View Full Version : What Do You Think Of August?
12th August 2010, 06:19 PM
Firstly, please try not to judge me too harshly, though I completely understand if you do. I bought August from someone who was in need of the money (greatly discounted) for various reasons, and despite how stupid it was to do so - he is my responsibility now, so I am living with my poor decision.
Basically, I wish to know what you think about August being 100% pure Cavalier.
Here is a simple time line to sum things up (as I managed to lose the text of my original post, thanks Firefox!):
-July 15th, contacted "breeder" whose information read, "Wormed and vet checked. Partly house trainned. Both parents can be seen. I have mums papers cant find dads hence the price. Ready to go"
-July 16th - August 1st, communicated various times via phone with the "breeder." Became apparent that it was an accidental breeding, and I saw these photos:
The Mother and August:
I was immediately worried about the very long muzzle and the fact that he just did not look right at all, but my partner did not understand my concerns so I thought that I was just being silly and we decided to take the plunge and go and get August on the 1st.
-August 1st, we went and met the man and his dogs. Both 'parents' were lovely, looked great examples of the breed and were very sweet and well-kept. I absolutely fell in love with August upon sight, so all was well (saw the Mother's pedigree papers, the fact that they had lost the Father's in their recent moved seemed believable) and off we went.
-August 2nd and onwards, my concerns about his appearance remained and I kept politely questioning his purity as a Cavalier. The "breeder" said that the breeding was purely accidental (AKA 'irresponsible'), that the male 'got out' and ended up 'knotting' the female and he has not changed his story at all despite my obvious concerns about August not looking like other Cavalier puppies. (I've even bumped into a Cavalier owner and had them be surprised when they asked what breed he was!)
He has just turned 15-weeks-old, and things will be much clearer when he is an adult and I can see the full extent of his hair growth, size, muzzle, etc. but in the mean time I was wondering what you all think.
Either way, I love him to bits and fully accept responsibility for what has happened, so I just wish to move on and do the best I can with what I have.
Thanks so much in advance!
Here he is:
And a video:
12th August 2010, 06:36 PM
August is adorable! And it sounds like he has a fantastic home. :)
Don't be too hard on yourself -- there are people out there who are not very reputable. I think you probably encountered such a person.
There are two options: the 'parents' as shown are definitely full cavalier. There could be a small chance that somewhere in the background of one was a cross that has resurfaced in August -- this can happen but I think it pretty unlikely.
The other option is more likely the case I think, given the line about the man not being able to find the father's papers etc... (which conveniently means he cannot register August). I would guess he is probably a little jack russell/cavalier cross -- his legs and muzzle to me look like that might be the mix. I see quite a lot of cavalier crosses out and about as a lot of Irish people do not spay/neuter their dogs and cavaliers are a popular breed -- hence the crosses.
I would check to see if the breeder is either registering puppies with the kennel Club or is a CKCS Breed Club member -- as then, you can file a complaint. You may be able to go through small claims to for fraud. I would not give August back under any circumstances and it doesn't sound as if you would ever be willing to! But I think you have a case for demanding your money back or at least some of it.
We are happy to have crosses here too :). I rehome a few through my cavalier rescue too, now and again!
12th August 2010, 06:38 PM
I have to say whether August is 100% a cavalier or if he is a cross breed, he is ADORABLE!! :luv: Can I have him??
to me he looks like a cross breed either with a Jack Russell or maybe a beagle type, but who cares he is a stunner, and you & him are happy, and he will give you loads of years of love and kisses! His nose and eyes are very JRT, but there is something about him that reminds me of a Beagle-but honestly what do I know?
I am true believer that our dogs pick us and not the other way around, so for whatever reason, August sent messages to you for you to find him! Congratulations on your new puppy
12th August 2010, 06:45 PM
Hello, firstly let me say how cute your puppy is and looks very sweet natured in the video.
I think he may have something other than Cavalier in him, I'm going on the muzzle and short legs. I think maybe Jack Russell? I wouldn't worry, there is nothing you can do now. Just try to put it out of your mind and if it makes you feel any better say he's a Cavalier cross. Sorry if that's not the answer you were hoping for. :flwr:
12th August 2010, 06:47 PM
I'm definitely going to think long and hard about what I will eventually do about this, in regards to the "breeder." As I find it so unlikely that August is pure Cavalier, and the chance of deception seems so high every time I look at his little face.
I feel somewhat betrayed, but at the same time cannot be too bothered because he's such a perfect little guy.
I agree with the Jack Russell sentiment! His muzzle and face in general seem very Jack Russell-ish to me, and as he gets older hopefully his size will tell a little more in that regard.
