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RodRussell
24th June 2010, 03:57 AM
The Advisory Council on the Welfare Issues of Dog Breeding, headed by Dr. Sheila Crispin, reportedly will be studying three main issues regarding pedigreed dogs: puppy farms, genetic abnormalities, and dangerous dogs. According to The Independent on its website -- http://tinyurl.com/23syb25 -- the genetic abnormalities issue is stated thusly:

"Genetic abnormalities: Around 20 pedigree breeds suffer serious health problems as a result of decades of breeding designed to meet Kennel Club standards essential for winning rosettes at shows such as Crufts. After the BBC's hard-hitting show Pedigree Dogs Exposed in August 2008, the Kennel Club, having initially been defensive, announced an overhaul of its breed standards. The need for an end to genetic abnormalities such as under-sized brains was underlined by two reports on dog breeding last year, by the RSPCA and the Associate Parliamentary Group for Animal Welfare."

Now, I don't know who wrote that quoted statement, whether it was Dr. Crispin or the author of the web article (Martin Hickman?) or Prof. Bateson or whoever. Clearly, "under-sized brains" is not a CKCS problem, and I've never really ever heard of any breed suffering from it, except possibly the air-head breeds (none of which will I identify here).

My question to you all is this:

Do we have any scientific evidence that Cavaliers suffer from CM or SM or MVD "as a result of decades of breeding designed to meet Kennel Club standards"?

Karlin
24th June 2010, 11:21 AM
I think that writer probably meant undersized skulls or oversized brains.

I also think there would be many examples in many breeds of health compromise due to meeting an interpretation of standards or the standards themselves.

With cavaliers -- I think there is a weight of evidence now that indicates the foreshortened face and the smaller size -- which is in the breed standard -- has something to do with the propensity to SM as every breed that has it as an issue is a miniaturised, flatter-faced breed. Breeding for that head seems to trigger other things during skull formation. The foetal tissue research has indicated something is happening at foetal stage and there are a couple of articles now published on changes to other unexpected parts of the skull and links between one aspect of skull shape and various consequences.

Bet
24th June 2010, 12:06 PM
I think that writer probably meant undersized skulls or oversized brains.

I also think there would be many examples in many breeds of health compromise due to meeting an interpretation of standards or the standards themselves.

With cavaliers -- I think there is a weight of evidence now that indicates the foreshortened face and the smaller size -- which is in the breed standard -- has something to do with the propensity to SM as every breed that has it as an issue is a miniaturised, flatter-faced breed. Breeding for that head seems to trigger other things during skull formation. The foetal tissue research has indicated something is happening at foetal stage and there are a couple of articles now published on changes to other unexpected parts of the skull and links between one aspect of skull shape and various consequences.

Advisory Issues On The Welfare Issues Of Dog Breeding


Could I add to Karlin's Post.

I have just contacted Martin Hickman ,The Independant News-paper's Correspondant who wrote this Article,but he did say that a Cavalier's Skull is too Small for it's Brain,I don't know why he mentioned about Undersized Brains.

I did make him aware about the SM Research which is as Karlin has mentioned.

What is good to know though, is that the Independant Advisory Council ,have taken notice about the Cavaliers' SM Problem , ,according, as I understand it, will be dealing with it.

I wonder ,does any-body know if the Cavalier Breed is one of the 22 Acknowledged Breeds that the Kennel Club says ,suffers from Abnormalities.

Bet

RodRussell
24th June 2010, 03:24 PM
... I wonder ,does any-body know if the Cavalier Breed is one of the 22 Acknowledged Breeds that the Kennel Club says ,suffers from Abnormalities. ...

I think that is a safe "bet".

Bet
26th June 2010, 10:29 AM
Advisory Issues On The Welfare Issues Of Dog Breeding


Could I add to Karlin's Post.

I have just contacted Martin Hickman ,The Independant News-paper's Correspondant who wrote this Article,but he did say that a Cavalier's Skull is too Small for it's Brain,I don't know why he mentioned about Undersized Brains.

I did make him aware about the SM Research which is as Karlin has mentioned.

What is good to know though, is that the Independant Advisory Council ,have taken notice about the Cavaliers' SM Problem , ,according, as I understand it, will be dealing with it

I wonder ,does any-body know if the Cavalier Breed is one of the 22 Acknowledged Breeds that the Kennel Club says ,suffers from Abnormalities.

Bet


ADVISORY COUNCIL ON THE WELFARE ISSUES OF DOG BREEDING

I wonder if I could add to my previous Post about how I thought this could be of such a benefit to Dogs , now I am not so sure after reading about the Appointment of the Chairman of the Advisory Council,since I believe is some-one who is involved with the Kennel Club and therefore may take the Pressure off the KC with regard to the stringent measures that we all know that are so important for the betterment of the Health Problems in Dogs.

When you think about it ,what clout is this Advisory Council going to have, when they are only going to be Meeting 12 days a year,take our Cavalier Breed ,what can be done about their SM and MVD Problems in those few days.

I would think ,not a lot.

Is the suffering of our Cavaliers from SM and MVD, when you get to the Nitty Gritty, going to be down to us who care so much for our Breed,

!st.... the Cavalier Breeders who will carry out Health Checks on their Breeding Stock, then getting Prospective Cavalier Buyers educated only to buy from those Cavalier Breeders who are doing this.

Last but by no means least ,give all the Help to the Researchers needed, who are involved in trying to improve the Health of our Cherished Cavaliers.

I just can't see any other way forward in trying to save our Cavaliers from Extinction.

It is up now , to us True Lovers of our Cavaliers.

Bet

Bet
5th July 2010, 12:12 PM
ADVISORY COUNCIL ON THE WELFARE ISSUES OF DOG BREEDING

I wonder if I could add to my previous Post about how I thought this could be of such a benefit to Dogs , now I am not so sure after reading about the Appointment of the Chairman of the Advisory Council,since I believe is some-one who is involved with the Kennel Club and therefore may take the Pressure off the KC with regard to the stringent measures that we all know that are so important for the betterment of the Health Problems in Dogs.

When you think about it ,what clout is this Advisory Council going to have, when they are only going to be Meeting 12 days a year,take our Cavalier Breed ,what can be done about their SM and MVD Problems in those few days.

I would think ,not a lot.

Is the suffering of our Cavaliers from SM and MVD, when you get to the Nitty Gritty, going to be down to us who care so much for our Breed,

!st.... the Cavalier Breeders who will carry out Health Checks on their Breeding Stock, then getting Prospective Cavalier Buyers educated only to buy from those Cavalier Breeders who are doing this.

Last but by no means least ,give all the Help to the Researchers needed, who are involved in trying to improve the Health of our Cherished Cavaliers.

I just can't see any other way forward in trying to save our Cavaliers from Extinction.

It is up now , to us True Lovers of our Cavaliers.

Bet


Advisory Council on the Welfare Issues of Dog Breeding

Because the Appointment of Professor Crispin is the Head Lines in Dog World this week as Chair Person of the Independant Advisory Council, could I mention the comments made by Caroline Kisko the Secretary of the Kennel Club about advice being given to Dog Breeders,I think that it is more than advice that is needed to be being given to the Dog
Breeders ,it is action.

As was mentioned in the APGAW Report , that the Title of Champion should not be given to a Dog unless He or She has been Health Checked ,this could be of such importance to our Cavalier Breed,it is those Cavaliers who will be being the most used in Cavalier Breeding Programs, and if they have SM or MVD will be spreading those Two Diseases further into the Cavalier Breed,hope fully Professor Crispin and her Committee will tackle this,and support it ,and that this could cut through the Competing and some-times Self- Interested Views of Breed Clubs and Individual Breeders , it's when Breeders support Bad Practices ,such as is seen in the Kennel Club's Breeding Supplements of some Cavalier Breeders not heeding the the UK CKCS Breeding Guidelines for MVD and SM , and Breeding from Cavaliers who are under the age of 2.5 years, that the Independant Advisory Council is challenging those Cavalier Breeders.

Bet Hargreaves