's what always precipitated Kosmo's grass eating. It was quite an ordeal with him, but he's finally doing better now. I hope she gets over this soon and she's back to 100%! :)

Daisy's Mom
27th May 2010, 11:54 PM
thank God she's back home! I actually just had an incident not too long ago with kosmo where he would eat grass like crazy. He ended up having colitis but the grass thing was almost ravenous! Is her tummy talking loudly? That's what always precipitated Kosmo's grass eating. It was quite an ordeal with him, but he's finally doing better now. I hope she gets over this soon and she's back to 100%! :)


What did they do to treat his colitis? I'll look up the symptoms online and see if they match what's going on with Daisy.

I wish I had better news to report on Daisy, but now she is on a total eating strike. I now have complete deja vu from 3 years ago at almost this exact time of year when she would not eat anything at all for several days. She ended up being at the vets for several days and they never did know what was wrong with her after all kinds of expensive testing. This is now a different vet, who did 2 of the same tests (so far) with the same conclusion -- they don't know what is going on but they are calling it gastroenteritis.

She is mopey and she literally will not even look at food now at all. Last time when this happened, I ended up making Satin Balls and got her to eat them and was rejoicing over it because the vet said the next step was force-feeding her. I just made the recipe and took a little bit over to her and she wouldn't even touch it. I guess I will call the vet tomorrow and see what he recommends now that she's moved on to this new symptom. She could stand to lose about 5 pounds so a little while without eating isn't a huge deal perhaps, but I know we will need to see some signs that she has decided to eat again in the near future.

And she is still absolutely obsessed with grass. I'm really wondering now if it is something in the environment that is making this happen again. I don't remember all the vomiting from 3 years ago, but I do recall the grass eating and I most definitely recall the anorexia. I walked her down the street this afternoon instead of letting her out in our backyard, just in case it was something in our grass that was attracting her and/or making her sick. She pulled like crazy to get her face in every yard that we passed so she could eat grass. I am at my wits' end.

If anyone remembers details of their dogs' similar episodes, please share what finally ended the problem! Was it just time? Medicine? Daisy's on anti-nausea medicine, an antibiotic, and an acid reducer. I really hoped the Satin balls would do the trick, but maybe it's just too soon for her to decide to eat anything yet. Maybe last time I used them, she was just at the time where her appetite was starting to come back.

Teresa
28th May 2010, 12:01 AM
How awful for you and Daisy!!

I've been there with Barney (four times!!)and all that worked was starving for up to 72 hours the same meds as Daisy is on, a drip plus strong antibiotics.

She's listening to her body at the moment - vets seem to say gastroenteritis when they have no clues for anything else.

Barney started eating after around three and a half days, he must have been feeling bad as he is a complete food addict usually - ill or not!!

Sending you a big hug as I know I needed one whe Barney was ill!!

Daisy's Mom
28th May 2010, 12:13 AM
How awful for you and Daisy!!

I've been there with Barney (four times!!)and all that worked was starving for up to 72 hours the same meds as Daisy is on, a drip plus strong antibiotics.

She's listening to her body at the moment - vets seem to say gastroenteritis when they have no clues for anything else.

Barney started eating after around three and a half days, he must have been feeling bad as he is a complete food addict usually - ill or not!!

Sending you a big hug as I know I needed one whe Barney was ill!!

That does sound like Daisy! Even the food addict part. I'm trying my best not to get too panic-stricken yet so it helps to hear that other dogs had this type of thing and then started eating again after a few days. One thing that is increasing my anxiety, though, is that we were planning a trip to see family this weekend in another state. My husband's niece is graduating from HS and then we were going to go to my parents' house for Memorial Day. My parents will be very, very disappointed if we don't go, as we haven't seen them since Christmas. They don't get to see our kids that much and they are elderly, so I always feel pretty guilty about that. I was praying that Daisy would get better by Sat morning when we are supposed to leave. What to do, what to do?

Teresa
28th May 2010, 12:17 AM
Stressful eh?? Two years ago Barney spent four days at the vets and came home the day before we were going to Suffolk for a week looking very fragile (but much better than he was!!). We took the decision to leave him with Kevins Mum and Dad for a quiet week rather than a six hour drive and a change of scene. It was hard as he comes everywhere with me but he loves them and is familiar with their house.

We came home after the week away to a totally recovered bouncy Barney :)

Karlin
28th May 2010, 12:18 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about not eating -- and I'd ignore her totally when feeding and just lift the food uneaten til the next scheduled meal, at least for the next day or two, not try to cajole her into eating. Unless she is emaciated and badly needing food -- on the vet's direct advice -- I'd follow the advice in the Caring for your Cavalier forum for finicky dogs. Wild canids only eat every few days and a domestic dog's digestive system is designed to follow this as well. Some people actually skip feeding days to more closely simulate natural feeding patterns with their dogs! So a few days of not eating generally is no big deal unless you definitely have a sick dog (as opposed to a recovering dog). Also dogs may choose not to eat when they have had an upset stomach and will start when they feel hungry -- much like people do when they have had a vomiting bug or bad tummy upset. She may just not feel like food. It is always best never to try and lure a dog to eat though unless there are definite medical reasons to do so. But: if she ate the treats and not her food, I truly think your problem is a finicky dog holding out for attention/interesting new choices that may be more the equivalent of tasty junk food rather than what she needs to be eating. She is definitely eating if she will eat the treats! I would also say your vet didn't ring mostly because it really doesn't matter much whether she was eating or not, to be honest. :) Sometimes they wait til a dog starts to eat before releasing one from colitis, but often not if the dog was otherwise looking OK.