As for Beagle.. Well, a woman yesterday said that she thought he looked part Daschund. :-| I haven't got a clue! XD
12th August 2010, 06:49 PM
His colouring would suit JRT too. He has a dreamy little face! :lol:
I think he will be a fun mix -- all the fun and activity of a jrt, and the sweetness of a cavalier!
12th August 2010, 06:55 PM
I decided to contact the "breeder" with this message,
E-mailing you as my partner (who has been the one texting you previously) is at work at the moment.
Whilst I desperately wish to believe that August (the puppy) was the result of an accidental breeding between your Cavaliers (who look perfect examples of the breed), he is very obviously not a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, but a cross of some kind.
Whilst there is a chance that there could be some cross-breeding in the Father's history (suggesting that you deceived me about his pedigree), or your female has been mated by another dog.
What that other breed is is a mystery, hopefully as August grows it shall become more obvious, but currently both his face (muzzle especially) and body suggest perhaps part Jack Russell. (Some have suggested maybe even a bit of Beagle or Daschund.)
As such, I wish to hear the truth. I will not be returning August as I love him regardless, however I may wish to seek some form of compensation. I would love to give you the chance to explain, though. (It would be interesting to hear the opinions of the owners of the other puppies, too.)
Sincerest apologies if I am wrong, but it seems immensely unlikely.
I await your response."
It bothers me quite a lot not to have a full Cavalier, as I did so much research into the breed and chose it especially as they suit my lifestyle so much, but I know that I will not regret owning August.
My parents had a JRT cross when I was a kid, and she was the most amazing dog.
12th August 2010, 09:19 PM
I think your email is very good!! People should be honest about their puppies!
That aside, August looks lovely- I think as others definately a cross but a smashing puppy too.
I have a friend who wanted a cavalier puppy. She ended up with a cross (Knowingly) Her Barney looks like a large Jack Russell with blenheim markings including his spot!! He's been a fantastic dog and is still going strong at 15! We had a conversation the other day about him and the fact that a pure Cav would probably not make that age or be as sprightly so she's had her lovely dog for a lovely long time :))
August looks far more Cav than my friends dog, maybe in a few years you can get him a Cavvie friend?? Cassie and my Barney are lovely together......Take care, Teresa...xx
12th August 2010, 09:31 PM
P.S liked the wine glass and pringles in your video!! Looks like my house on a Saturday night!! :))
12th August 2010, 11:55 PM
I think August is just beautiful :lotsaluv:and looks like is a lovely gentle boy. I agree that he may be crossed with a JR but the most important thing is that you love him and he's obviously got a wonderful home. I also think that he'll be a smart cookie. I think you're right to pursue the so called breeder and understand that you feel cheated. Give that gorgeous puppy a kiss from me.
12th August 2010, 11:56 PM
I wouldn't worry too much, enjoy August, he is a lovely little fellow with a cheeky little grin. You are lucky to have found him and it sounds as though August has landed on his lucky little paws to have found you. Good luck :D
13th August 2010, 05:38 AM
August is adorable!! What a sweet face. Could be just be a "poorly" (I hate that term!!!) bred Cavalier. It'll be interesting to see what he looks like when he grows up. I have an "unusual" Cavalier myself. Look at my avatar photo and notice my little man has no brown, a longer nose and is very long bodied. He came from a litter of six (two regularly marked tris and 4 mismarked). I can't wait to see what he looks like when he grows up. He is an absolutely pistol and so much fun. I say Micah is a "Cavalier, just not a great example of what the breed should look like but that only makes us love him more".
13th August 2010, 06:09 AM
Awwww, August is absolutely adorable....He looks like he is so much fun. What a treasure.
13th August 2010, 02:42 PM
August is gorgeous :luv: I look forward to you posting more photos as he gets older, and hearing all about him :grin:.
13th August 2010, 03:15 PM
Awwww he's beautiful! I can understand your concern because you're entitled to know the full story. He looks full cavalier to me, but maybe just maybe there might be a tinge of Jack Russell there, the nose is shaped like one and the markings would be the similar... how is his temperament? Jacks have a distinctively different character from cavaliers, where Jacks are lively and cavaliers are sweet but they're nice just the same.
Someone might correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a blood test you can get to see what percentage of breed he is, etc. I would imagine something like that would be expensive enough though.
Good Luck with August. He's lovely.
14th August 2010, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the replies, everyone!
Personality-wise he is very sweet, but also a bit loopy and ignorant. XD
The guy's response:
"i can honestly say that alfie my red white cav is the father they only knotted once and charlie doesn't go anywhere only to the yard. I have contacted where i got the male from for duplicte paper's which when i recieve i.ll send to you. I would never sell something as it wasn't. Other people that have had the puppies have sent message sayin how happy they are and how wounderful little dogs they are how they settled in well. I'm sorry you feel that way. How can i deceive you when i have only told u the truth. The father was brought for 450pound as a pedigree and the mother was 700pound as she was black and tan. I had no intention of breeding they are just pet's"
And my own:
"I completely understand, I truly do, and if you could send me copies of the parents pedigree ASAP that would be wonderful.
However, you must understand that this puppy does not look pure Cavalier at all, he looks so distinctly like a cross-breed, specifically with very Jack Russell Terrier features."
Hopefully I'm not being too harsh.
14th August 2010, 02:41 PM
I have to say he is very cute even if he is a not 100% Cavalier! In my opinion I would guess he is a Dachshund X Cavalier Cross...
There is a DNA test you can have done to see what breeds he is... It doesn't show ALL breeds.... But it does show the most common ones. It's not very expensive either. (*Just pointing out that Cavaliers are NOT in the data base for the DNA but we can tell that he has cavalier in him. It does however show Beagles, Dachshunds and over 60 other breeds. So if you did the DNA test it would tell you what breeds show up in his DNA out of the 60+ breeds that are in there database. *)
Here is a UK link:
Here is a USA link: (If you go here you can find other international companies as well)
I've never done the DNA testing before (but i want to on my Shepard Mix). I have heard very good things about it. Also there may be other companies out there if you do an internet search for "DNA Dog Breed Testing" you should get several results.
About his breeding... It COULD be possible that a second male dog bred the mom while she was still in season. I'm not an expert at dog breeding but as I recall dogs can conceive puppies from several different sires during a season. Maybe that one puppy has DNA from an "Unknown" male. Since it was "Accident" in the first place I would not be surprised if a 2nd male "Accidentally" got in the yard and maybe was even unnoticed!
And don't feel bad about how you got him! What matters is you love him! I spent nearly 2 years researching and planing on my "perfect" Cavalier.. I was going to get a female from a reputable breeder and hopefully start showing her in AKC & UKC shows! That was the plan........ Well as it turned out I stumbled on the most perfect little boy who stole my heart the second I saw him! He didn't come from a very "reputable" breeder. In fact after further research (after I bought him) I believe he came from a puppy farm. I am VERY concerned he may have the early symptoms of health issues and will be seeing a specialist about it shortly... But I love him so much that I wouldn't trade him for anything! I love him just how he is!
I hope to see more pictures of August as he grows! If you get the DNA testing done let us know what it says!!
14th August 2010, 06:35 PM
I don't think it matters if he's a mix! He's adorable! Keep the photos coming!
14th August 2010, 10:14 PM
" alfie my red white cav is the father "
Whatever little mix he is - he is absolutely gorgeous, I think CKCS X JR are adorable..
And the chap who sold you your puppy doesn't even know the word "blenheim" obviously..
14th August 2010, 10:16 PM
I have had multiple Cavaliers since 1983, bred 8 litters and seen, many, many pups both at show and out and about on a more or less constant basis. At present I have five, which is about my usual number.
I must say that I have never, ever, seen a pure bred Cavalier looking like August or ever heard of anyone I know breeding one with such short legs or long muzzle. I think you have been misled about the father. If the truth is known the bitch may have got out during her fertile time and mated with whatever dog she found ready and willing to serve her.
You said that the breeder needed the money and I think he is telling porkies because he thinks that if he brazens it out long enough you will give up and he will get away with it, laughing all the way to the bank, the rent office, loan shark or whatever he needs the money for.
He has committed his story to writing, but having parentage tests and then seeking legal advice are costly and unless you know he has money in the bank or valuable property for the bailiff to seize, even if you win a court case, you are not likely to get back one penny piece of all that you have paid out.
Having said all that isn't the most important thing here that August and you found each other and you have the most gorgeous little chap to share your life and love with. I think he looks absolutely adorable.
15th August 2010, 04:14 PM
Some times you just need to go with your gut instinct. I agree, that he definately is not a 100% cavalier BUT he is gorgeous none the less :)
I would try to get over the whole episode and not let it eat you up, What's done is done and there is nothing you can do about it that will remedy the situation. You have him now and love him dearly (he looks so cuddly).
It is sad that you were decieved (and I am sure the Breeder would have known) BUT, you have a wonderful little fella in August. Enjoy him :)
28th August 2010, 12:34 PM
As for Beagle.. Well, a woman yesterday said that she thought he looked part Daschund. :-| I haven't got a clue! XD
that first pic that you have with the guy and the pup, the pup looks like a daschund, we have a daschund and your pup body shape looks very much the same, still very cute
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