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View Full Version : Bladder Stones in New Foster girl!



ddunning
10th June 2010, 05:35 PM
Hi, without going into the long, sad story in too much detail, last Thursday we picked up our first foster rescue Cavalier, Sarah (8 years old) - vet found large (size of Hershey Kiss) bladder stones , 3 to 4 of them, and both oxalate and struvite crystals in urine. She is VERY uncomfortable and has to squat and strain constantly and I do mean constantly. Prescription food was mentioned by the vet to at least prevent future stone formation and the other issue is she has a Grade 4 murmur (diagnosed by cardiologist yesterday), no evidence of heart failure but does have enlarged heart. She was put on Vetmedin and Enalapril and will be rechecked in 2 weeks prior to surgery for the stones - oh yes, and at the same surgery she will have several, if not all, her remaining teeth removed due to untreated periodontal disease.

My question is: the ingredients in the various urinary stone prescription diets look like they're almost all grain (even the canned) and some have ethoxyquin or BHA and all sorts of other stuff in them. Short of doing a homecooked diet for her - which I would certainly do in foster, but at this point, getting her to the adoptable stage is going to take some time and having a homecooked requirement will put a real damper on her adoptability, I would think). Have any of you used a prescription diet for this condition and if so, which one might be the best choice, or should I ask for a homecooked diet recipe from the vet (if she can even recommend one)? From my reading, it looks to me like she has both types of stones which show both acidic and alkaline urine (!) so how in the world do you treat that? Or do we simply not worry about future oxalate stone formation and treat as if she only had the other kind(s)?:lpy:
Thanks for any advice!

Diane

(Sarah, 8 yo Blenheim foster; Geordie, 4 yo Blenheim, Teddy, 6 yo B&T rescue and Chase, 2 yo Golden Retriever)

Desrae
10th June 2010, 09:11 PM
Hi there. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of info to answer your questions about your cavalier foster's special diet. However, I did look up treating bladder stones in dogs on the Internet and most sites say that these special foods are formulated to dissolve the stones. So, even though it might not be the best food for her, it will help her to recover from her condition, because it is a low mineral, low protein diet with the dissolving agents.
I've read it can take about 10 days to work. It might be worth a try. Hope my answer can help you a bit though. Bless you for helping this poor little girl! I do hope things get better for you all!:flwr:

ddunning
11th June 2010, 03:13 PM
Thanks! The vet specifically wants her on Royal Canin OS - the ingredients are not the best, but at least there's meat in there - some veterinary diets have no animal protein at all, some even have ethoxyquin or BHA! Vet also said that once a dog has this condition, they will continue to generate crystals and stones, and so they must be on the diet after surgery to prevent future ones.

Diane


Hi there. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of info to answer your questions about your cavalier foster's special diet. However, I did look up treating bladder stones in dogs on the Internet and most sites say that these special foods are formulated to dissolve the stones. So, even though it might not be the best food for her, it will help her to recover from her condition, because it is a low mineral, low protein diet with the dissolving agents.
I've read it can take about 10 days to work. It might be worth a try. Hope my answer can help you a bit though. Bless you for helping this poor little girl! I do hope things get better for you all!:flwr:

Karlin
12th June 2010, 03:10 PM
I've never actually found grains to cause many problems in dogs -- though this gets circulated around a lot on the net the reality from studies is that proteins like chicken, beef and dairy products actually cause at least as many allergic reactions. So really would not worry about grains unless the dog suddenly develops an unexplained allergic response. Wheat is according to 10 studies noted in one article, the main grain that causes problems fro some dogs, yet many diet-focused people give their dogs yogurt or eggs regularly on the basis that it is good for them... and they are just as likely to cause problems as wheat or corn! The issue is quite tricky and there are so many allergy misconceptions out there. This is from an article from UC Davis Vet School thats in the health library:


The most common proven allergens in the dog are beef, chicken, milk, eggs, corn, wheat, and soy

Some special diets do not have certain types of meat because meat proteins can be a problem for some conditions... maybe you mean they don't have a named meat but instead use meal or digest? I don't think I've come across a dog diet that excludes meat entirely except for when some choose a vegetarian diet deliberately or because of a specific medical problem.

Managing crystals especially if the dog has both is a pretty critical issue (this is a lot more common in cats -- that's where I've come across and had to manage the issue before). Managing it does require really careful dietary control. I wouldn't try anything homecooked unless with vet guidance -- this might be a possibility once she has had those crystals dissolved/removed? I'd certainly talk to the vet and see if they have any suggestions. If they do, please post back as it would be a good to know and is a good question!

Meantime, this is a vets I like that has a very helpful website on lots of conditions -- they explain stones and list fresh foods that are suitable for treats, so that might help vary and improve her diet beyond dry food (though of course given that she has both kinds of stones, maybe these are not all appropriate):

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_oxalate_bladder_stones.html

ddunning
14th June 2010, 05:32 PM
Thanks Karlin - I know I need to be reminded that grains are not evil! And if it's going to help her and prevent a recurrence, then absolutely. My vet explained it is very tricky dealing with these cases, and at least right now, since it looks like she has 2 different types of stones homecooked might be out of the question; I found an article with a recipe for this specific condition online and it looks like the homecooked would only work if the stones were one type or the other, not both, so I would have no idea what I'd be doing. I can certainly check with the vet to see if she can come up with one, because I would certainly try. I would also have to constantly monitor urine PH and specific gravity. At that point that's another downside to a potential adopter - along with her deafness and heart condition and relatively older age, I understand that most people would not want to deal with that.

Would the "plain cooked chicken" include those freeze-dried chicken "tenders" that are sold in good pet stores? The ones without any other ingredients?

I'm also going to have to figure out how to housetrain her after surgery - she has only gone on pee pads her whole life and need to find a high-value treat for that. Oh yes, and crate train her - my first foster is a real opportunity for us to do it all!
I found some good resources on line about communicating with deaf dogs too.

Diane