However, that said: has your vet done blood tests for pancreatitis? This could possibly be the problem and would require a special diet and potentially medication. It is very helpful to identify this condition early as it can become serious if left untreated and the dog is fed on normal food and treats. It is generally progressive. There is a significant rate of this health problem in cavaliers. Satin balls would be a definite no no - and indeed actually could cause a serious crisis for a dog -- if this was the issue as they have a high fat content from oils etc and this triggers pancreatitis flare ups (why it often occurs during US eating holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving when people give their dogs fatty turkey skin and leftovers!). Flare ups can cause a serious crash where you get symptoms as you did and the dog ends up on a drip. It can be fatal if not caught early. That's why doing a test if you have a dog that has repeat digestive problems may well be in order. Many vets do not know that this is seen a lot in cavaliers.

Karlin
28th May 2010, 12:25 AM
Pancreatitis in cavaliers:

http://cavaliercampaign.com/other-health-problems.htm#pancreatitis

http://www.cavalierhealth.org/pancreatitis.htm

Symptoms:


Classic signs of chronic pancreatitis include abdominal pain, vomiting, and loss of appetite. The pain can be severe and may cause the dog to take a “praying” position. The affected dog may also pass diarrhea or voluminous feces, with small amounts of fresh blood and/or mucous.

The clinical signs of pancreatitis will vary with the severity of the disease. Low-grade cases may not show all of the classic symptoms and may be confused with inflammatory bowel disease. In severe cases, the dog may become dehydrated, may collapse, be in shock, and may even suffer renal shutdown and distressed breathing.

Daisy's Mom
28th May 2010, 12:49 AM
He is definitely concerned about pancreatitis and in fact gave me a handout about it. He did do the blood test but it came back normal. She is not eating anything, not treats or anything else. Yesterday, she did eat a couple of liver treats when I went to the vet to see if she would eat, but nothing at all now. I will call the vet back tomorrow and tell him what's going on. And I definitely won't try any drastic measures to get her to eat.

She did not have any abdominal sensitivity, so that's good. He really felt around pretty thoroughly on her abdomen the day I first brought her in. He said her intestines felt thickened, which the x-ray confirmed. He said that we may have done the blood test a little too early in the process to completely rule out pancreatitis, so I suspect that if she doesn't feel better soon, he will re-do it.

Right now she doesn't seem uncomfortable, but she's just lethargic and won't eat. Plus, of course the annoying grass obsession.

I agree that the not-eating thing isn't a big deal yet, as it's only been most of the day yesterday, and all of today so far where she wouldn't eat. I'll read about the pancreatitis in more detail.

Daisy's Mom
29th May 2010, 02:54 AM
Quick update: Daisy ate almost nothing Tuesday, nothing Wednesday, nothing Thursday and nothing today until this afternoon when she finally decided to rejoin the living. Yeahhh!! I was never so happy to see a dog eat, let me tell you.

She's still a little tired, and she has very weird, extremely smelly stools, but I definitely feel like she has turned the corner towards getting well. I assume that when she gets some food moving through her, her stool will firm up. She is still nibbling grass occasionally today, but compared to the ravenous gulping of it the last few days, I'm very happy.

Thanks, everyone for your concern and advice. Next time this happens, I am going to try very hard not to overreact. (I admit I'm the same way when my kids are sick. Small beings like that just seem so fragile.) I guess she'll be going with us on our trip now. A few hours in the car might be good for her. She always sleeps really well in the car. Hopefully the change in routine won't set her back. My only other option would be to leave her with the vet, but after hearing some of the coughing dogs in there this week, I feel safer with her going with us.

She lost 1.2 pounds during her fast, as close as I can tell.

Charlifarley
29th May 2010, 11:59 AM
Thats great news. Off you go now for a weekend with your parents, and hopefully the change will do Daisy the world of good.:drivecar:

Karlin
29th May 2010, 01:49 PM
So glad she ate! :) Yay!

On the grass -- I really wouldn't see this as annoying. Many dogs just enjoy eating grass. It is great roughage for them (as long as not chemically treated). All five of mine like eating it when I take them to the park; it gives them nice firm stools. They will eat it as well when they don't feel well and look for it then on their morning walks -- and won't eat grass in the mornings like this unless they don't feel well -- but all also just like grass and will ALWAYS eat it on an outing to the park and then pass it in their stools. It isn't much different from them eating green beans, carrots or the other things we give them for roughage. If a dog wants grass, they are taking the natural option of what feels best for them to deal with discomfort or it is just something they enjoy -- so I wouldn't prevent it or be annoyed by it.

lindylou
30th May 2010, 09:02 AM
thinking of you and daisy and hope daisy gets better soon it's a very hard when they are poorley

The Rouge Princess
30th May 2010, 02:58 PM
Glad to hear Daisy is feeling a little better :)

x

Rj Mac
30th May 2010, 06:31 PM
So glad to hear she's even a little better:lotsaluv::thmbsup: