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View Full Version : Anal Glands ----- Again



Brian M
22nd July 2010, 01:43 PM
HI

I am coming to the conclusion that Cavaliers must enjoy scooting just for the sheer fun of it and possibly also to have a scratch along the way ,just like Tania's new superb cartoons.:)

I took Rosie on the Saturday before we went on hols to the vets to have her glands checked and expressed if needed ,and the amount that came out was minimal and of course a few days later there she was scooting again .:confused:

As they are all on Natural Instinct raw with added veg for bulk I have also included two more products to assist them all with firmer poops these are .

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/digestive-supplements-prebiotic-probiotic-products-c-5_172/protexin-pro-fibre-for-dogs-cats-800g-pot-p-769

and

http://www.poochandmutt.com/mobilebones/?gclid=CImX2diL_6ICFepc4wodH2Mdeg

both products here both the Bionic Biotic and the Mobile Bones.

And have also purchased last week and have been trying .

http://www.enaturalremedies.co.uk/analglandz-treat-anal-glands-odor.htm

This is used with cotton wool swabs as a hot compress over the gland opening ,and even though I have watched my vets express them many times and viewed lots of diagrams as to where they are I am not sure I am placing the cotton wool swab over the glands. :confused: So does anybody know of a simple and easy way for me to find them as so far I don't know if I have and I don't think Rosie is very amused when I grab hold of her then lift her tail up with one hand and then start rooting around her bum with my other hand encased in a rubber glove .:yikes I would like to have the knowledge and confidence to express her glands if needed but initially I would be more than happy to know that I am putting this compress in the right place . :)

HollyDolly
22nd July 2010, 06:06 PM
I know you will not want to hear this Brian but the best thing I have ever done for my dogs is to give them raw food and bones. I can honestly say that approx 6 weeks after starting this diet the problem with the glands disappeared.
They have chicken wings maybe 3 times a week and a lamb bone once a week, they have never looked back and I am sure would turn they nose up in disgust if offered anything else.

Nanette

PS have tried protexin did absolutely nothing.

Tania
22nd July 2010, 07:27 PM
HI
:yikes I would like to have the knowledge and confidence to express her glands if needed but initially I would be more than happy to know that I am putting this compress in the right place . :)

Since I have changed to Darlings Raw Food, the dreaded anal glands have improved significantly! I am not brave enough to have a go myself, I let my vet do it. I take them every four weeks to have a general check at the same time. Good Luck Brian :eek:

Kizzys Mum
22nd July 2010, 07:33 PM
Going to have to agree with HollyDolly here! We had endless problems with our dogs (mainly Ozzy) before going onto raw. And I do think it's the bones that make the difference although I know you're not keen on feeding them... (We started with just the "mush" from Natural Instinct and gradually introduced more bones).

Also, just a thought but maybe they are getting too many veggies? That can have disasterous effects here! I know there is some veg in the Natural Instinct mix, so maybe by adding more, you're upsetting the balance?

team bella
22nd July 2010, 07:57 PM
I too would have liked to be able to carry out the job but I can only say that I have had a look and decided that I couldn't see anything but fur!!! a trip to the vet is just easier. Since Bella had the bad anal problem last year, I only have to look in the direction of her bottom :yikes and she promptly attaches her bottom to the ground and I can't shift her.

Teresa
22nd July 2010, 08:57 PM
Everyone is talking about anal glands lol :)

I was wondering, I've read a few times on here about people feeding chicken wings...I always thought that chicken bones were a bad idea. Should I be giving my two these? What are the benefits/risks? Raw or cooked? I'm open to new ideas :)

Cheers....Teresa..x

The Rouge Princess
22nd July 2010, 09:03 PM
The anal glands are located at 4 and 8 o'clock if you were looking at a clock face - either sides of their "hole".The glands are not visible from the outside.If you place your finger tips at the points mentioned above and apply a little pressure, you should be able to feel like two little grapes.If you arch the tail over the back a little more, the glands raise a little to help with locating.These are the anal glands.I find I need to do Scarlett's on a monthly basis, more as a precaution than anything and usually at bath time as the warmth of the water helps imo.

ETA - to remove, squeeze firmly but don't pinch and work up with each squeeze, like milking a cow.

Good luck and I advise doing it in somewhere "clean easy" like the bathroom :rolleyes:

x

Kizzys Mum
22nd July 2010, 09:25 PM
Teresa - If you feed chicken wings (or any bones) they should always be fed raw. If they are cooked, they can be very dangerous. There are risks associated with feeding raw, so you may like to research it and make your own decision :) but our dogs are thriving on it, as are many other raw-fed dogs I know.

team bella
22nd July 2010, 09:45 PM
In Bella's case its getting the clock face off the ground :)

Margaret C
22nd July 2010, 10:26 PM
In Bella's case its getting the clock face off the ground :)

:badgrin: How true.

Use both arms to raise her up and then drape her over your bended knee to stop her sinking down again.
In theory you can then hold her still with one arm and grope her backside with the free hand.

Yes, I do know it is easier said than done.

I don't feed raw but I do add bran to their meal.

waldor
22nd July 2010, 10:45 PM
So far, this is a nuisance that Sophie has only experienced once.


Would any of us have ever though, in our wildest dreams years ago, that we would be talking about dog butts (a/k/a bums in the UK) on the internet? :biggrin: LOL

The Rouge Princess
23rd July 2010, 12:52 PM
Lol @ Waldor

Margaret - That's exactly how I do it.

As for feeding, I'll fully soak a few bits of kibble and then stir in a dry handful to help with transit lol

Good luck, Team Bella

x

Brian M
23rd July 2010, 09:32 PM
I know you will not want to hear this Brian but the best thing I have ever done for my dogs is to give them raw food and bones. I can honestly say that approx 6 weeks after starting this diet the problem with the glands disappeared.
They have chicken wings maybe 3 times a week and a lamb bone once a week, they have never looked back and I am sure would turn they nose up in disgust if offered anything else.

Nanette

PS have tried protexin did absolutely nothing.

Hello Nanette

I will hear anything from a person of your standing , knowledge and experience with our Cavaliers and especially so as you fairy godmother to all four of them and could possibly be their future Mum so you have every right to guide me in the direction you think I should go as I fully appreciate our agreed arrangement so to me you are already part of their family for which they and I thank you.:)

I would love to give them more Raw but like most I am a coward but I want to try if its better for them as that is my sole concern .So Nanette may I ask how many wings you feed how often, and what else do you feed as I am nervous also about over feeding .
I am getting another freezer next week just for the girls so will have a lot more space so I need help on going full raw with how much for each Cav and how often ,I am very methodical in feeding and carefully weigh everything to try and ensure I don't overfeed .
And thanks to all for all the varied good replies to my post ,I am more than willing to read and learn if it benefits my girls ,my mind is always open to all suggestions.

Tania
23rd July 2010, 10:17 PM
I always used to feed mine chicken wings until one day I saw one disappear down Molly whole :eek: fortunately it came straight back up. I have heard of dogs getting blockages and having all sorts of problems if given wings whole. Nicki posted on the 30th April under Cavalier Health and Diet, a warning, a dog almost choked to death on one.

I now chop them up (raw) with sharp garden scissors for peace of mind, the benefits will be the same..........please be careful.

HollyDolly
23rd July 2010, 10:27 PM
I have just spent 20 minutes replying to your post Brian and got timed out:mad:

I will reply again when I have cooled down

http://www.landywoods.co.uk/ Dog food

http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm how much to give


Nanette

HollyDolly
23rd July 2010, 10:29 PM
I now chop them up (raw) with sharp garden scissors for peace of mind, the benefits will be the same..........please be careful.


What about investing in a mincer?

Margaret C
23rd July 2010, 11:09 PM
I am getting another freezer next week just for the girls

Hello Brian,


I know you will do anything for your flower girls' comfort, and it has been a hot summer, but putting them in the freezer is probably going a bit too far.

waldor
24th July 2010, 04:18 AM
Hello Brian,


I know you will do anything for your flower girls' comfort, and it has been a hot summer, but putting them in the freezer is probably going a bit too far.

cl*p:rotfl:

Brian M
24th July 2010, 01:56 PM
Hello Margaret

Freezer ordered ,its frost free with a fast freeze facility so I hope they like it.:)

PS you did have me smiling with your comment this morning .:):)

Nicki
24th July 2010, 03:36 PM
Don't forget that Cavaliers do also scoot for attention :D

It's normal for them to have a small amount of fluid in the anal glands - it is excreted with the poo to add the scent that dogs delight in smelling.

With the three youngsters, I have one with one gland which seems to block, the others are fine. I think sometimes the hole is a bit small and it doesn't always empty as well as it should.



With bones, yes there were two King Charles and a Cavalier all DIED choking on chicken wings in the last few years. So it does need very close supervision, or as Tania suggested, chopping them up first with garden pruners {I couldn't find any dishwasher safe ones though Tania? :o:D}


I have found mine to be ok with chicken backs {the bit left after you've removed the legs, breast etc; leaving some meat} These are not as easy to bolt down as the wings, they require more chewing. I split a chicken in half - a rabbit carcase into three. The pruners are brilliant for splitting carcasses too :thmbsup:



Nanette, I struggled to find a mincer which would deal with chicken carcasses - it might be worth looking at the Britbarf list on Yahoo for further help, also for advice on mincers.

Kizzys Mum
24th July 2010, 07:03 PM
Nicki, just wondering where you get your chicken and rabbit carcasses from? We haven't had much luck with local butchers, so have been getting the chicken carcasses from Natural Instinct, but I'd be interested to know of other suppliers. I'm sure the dogs would love a bunny carcass too!

Brian M
24th July 2010, 08:30 PM
Hi

Today they all had their Natural Instinct breakfast then this afternoon I have given them breast of lamb which I bought from one of the butchers in Birkenhead market, they kindly chopped and cut it all up into Cavalier size pieces for me. I then trimmed off some excess fat and gave them two pieces each which had some meat and fat on together with some breast bone and some apple and their multi vitamin tablet with a teaspoon of pro biotic goats yogurt, and having just got in after their last walk they have just had for supper one strawberry each and some chilled water melon and two whitebait .While out I popped into Sainsbury's and bought some chicken wings which I will chop up into manageable pieces and try them with some tomorrow . A question please as I know nothing about food or cooking do I leave the skin on or take it off :confused:
I will only feed them chicken or lamb with bone while I am with them to watch and ensure they are all O K and only intend to part feed them these foods as an occasional alternative until I am sure in my own mind they are all happy which I am think they all will be.
Thank you Nanette for your kind reply and links as I need all the help and guidance I can get from all our resident experts and please advise me if I am making any silly mistakes .:)

I found these on my internet wandering.

http://www.mobilepetsuppliesltd.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=11

Love my Cavaliers
24th July 2010, 09:12 PM
Back to your very first post, Brian - could cavaliers scoot simply because they like it? Oliver has scooted almost from the day we got him as a pup. His vet says his glands are tucked way up, but even when they're emptied he comes homes and scoots again. No break for my boy!! He does it on the carpet, on the floor, the grass, the wooden deck (ouch - I always worry about splinters!!), the flagstone walk - no place is safe from my boy's butt. Luckily, he has never had an infection and I've never seen anything come out. But maybe that's why Oz likes to lick the carpet so much!!

Brian M
24th July 2010, 09:18 PM
Hi

Yes I agree they do scoot because they like it and it scaratches their bums as they scoot so its a cavalier thing just for enjoyment and if they do so good on them .:)

HollyDolly
24th July 2010, 11:09 PM
If any one wants to feed rabbit then have found this company, not cheap

http://www.woldsway.co.uk/

Rabbit is very gentle on tummies, good for sensitivities.

I know it is a real concern feeding chicken wings whole, I tend to buy mine from Morrisons and they are large not so easy to go down in one.

Brian join the http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/BritBarf/ some members have been feeding raw/bones for many years and are so informative and helpful, they have a files section which you can go through and find much information and also post questions.

I know what ever you decide to do your beautiful girls are in safe hands.:lotsaluv:

Nanette

Tania
24th July 2010, 11:17 PM
Hi

Yes I agree they do scoot because they like it and it scaratches their bums as they scoot so its a cavalier thing just for enjoyment and if they do so good on them .:)


Well perhaps instead of buying them a freezer you should employ a bum scratcher for the little darlings :jump:

Nicki
25th July 2010, 12:29 PM
We are in a very rural area so they actually shoot the rabbits around me and then drop them off...I had to learn to dress them myself :*gh: {especially hard as I'm vegetarian ;)} but it is worth it as they average 1kg in weight {meat and bones} after skinning and gutting.

Otherwise they just bin them :yikes which is a dreadful waste.



My Mother managed to buy rabbit at her local farmers' market in Norfolk - for 1.50 each which was cheap. I guess that they shoot them too and then sell them.


If you're in the countryside it's worth asking around - also if there is anyone locally who hunts with ferrets or birds of prey.


Chickens - I tend to buy whole chickens {hubby eats meat} and then cut them up. Although my local butcher sells chicken "backs" for 1.50 {the carcase and two wings} - but I leave more meat on mine.


Lamb ribs you can sometimes get free from meat wholesalers - also heart is cheap. We can also get ox "lights" which are lungs very cheap. They are not that nutritious though - but are great for drying in a low oven and feeding as a treat.


Obviously anything I buy raw I freeze for at least a week before feeding.

Chicken wings or thighs I leave the skin on {unless you have a Cavalier prone to weight gain or pancreatitis, then you need to remove as much skin as possible}. NEVER feed turkey skin, cooked or raw.


Heart is counted as a muscle meat, not offal.

We also feed raw tripe - which I buy from Pets at Home or a local independent pet shop, but it's expensive at 75 to 80p for 400g.

If you don't want to feed bones at all, you can use BioMineral http://www.luposan.de/en/biomineral.html which you can get from the Markus Muehle lady too.

We also use Markus Muehle dried food http://www.markus-muehle.de/en/naturnahfutter.htm which is one of the best dried foods I've found. You can obtain it direct from them, for 39 for a 15kg bag including delivery, which is very reasonable. I did the food grading system on it and it comes out as an A+.

Nicki
25th July 2010, 12:32 PM
Oliver has scooted almost from the day we got him as a pup.


I'm sorry but excessive scooting would worry me a bit - this does sound rather excessive :( and *may* not be anal gland problems.

Sometimes it is just attention seeking, but I think I would want to get it checked out - sadly many Syringomyelia affected dogs do scoot like this too. Obviously if it's the only symptom then chances are it is not the reason, but also not something to ignore...

Margaret C
25th July 2010, 06:54 PM
I'm sorry but excessive scooting would worry me a bit - this does sound rather excessive :( and *may* not be anal gland problems.

Sometimes it is just attention seeking, but I think I would want to get it checked out - sadly many Syringomyelia affected dogs do scoot like this too. Obviously if it's the only symptom then chances are it is not the reason, but also not something to ignore...

I would have concerns if excessive. Bum scooting can certainly be a SM symptom.

Sometimes scooting can just be due to soreness. Soft bowel motions can dry on the anus and some dogs find that uncomfortable.
It may be worth smearing a dab of vaseline on the affected area for a few days & see if that eases the symptoms.

Karlin
25th July 2010, 07:44 PM
Def agree they wouldn't be scooting because they like it -- it is an odd behaviour with a cause, and something is going on to cause a dog to feel it needs to move in this very strange way. It is quite weird behaviour when you think about it for a four-legged animal, and many cavaliers do seem to do this all the time.

For some I have no doubt at all that it is definitely anal glands, as they will stop once they are expressed. For some it may indicate a response to pain. For some, itchiness -- but it isn't normal for them to always have this itchiness either. Small breeds can have very small anal gland openings so they can fill and clog more easily -- hence small breeds get impacted and infected anal glands far more than medium to large breeds, according to vets. Dogs do try to empty them by dragging themselves along -- which is NOT great on carpets etc as what gives dog poo its characteristic strong stink is the stinky fluid that comes out of anal glands (if you have ever had this burst out of your dog, you will not forget the smell!). What they are smearing is the anal gland fluid -- ugh. So not something I really like mine doing in the house. Scooting could I think also in some dogs be related to flea allergy which often causes dogs to bite at their hindquarters.

Scooting is known to be connected to SM -- and one of my SM dogs rubs her behind back and forth against furniture so there's definitely some sort of discomfort in their hindquarters for some with this condition. Keep in mind that there's a fairly high degree of CM (at least 90% of cavaliers) and by all accounts SM in the breed (now estimated from research at 35-70%, but there will be some research figures coming out shortly that really put 'levels of breed affectedness' in shocking perspective :eek:) and I think a lot of these odd and seemingly quaint behaviours are probably actually related to discomfort. One of the most common symptoms described by humans with Chiari Malformation and/or SM is skin-crawling sensations and shooting pain. One woman with SM who also owns a cavalier with SM described her own discomfort as being like having rats running up and down the inside of her legs while biting them. Others have said the sensation is like having worms creeping beneath the skin. So unfortunately I have my own suspicions that the face rubbing and scooting that in many dogs (and many other breeds) is fairly innocuous or related only to anal glands is probably due to neurological discomfort -- probably fairly mild in most dogs who do this but almost certainly connected in some way to the fact that most have skulls slightly too small for their brains (the malformation) and so many also eventually develop syrinxes.

Brian M
26th July 2010, 09:42 PM
Hi

Since Saturday they have all been on 100 % raw and its all gone down no problem ,as I said prior I will feed over the next two weeks 50 % my preparation and 50 % Natural Instinct and keep an eye on their health and their poops and naturally any scooting


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/4831393883_172e0329b9_b.jpg

I think I have missed out the goats yogurt and the two sardines which went in later ,so we have lamb breast ,chicken wing ,apple,banana ,salmon oil ,shredded wheat one only ,cottage cheese ,bionic bionic ,one vitamin tablet,pinch of garlic powder and some N I tripe

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/4831391351_5a271500cd_b.jpg

HollyDolly
27th July 2010, 12:26 AM
Can I come for tea Brian?:rotfl:

Are you giving all that in one meal?
My two would only get for example:- small piece of lamb for breakfast then chicken wing for tea. Then next day maybe Heart for breakfast and tripe for tea. Lamb is very fattening so would restrict intake.

One of my previous dogs had trouble with anal glands and she developed excema round her bottom which also caused her to scoot, problem cured with anti-inflammotry cream.



Nanette

HollyDolly
27th July 2010, 01:08 AM
http://monsterchef.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=1


Mincer for chicken pieces with bone, they also have a site on ebay


Nanette

waldor
27th July 2010, 10:32 PM
I keep saying , , , if there is truly such a thing as reincarnation, I want to come back as one of Brian's Flower Power girls. :D

With Sophie, I rotate her meats every four days (which is a 2-lb pkge of her Oma's Pride). I learned to do that from reading some of the raw/home-prepared food forums. I won't mix the meats, as the constant daily exposure to the same protein source could lead to food allergies and she has enough of that already with non-meat items. Her meat sources are chicken, beef, turkey, lamb.

Your girls are very lucky dogs and they must love you to bits!

Brian M
28th July 2010, 08:52 AM
Hi Nanette and Waldor

I am OK now with my raw supply of chicken and lamb but what part of a turkey do I look for at the butchers and the same with beef which part .:confused: I have acquired a prof big meat cleaver and a big chopping block and Nanette am looking at that meat mincer/grinder I did read on one of the raw forums that one should freeze chicken for a week before using ,is that right ,and somebody wrote vegs grown above ground equal soft poohs but below ground ,root I presume mean firmer ones but to exclude potato,any thoughts on that.
Hi Waldor I would certainly like to rotate their meat source but I just need that bit more guidance and knowledge and to source my supply ,somehow I don't really fancy feeding Bugs Bunny .:(

Sabby
28th July 2010, 10:18 AM
In Bella's case its getting the clock face off the ground :)

:rotfl:

Nicki
28th July 2010, 10:36 AM
Thanks for that Nanette, that's brilliant

E-bay link if anyone wants it

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heavy-Duty-Meat-Grinder-Mincer-Sausage-Filler-NEW-/180529273541?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item2a08621ac5


Think it will be cheaper in the long run than buying from Natural Instinct etc - especially as there is a problem with delivery to me in that it usually takes 2 days, which is no good for frozen foods :( Most people like Berriewoods won't deliver this far North :mad: