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Tania
21st August 2010, 08:33 PM
A few photos, I delievered the Rupert Leaflets. Then spent a few hours watching :p

I have a couple from the showring but I havn't posted as I am not sure if I am allowed to.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4913272893_e4ba0a389c.jpg








http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4913861762_50e73f6b7e.jpg



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4913260753_ba46a884d8.jpg



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4913286943_5a0d72b4ce.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4913233635_215af89b0b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4913242593_80196d8736.jpg

Brian M
21st August 2010, 08:43 PM
Hi T

Did anybody say hello and did you know anybody and did you introduce yourself ,I bet it was good I wish I could have gone and seen all those superb Cavaliers and loads of them .:D

sins
21st August 2010, 08:53 PM
Well done on delivering the Rupert leaflets.The venue looks wonderful,in spite of the clouds...should be a fantastic weekend.
Sins

Tania
21st August 2010, 09:05 PM
Hi T

Did anybody say hello and did you know anybody and did you introduce yourself ,I bet it was good I wish I could have gone and seen all those superb Cavaliers and loads of them .:D


I mainly sat outside and chatted to some cavalier pet folk . I don't really know anyone in the show world.

Karen and Ruby
21st August 2010, 09:28 PM
I so badly wanted to go but my car failed an MOT .:(

Brian M
21st August 2010, 09:35 PM
Hi

We must devise some sort of badge just for our members so we know each other ,friend or foe ,any ideas

Tania
21st August 2010, 09:48 PM
Hi

We must devise some sort of badge just for our members so we know each other ,friend or foe ,any ideas


A Badge with "CT" on it :-D

Kate H
22nd August 2010, 05:10 PM
I'm just about recovered from my epic day yesterday, so I'll give my impressions of Blenheim and then have go at downloading my photos (in spite of Karlin's careful instructions, I'm still not good at reducing size!).

The day was a bit epic because I was travelling from Coventry to Blenheim by bus. Lots of rain in Warwickshire - which made me wonder why I bothered to bath 2 dogs on Friday, but it was worth it when they dried out and had lovely silky coats. Got to Leamington all right via 2 buses, then got on a third bus to Stratford - driven by a driver who had never done the route before; one wrong turn, directed back onto the right road by the passengers! Then the windscreen wipers failed - in pouring rain - so every so often he had to stop, get out and wipe the windscreen clear... Finally got to Stratford (still raining hard), found the next bus (to Chipping Norton in Oxfordshire), got on - and it promptly broke down (beginning to think I have a bus jinx!). 45 minutes later we got started, arrived at Chipping Norton - and Oxfordshire was dry! Caught a bus to Woodstock, a short walk to Blenheim Palace, and we finally arrived an hour later than planned.

Still in time to enter the fun dog show, so Oliver did Musical Newspapers (made very complicated by gusts of wind blowing the newspapers everywhere!) and Aled did The Dog the Judge Would Like to Take Home (fortunately she didn't want my Aled!). The weather was sunny but windy - ideal for the dogs. There was a big marquee, with indoor rings for the Cavalier/Charlie match and other events, and lots of stands - a display of the dogs who had won BIS at the Club Ch show since 1954, a bookstall, a Health Information Table (saw Tania's leaflets), a tombola, the auction stuff, a raffle of a lovely quilt depicting Cavaliers (auction and raffle proceeds both going to health research), and a few of the usual trade stands.

Outside there was a ring for the fun classes, which was also used for a demonstration by the Clever Cavaliers display team, and for a parade of the finalists for Companion Cavalier of the Year (which Oliver was in). A lot of the prominent breeders were helping with the organisation, so not many top show dogs around, but quite a lot of the smaller show breeders there, enjoying their dogs. It's a pity Tania couldn't stay until lunchtime, because then she could have seen Oliver and I strutting our stuff and identified a fellow CT-er! Because I've shown Oliver in the past, and still go to Club shows (mainly to get free heart checks!), I knew several people and sat with friends, which was mutually useful for dog-holding and photo-taking! Oliver's breeder was there - on crutches; she had a knee operation and the hospital managed to break her leg in the process!

Lots of people from overseas, and quite a lot of pet owners who had heard about it and just come along.


Highlights of the day for me:

My little Aled not only coping with a crowd and about 150 Cavaliers, but really enjoying himself - playing (flirting!) with passing Cavaliers, being fussed, behaving impeccably in the ring, staying with strangers when I was busy with Oliver without a murmur, spending hours on buses - he was great.
The couple from the Czech Republic that I met on the train back from the Malvern show last year and met again at Stoneleigh this year, who came and said hello and gave me a 2011 Cavalier calendar (in Czech!).
At the end of the Clever Cavaliers display (which finished with some agility), everybody - pet owners and show people alike - piling into the ring to have a go on the agility equipment.
The Fancy Dress class, which included a Goldilocks (a Blenheim in a curly wig) with three teddy bears! Winner was a black and tan with head framed in rose petals and sitting on a plant pot - a Dog Rose!
Taking Oliver into the ring for the Cavalier of the Year parade - the winner was a girl from a family whose 16-year-old son had been badly injured - Abbie has accompanied and supported him every step of his rehab, a very worthy winner. Oliver got a certificate, a toy and a bag of Royal Canin CKCS food.
The number of breeders I spoke to who are now routinely scanning their breeding stock (and almost all of whom have at least one dog with SM, which is really waking them up to reality). The more these breeders encourage other breeders to scan, the better!
The several people I spoke to (including on the Health Table) who expressed deep appreciation for Rupert's Fund.
Buying Dennis and Tina Holmes' new book, 'The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel: The Origin and Founding of the Breed' - absolutely fascinating, with a lot of photos I'd never seen before, and copies of the original KC registration forms for the earliest dogs (some with parents frankly labelled 'Crossbreed'!). It costs 8 and should be available through the bookshop on the Cavalier Club website.
Having a chat with Dennis Holmes (Leogem) who organised the Cavalier of the Year; he praised Cavalier Talk for its info and support for owners with SM Cavaliers, and said what a shame it was, with CT and CC, that just a few nasty people spoil things (not all on one side!). His very handsome young dog (18 months and scanned A) has just won its first CC and people are already asking to use him at stud(!), and Dennis is saying no ways, not until he is at least 2.5 and rescanned clear. I really think there is a little puff of a wind of change...
Chatting to the owner of an antique shop in Woodstock, who came out to say hello to my dogs. He'd heard about the Cavalier weekend and cannily got in a stock of antique Staffordshire dogs and had been gobsmacked by his sales - many of them, he said, to breeders and judges from overseas.
The Japanese family who stopped to make a great fuss of the dogs while I was waiting for the bus in Woodstock, including a blind boy who loved the feel of their silky coats.
The driver on the bus home who when I produced my pass and 1 for the dogs' fare (50p each), looked at Oliver and Aled and asked how old they were, and when I said (slightly mystified!) 9 and 3, said with a completely straight face 'That's all right, dogs under 10 go free'!
We left home at 6.30 am and got home at 9.45 pm, and I have two very tired dogs today (not to mention a rather tired human!). But it was a good day.

I'll have a go at my photos tonight!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Bet
22nd August 2010, 08:06 PM
I'm just about recovered from my epic day yesterday, so I'll give my impressions of Blenheim and then have go at downloading my photos (in spite of Karlin's careful instructions, I'm still not good at reducing size!).

The day was a bit epic because I was travelling from Coventry to Blenheim by bus. Lots of rain in Warwickshire - which made me wonder why I bothered to bath 2 dogs on Friday, but it was worth it when they dried out and had lovely silky coats. Got to Leamington all right via 2 buses, then got on a third bus to Stratford - driven by a driver who had never done the route before; one wrong turn, directed back onto the right road by the passengers! Then the windscreen wipers failed - in pouring rain - so every so often he had to stop, get out and wipe the windscreen clear... Finally got to Stratford (still raining hard), found the next bus (to Chipping Norton in Oxfordshire), got on - and it promptly broke down (beginning to think I have a bus jinx!). 45 minutes later we got started, arrived at Chipping Norton - and Oxfordshire was dry! Caught a bus to Woodstock, a short walk to Blenheim Palace, and we finally arrived an hour later than planned.

Still in time to enter the fun dog show, so Oliver did Musical Newspapers (made very complicated by gusts of wind blowing the newspapers everywhere!) and Aled did The Dog the Judge Would Like to Take Home (fortunately she didn't want my Aled!). The weather was sunny but windy - ideal for the dogs. There was a big marquee, with indoor rings for the Cavalier/Charlie match and other events, and lots of stands - a display of the dogs who had won BIS at the Club Ch show since 1954, a bookstall, a Health Information Table (saw Tania's leaflets), a tombola, the auction stuff, a raffle of a lovely quilt depicting Cavaliers (auction and raffle proceeds both going to health research), and a few of the usual trade stands.

Outside there was a ring for the fun classes, which was also used for a demonstration by the Clever Cavaliers display team, and for a parade of the finalists for Companion Cavalier of the Year (which Oliver was in). A lot of the prominent breeders were helping with the organisation, so not many top show dogs around, but quite a lot of the smaller show breeders there, enjoying their dogs. It's a pity Tania couldn't stay until lunchtime, because then she could have seen Oliver and I strutting our stuff and identified a fellow CT-er! Because I've shown Oliver in the past, and still go to Club shows (mainly to get free heart checks!), I knew several people and sat with friends, which was mutually useful for dog-holding and photo-taking! Oliver's breeder was there - on crutches; she had a knee operation and the hospital managed to break her leg in the process!

Lots of people from overseas, and quite a lot of pet owners who had heard about it and just come along.


Highlights of the day for me:

My little Aled not only coping with a crowd and about 150 Cavaliers, but really enjoying himself - playing (flirting!) with passing Cavaliers, being fussed, behaving impeccably in the ring, staying with strangers when I was busy with Oliver without a murmur, spending hours on buses - he was great.
The couple from the Czech Republic that I met on the train back from the Malvern show last year and met again at Stoneleigh this year, who came and said hello and gave me a 2011 Cavalier calendar (in Czech!).
At the end of the Clever Cavaliers display (which finished with some agility), everybody - pet owners and show people alike - piling into the ring to have a go on the agility equipment.
The Fancy Dress class, which included a Goldilocks (a Blenheim in a curly wig) with three teddy bears! Winner was a black and tan with head framed in rose petals and sitting on a plant pot - a Dog Rose!
Taking Oliver into the ring for the Cavalier of the Year parade - the winner was a girl from a family whose 16-year-old son had been badly injured - Abbie has accompanied and supported him every step of his rehab, a very worthy winner. Oliver got a certificate, a toy and a bag of Royal Canin CKCS food.
The number of breeders I spoke to who are now routinely scanning their breeding stock (and almost all of whom have at least one dog with SM, which is really waking them up to reality). The more these breeders encourage other breeders to scan, the better!
The several people I spoke to (including on the Health Table) who expressed deep appreciation for Rupert's Fund.
Buying Dennis and Tina Holmes' new book, 'The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel: The Origin and Founding of the Breed' - absolutely fascinating, with a lot of photos I'd never seen before, and copies of the original KC registration forms for the earliest dogs (some with parents frankly labelled 'Crossbreed'!). It costs 8 and should be available through the bookshop on the Cavalier Club website.
Having a chat with Dennis Holmes (Leogem) who organised the Cavalier of the Year; he praised CavalierI did have the Talk for its info and support for owners with SM Cavaliers, and said what a shame it was, with CT and CC, that just a few nasty people spoil things (not all on one side!). His very handsome young dog (18 months and scanned A) has just won its first CC and people are already asking to use him at stud(!), and Dennis is saying no ways, not until he is at least 2.5 and rescanned clear. I really think there is a little puff of a wind of change...
Chatting to the owner of an antique shop in Woodstock, who came out to say hello to my dogs. He'd heard about the Cavalier weekend and cannily got in a stock of antique Staffordshire dogs and had been gobsmacked by his sales - many of them, he said, to breeders and judges from overseas.
The Japanese family who stopped to make a great fuss of the dogs while I was waiting for the bus in Woodstock, including a blind boy who loved the feel of their silky coats.
The driver on the bus home who when I produced my pass and 1 for the dogs' fare (50p each), looked at Oliver and Aled and asked how old they were, and when I said (slightly mystified!) 9 and 3, said with a completely straight face 'That's all right, dogs under 10 go free'!
We left home at 6.30 am and got home at 9.45 pm, and I have two very tired dogs today (not to mention a rather tired human!). But it was a good day.

I'll have a go at my photos tonight!

Kate, Oliver and Aled


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

In case any-one is interested in the early days of our Cavaliers, I did have the Original Registration of the Card which said that the Parents were Cross-Bred

This was sent to me by Margaret Barnes ,who is still alive to-day, she had mated a Cavalier B/T called CREST By CANDLELIGHT to a Cocker Spaniel Bitch called Suntop Joyful hoping to give the Cavaliers Healthier and Longer Lives which were in the Cocker Spaniel Suntop Line.

This was in the early 1950's.

After 3 Generations of Breeding back to Cavaliers ,the Third Generation was Eligible to be Registered by the Kennel Club as Cavaliers.

SUNTOP SPILLIKEN born 1952.

Also Suntop Red Riding Hood, born 1952

Suntop Peggoty born 1954.

These were some of the Cross- bred Cavaliers at that time.

As a piece of Information a Cavalier who was Recently MRI Scanned did not have CM/SM ,and the Pedigree could be traced back to this Mating by the Cocker Spaniel SUNTOP JOYFUL

I have now passed on the Folder with all this information to Carol ,who has done so much to make the Cavalier World aware of the SM Problem in the Cavalier Breed.

Bet

Kate H
22nd August 2010, 08:18 PM
Hope these give you a taste of Blenheim! I've made them a bit small but hope you can see them...

Kate, Oliver and Aled

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4916478073_f545a75b96_m.jpg
Clever Cavaliers doing stays

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4917075206_1816aedf72_m.jpg

Retrieving a balloon tied to a dumbell - I intend to teach Oliver to do this!


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4916475627_55560210e6_m.jpg
General view

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4916474947_7839c9e82b_m.jpg
Have a Go Agility - everyone had a go!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4916475153_c48dfd8549_m.jpg
Cavalier of the Year final - Kate and Oliver
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4917075818_1464312348_m.jpg
Cavalier of the Year - Kate and Oliver being interviewed by Dennis Holmes

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4916475899_1e7a25f8eb_m.jpg
Fancy Dress class

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4916476117_81efb3bc03_m.jpg
Goldilocks and the three bears!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4917077312_671b9e81ee_m.jpg
My friend Philippa with Lollipop Lady on the left and Pirate on the right

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4917076918_a18153e44e_m.jpg
Winner of the Fancy Dress - The Dog Rose!

Karlin
22nd August 2010, 09:36 PM
Thanks so much for your posts Kate, and all the pics -- really wonderful to see all the dogs. The Clever Cavaliers cavalier precision team have been very generous supporters of Rupert's Fund; I would love to see one of their performances and that must have been a treat! :)

The Dog Rose is very cute. :lol:

Thanks Bet for the early history details! :)

Brian M
22nd August 2010, 10:41 PM
Hi

It looked absolutely wonderful ,oh I wish I went and I would have enjoyed every minute and even meeting people off CC .With regard to the club auction I was in the lead with four items so I wait for the actual auction on the day to see If I actually won any ,if I do there is one I would like to keep and the other three cold be raffled on CT over a period of time ,proceeds of coarse to Rupert's Fund ,but first I have to see if I did win any .

Ref " For The Love Of Ollie " I have not heard from Lucille who wanted the book first so I shall wait till close of play on Wed then if nothing would anybody else like it for a small donation to RF then once read if that person can pass it round again CT members only please.
bri

Kate H
23rd August 2010, 11:35 AM
It looked absolutely wonderful ,oh I wish I went and I would have enjoyed every minute

You'll have to get more adventurous, Brian! If an OAP like me can travel for four hours each way (five in the morning because of the bus breaking down) on four buses there and back, I'm sure you could manage to whizz down a couple of motorways! Hope you get your auction things.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Margaret C
23rd August 2010, 12:16 PM
Thanks so much for your posts Kate, and all the pics -- really wonderful to see all the dogs. The Clever Cavaliers cavalier precision team have been very generous supporters of Rupert's Fund; I would love to see one of their performances and that must have been a treat! :)

The Dog Rose is very cute. :lol:

Thanks Bet for the early history details! :)

I have heard from one of the Clever Cavalier team who tells me there is another generous donation, collected at the Blenheim show, on the way to Rupert's Fund.

Such remarkable dogs & ownerscl*p

Karlin
23rd August 2010, 02:18 PM
:w*w:

They deserve a special mention as they have donated several times, very generously, and it is wonderful that they again have chosen to collect donations after a performance for Rupert's Fund. Their collection at the Blenheim show is also a great symbol of the support from such a wide swathe of cavalier lovers to help combat syringomyelia in our favourite breed -- breeders, pet owners, aficionados, and secret cavalier admirers! :)

I also want to say thanks to the several board members who have recently sent in very large fundraising donations as well. Once these are totalled for a full amount I will give a public thanks, and we will up our RF official total! b*n*n* I kn ow Penny is away at the moment so need to wait for her official tally as she tracks all donations and lets me know when there can be a public thank you. :)

And of course a special thanks to the board members who took Rupert's Fund leaflets and talked to people while there -- the one on one contact and the presence of some supporters and fundraisers is often the very best way to raise awareness generally and answer people's questions. :D

Cathy T
23rd August 2010, 05:32 PM
Loved reading that Kate!!! You made it sound so real for me all the over here! Great pictures and loved reading the highlights of your trip. The blind boy who enjoyed the silk coats.....so sweet.

Bet
24th August 2010, 11:51 AM
:w*w:

They deserve a special mention as they have donated several times, very generously, and it is wonderful that they again have chosen to collect donations after a performance for Rupert's Fund. Their collection at the Blenheim show is also a great symbol of the support from such a wide swathe of cavalier lovers to help combat syringomyelia in our favourite breed -- breeders, pet owners, aficionados, and secret cavalier admirers! :)

I also want to say thanks to the several board members who have recently sent in very large fundraising donations as well. Once these are totalled for a full amount I will give a public thanks, and we will up our RF official total! b*n*n* I kn ow Penny is away at the moment so need to wait for her official tally as she tracks all donations and lets me know when there can be a public thank you. :)

And of course a special thanks to the board members who took Rupert's Fund leaflets and talked to people while there -- the one on one contact and the presence of some supporters and fundraisers is often the very best way to raise awareness generally and answer people's questions. :D


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I have put this on my BLOG ,and think it could be of interest on this Thread.

After Reading the Posts about the Blenheim Palace Cavalier Show at the Week-End,I think the best thing to have come from it is that the Cavalier Pet Buying Public have now been made so aware about the SM and MVD Problems in our Cavaliers.

Also that there were Pamphlets being distributed about RUPERT'S FUND.

This is so important for our Cavalier Breed , that those SM and MVD Genes must be found ,then the Carriers of those Two Diseases have a chance of being discovered ,this is the only way that the Cavalier Breed will have a FUTURE.

In the mean-time ,Prospective Cavalier Buyers MUST ask to see a Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder to Prove that Health Tests are being carried out on their Cavalier Breeding Stock .

Also, this is so Important as well,that Buyers of Cavaliers must ask the Cavalier Breeder the Age when the Cavalier Breeding Stock is being Mated and if the Health Status of the Grand-Parents is known.

If the Cavalier Breeder cannot supply the Answer to those Questions ,then go to a Cavalier Breed who can.

The CKCS CLUB'S RECOMMENDED BREEDING GUIDELINES FOR SM AND MVD ARE.

NO CAVALIER TO BE BRED FROM BEFORE 2.5 YEARS OF AGE .

THE HEALTH STATUS OF THE GRAND-PARENTS TO BE KNOWN AT 5 YEARS OF AGE

Bet

Karlin
24th August 2010, 07:58 PM
If health issues were highlighted, that is a plus for all, including (and especially) the breed.

It is a shame -- and rather shocking -- to see elsewhere though that there's a picture of the woman, a former cavalier breeder and judge, who was convicted a while ago of 83 counts of animal cruelty when 83 cavaliers and other small breed dogs were found by the RSPCA in an appalling state in her home and had to be taken into care.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/688360.stm
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Cruel+Crufts+judge+lived+in+squalor+with+83+dogs.-a060816751
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19100766.html

She is sitting at the book signing table!... And she is now reinstated as a judge -- having judged a show not long after Pedigree Dogs Exposed aired.

And yet we keep hearing from some breeders about how there is too much focus on breed health and not enough on puppy farmers/mass breeders who keep dogs in horrendous conditions, and who apparently are not prosecuted -- yet it is the breed clubs and breeders who rushed to defend this woman... as far as I can tell this is one of the highest numbers of animal cruelty charges ever successfully brought against an individual in the UK. :? I have seen actual puppy farm situations in Ireland that were more humane than the pictures accompanying this article.

Bet
25th August 2010, 09:25 AM
If health issues were highlighted, that is a plus for all, including (and especially) the breed.

It is a shame -- and rather shocking -- to see elsewhere though that there's a picture of the woman, a former cavalier breeder and judge, who was convicted a while ago of 83 counts of animal cruelty when 83 cavaliers and other small breed dogs were found by the RSPCA in an appalling state in her home and had to be taken into care.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/688360.stm
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Cruel+Crufts+judge+lived+in+squalor+with+83+dogs.-a060816751
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19100766.html

She is sitting at the book signing table!... And she is now reinstated as a judge -- having judged a show not long after Pedigree Dogs Exposed aired.

And yet we keep hearing from some breeders about how there is too much focus on breed health and not enough on puppy farmers/mass breeders who keep dogs in horrendous conditions, and who apparently are not prosecuted -- yet it is the breed clubs and breeders who rushed to defend this woman... as far as I can tell this is one of the highest numbers of animal cruelty charges ever successfully brought against an individual in the UK. :? I have seen actual puppy farm situations in Ireland that were more humane than the pictures accompanying this article.

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I believe that she will be Judging in America shortly.

Yes I do wish that we could get an exact figure of Cavaliers from Puppy Farms in the MVD DATA List,I am not sticking up for the Puppy Farms, I hate those Places, but I will say again ,that the Cavalier Breeders cannot blame all the MVD Problem in Cavaliers on the Puppy Farms.

That many of the Cavaliers are examined at Cavalier Shows will be Cavalier belonging to CKCS CLUB Members, and not Cavaliers from Puppy Farms.

So perhaps it's time that some Cavalier Breeders owned up to this fact,and stopped trying to kid the Cavalier Buying Public about this .

Bet

Karlin
25th August 2010, 12:07 PM
If breed club members want their pleas about puppy farms not to sound just like a hollow spin exercise to deflect attention from the serious health issues in the breed, then they absolutely cannot have one set of standards for welfare, cruelty, neglect, abuse and the evils of puppy farming for everyone else, then another standard when it applies to 'their own'. To re-elevate someone who was convicted in a public court of 83 -- 83!!! -- counts of cruelty -- on the basis that well, she really does like dogs and it was all a misunderstanding and the person was just overwhelmed... just beggars belief.

This was not someone caring for say, rescue dogs who might accidently end up suddenly inundated with too many to manage, but someone *breeding and selling these dogs* over time. One does not end up with 83 dogs, much less 83 neglected dogs, simply because a family member is ill and you forget to look after them. It takes a lot of time to accumulate that number. Few show breeders would ever have such numbers, and you'd need a large hygienic kennel to keep so many. Not stacks of filthy plastic dog crates. This was large scale neglect which is why 83 separate counts were brought against this woman and why 83 counts were upheld. By contrast the notorious Michael Vick faced nothing like as many counts of cruelty.

It is truly an indictment of the legal system though if judges only think this level of neglect warrants just banning someone from owning a dog for two years and a tiny fine. Consider what the taxpayer had to pay to cover the costs of rescuing 83 dogs. I know what the cost is for ONE dog -- on a very conservative estimate I would guess the ultimate cost was close to if not more likely well over 10,000. :shock:

Curious that it was our old friend, the Kennel Club's Caroline Kisco, who also defended her judging at Crufts only two weeks before her conviction on the basis that she hadn't yet been proven guilty. Had the person been a teacher or carer charged on 83 counts of cruelty, they would have at least been suspended from duty til after the outcome. Astonishing that the Kennel Club defended having such a person judging when they knew the trial involved 83 counts of cruelty to dogs!! But how much has that whole 'protect our own and blame the outsiders' system changed if this woman is back being rolled out as a judge and given prominent recognition at the Blenheim show? What does that say about any commitment to the dogs as opposed to the people in the show world who are not just quietly supported but publicly re-elevated despite, let me say it again, conviction on 83 separate counts of cruelty to the very breeds they judge. Surely the breed club and decent breeders must draw a line somewhere -- and the world can only judge it immoral not to draw it at a point that stops such a person from ever judging the breed she was convicted of *abusing*!!

I am glad that Blenheim clearly provided a wonderful opportunity to cherish and celebrate this breed -- but it has also provided yet another appalling own goal for the club, reminding that the KC and breed clubs clearly do not even have their house in order and lack any credibility to lecture about puppy farmers when they give not just safe harbour to such people but stick them back up in the show ring. It is really beyond shocking.

Bet
25th August 2010, 06:02 PM
If breed club members want their pleas about puppy farms not to sound just like a hollow spin exercise to deflect attention from the serious health issues in the breed, then they absolutely cannot have one set of standards for welfare, cruelty, neglect, abuse and the evils of puppy farming for everyone else, then another standard when it applies to 'their own'. To re-elevate someone who was convicted in a public court of 83 -- 83!!! -- counts of cruelty -- on the basis that well, she really does like dogs and it was all a misunderstanding and the person was just overwhelmed... just beggars belief.

This was not someone caring for say, rescue dogs who might accidently end up suddenly inundated with too many to manage, but someone *breeding and selling these dogs* over time. One does not end up with 83 dogs, much less 83 neglected dogs, simply because a family member is ill and you forget to look after them. It takes a lot of time to accumulate that number. Few show breeders would ever have such numbers, and you'd need a large hygienic kennel to keep so many. Not stacks of filthy plastic dog crates. This was large scale neglect which is why 83 separate counts were brought against this woman and why 83 counts were upheld. By contrast the notorious Michael Vick faced nothing like as many counts of cruelty.

It is truly an indictment of the legal system though if judges only think this level of neglect warrants just banning someone from owning a dog for two years and a tiny fine. Consider what the taxpayer had to pay to cover the costs of rescuing 83 dogs. I know what the cost is for ONE dog -- on a very conservative estimate I would guess the ultimate cost was close to if not more likely well over 10,000. :shock:

Curious that it was our old friend, the Kennel Club's Caroline Kisco, who also defended her judging at Crufts only two weeks before her conviction on the basis that she hadn't yet been proven guilty. Had the person been a teacher or carer charged on 83 counts of cruelty, they would have at least been suspended from duty til after the outcome. Astonishing that the Kennel Club defended having such a person judging when they knew the trial involved 83 counts of cruelty to dogs!! But how much has that whole 'protect our own and blame the outsiders' system changed if this woman is back being rolled out as a judge and given prominent recognition at the Blenheim show? What does that say about any commitment to the dogs as opposed to the people in the show world who are not just quietly supported but publicly re-elevated despite, let me say it again, conviction on 83 separate counts of cruelty to the very breeds they judge. Surely the breed club and decent breeders must draw a line somewhere -- and the world can only judge it immoral not to draw it at a point that stops such a person from ever judging the breed she was convicted of *abusing*!!

I am glad that Blenheim clearly provided a wonderful opportunity to cherish and celebrate this breed -- but it has also provided yet another appalling own goal for the club, reminding that the KC and breed clubs clearly do not even have their house in order and lack any credibility to lecture about puppy farmers when they give not just safe harbour to such people but stick them back up in the show ring. It is really beyond shocking.


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

As a result of the Cavalier Blenheim Palace Show, never again will some in the Cavalier World be able to blame the Puppy Farmers for all the that is wrong in the Cavalier Breed with their Health Problems.

Never again will some Cavalier Breeders be able to use the Excuse ,OH, I won't be an Accredited Breeder because of the Bad Name the Puppy Farmers ,who are Accredited Breeders give to this Scheme ,when a Top Cavalier Breeder and Judge has been charged with Cruelty in a Public Court to the Animals in her Possession.

Has it just been the case that for many years Lip Service has been paid to the Public about the SM and MVD Problems in our Cavalier Breed,but because of the Blenheim Palace Show at the Week-End ,the Cavalier buying Public and Cavalier Owners have now been made so aware of the Huge Cavalier Problems of SM and MVD affecting Cavaliers because of the Publicity that was given at Blenheim Palace to the Health Problems in Cavaliers.

SO, let's give a Big Thank You to the Orginizers of the Blenheim Palace Show,for making it possible that all Cavalier Lovers are now so aware of the Health Problems facing our Lovely Cavalier Breed,and what is needing to be being done to give the Cavaliers the chance of a Future

It sure was a great PR Exercise to be able to get this Information across about the Serious Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed to all who Love Cavaliers.

Bet

Karlin
25th August 2010, 06:55 PM
Bet, I think the show was a great pleasure for the majority of people attending, both breeders and pet owners, who got a chance to participate in some enjoyable activities in a very beautiful place. Thanks to some, there was also a nice range of information on research initiatives and health issues that all who care about cavaliers should be working together on, and a health fundrasier. :thmbsup: All those things are positives.

I do think however that post the event, and thanks to one person's unwitting photograph, a deep ethical chasm within the clubs and KC has again been highlighted. This woman is a moral liability to the club that far from trying to hide away, it is ready to flaunt as a prize member. The club has reinstated her as a member and she is back in a career of judging a breed she is convicted of having abused. You just could not make this stuff up!

If anyone gets one more reply from anyone in the Cavalier Club or KC that those who campaign for health need to focus on puppy farmers, just say two words back: this judge's name. If the puppy farming issue is about dogs kept in poor health in dirt, excrement and squalor -- this is what this person was convicted of, on exactly such evidence cited in the trial, 83 times in sequence.


Chairman Ms Greta Foules told the two women: "From the evidence seen on the video shown to the court about the condition of the house it is clear that the unnecessary suffering has occurred over a prolonged period of time."

...

Mr Kevin Campbell, prosecuting for the RSPCA, told the court that conditions at the sisters' home were "atrocious".

He said floors of the house were covered in up to six inches of "compacted dog excrement" and that many of the animals were caged in home-made kennels.

Vet reports later revealed that many of the animals, including, Jack Russells, King Charles spaniels and long-haired daschunds, were suffering from various eye, mouth and ear problems. Many of the dogs had to have their rotten teeth removed by vets.

...

After the hearing RSPCA inspector Garry Palmer said: "These dogs were kept in sickening conditions.

"These women were highly respected Crufts judges and the way they treated these animals left me and fellow officers disgusted and upset.

"The sisters were meant to set an example of how to treat dogs but they did not do that and let an appalling situation escalate."

ppotterfield
25th August 2010, 09:58 PM
Loved reading that Kate!!! You made it sound so real for me all the over here! Great pictures and loved reading the highlights of your trip. The blind boy who enjoyed the silk coats.....so sweet.


I echo Cathy T.'s thoughts. What a nice event with a mixture of show, performance and pet people and information about the breed, including health issues. It is good for people with diverse perspectives to mingle, get to know each other and celebrate what they have in common. It may go a long way to finding solutions. I would love to have been there!

Margaret C
25th August 2010, 10:23 PM
The Kennel Club & breeders tend to blame all health & temperament problems on puppy farms & BYB, but having taken a quick glance at the latest Breed Record Supplement, I do wonder if KC breeders really do all they should.

The commercial breeders are breeding to make money, no pretence of caring. The health of the dogs do not come into the picture, they are a commercial package that will be bred until they are no longer profitable and then disposed of?

Breed Club committee members say they care about the breed's future, but are shown in the BRS to be using young dogs on young bitches despite the fact they know the SM & MVD health protocols both say the cavaliers should be over 2.5 years.......

15 months is not 2.5 years

18 months is not 2.5 years

Even 24 months is not 2.5 years.

In a year or so these breeders will be complaining that the guidelines do not work.

The number of Club members breeding their bitch two seasons on the trot really surprised me. At one time decent breeders just did not use their bitches in such a way. Surely that is one of the things that we say only puppy farmers and BYB do?

What would be the reason for mating bitches just out of puppyhood or breeding back to back?
The only reason I can see is financial, exactly the same reason that the puppy farmers do these things.

As for temperament..... There have always been cavaliers that were avoided in the ring because they would suddenly lunge at other dogs. Some lines have become known for having a nasty temperament. From what I am hearing this week it would seem the problem is still with us.

Karlin
25th August 2010, 11:18 PM
Well, I have a 7 year old ex-puppy farm bitch sleeping up behind me on the couch right now who is heart clear and has the most wonderful temperament... :) and another poorly bred 5 year old just came into rescue also heart clear and described by the vet as having the most wonderful temperament... Surely people have to make some pretty poor choices in their breeding stock (perhaps caring more about appearance?) to end up with cavaliers of bad temperament! The one consistent thing in the many cavaliers I have taken into rescue over the years, from every type of breeding background, even when they have been misused, abused, and neglected, is their gentleness and sweetness. I think that is the one quality that I would think most worth celebrating in the breed. They are quite extraordinary in that way; so resilient in their friendliness and cheerfulness. :)

If all breeders focused on health along with the other great qualities in the breed, think what an improvement there would be. No one should ever opt for a puppy farm or backyard bred dog... because the dice are more heavily loaded toward indifferent genetics and poorer health, and more to the point, puppy farms and are horrible places of despair for the breeding animals kept there. No caring person should ever bolster those places by paying for puppies from such a background. But breeding in disregard of protocols and testing (in a haphazard way no breeder would apply to choosing the desired cosmetic elements of sire and dam!) is no better than puppy farm breeding.

Bet
26th August 2010, 11:12 AM
The Kennel Club & breeders tend to blame all health & temperament problems on puppy farms & BYB, but having taken a quick glance at the latest Breed Record Supplement, I do wonder if KC breeders really do all they should.

The commercial breeders are breeding to make money, no pretence of caring. The health of the dogs do not come into the picture, they are a commercial package that will be bred until they are no longer profitable and then disposed of?

Breed Club committee members say they care about the breed's future, but are shown in the BRS to be using young dogs on young bitches despite the fact they know the SM & MVD health protocols both say the cavaliers should be over 2.5 years.......

15 months is not 2.5 years

18 months is not 2.5 years

Even 24 months is not 2.5 years.

In a year or so these breeders will be complaining that the guidelines do not work.

The number of Club members breeding their bitch two seasons on the trot really surprised me. At one time decent breeders just did not use their bitches in such a way. Surely that is one of the things that we say only puppy farmers and BYB do?

What would be the reason for mating bitches just out of puppyhood or breeding back to back?
The only reason I can see is financial, exactly the same reason that the puppy farmers do these things.

As for temperament..... There have always been cavaliers that were avoided in the ring because they would suddenly lunge at other dogs. Some lines have become known for having a nasty temperament. From what I am hearing this week it would seem the problem is still with us.

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I have just read Margaret's Post which included a Mention of the Temperment of some Cavaliers,surely this is against the Standard of the Cavalier Breed

The Standard says,

THAT Cavaliers should be Gay ,Friendly and NON- AGGRESSIVE

This is what has made Cavaliers Perfect for the Cavalier Pet Buying Public, from the Small Children through to the Grannies in the families,that Cavaliers could always be depended upon never to have a Doubtful Temperment.

If some Lines now have Cavaliers who are displaying Temperment Problems, is this another Nail in the Coffin for Cavaliers.

Also could I mention ,when some Cavalier Breeders are Breeding from Under -Age Cavaliers, and their Health Status will not be known about since the CKCS CLUB's Recommended Breeding Guidelines are to wait till the Cavalier 2.5 years of and then Health Tested for SM and MVD ,also the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5 years of age, then are those Cavalier Breeders any different from or better than the Puppy Farmers and BYB's that are so often Condemed

I believe that some of those Cavalier Breeders are CKCS Club Members.

I am not saying that the Temperment Problem came to light at the Cavalier Blenheim Palace Show, but if did, what a way to have been Celebrating our Cavalier Breed.

Bet

Bet
27th August 2010, 09:59 AM
BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I have just read Margaret's Post which included a Mention of the Temperment of some Cavaliers,surely this is against the Standard of the Cavalier Breed

The Standard says,

THAT Cavaliers should be Gay ,Friendly and NON- AGGRESSIVE

This is what has made Cavaliers Perfect for the Cavalier Pet Buying Public, from the Small Children through to the Grannies in the families,that Cavaliers could always be depended upon never to have a Doubtful Temperment.

If some Lines now have Cavaliers who are displaying Temperment Problems, is this another Nail in the Coffin for Cavaliers.

Also could I mention ,when some Cavalier Breeders are Breeding from Under -Age Cavaliers, and their Health Status will not be known about since the CKCS CLUB's Recommended Breeding Guidelines are to wait till the Cavalier 2.5 years of and then Health Tested for SM and MVD ,also the Health Status of the Grand-Parents at 5 years of age, then are those Cavalier Breeders any different from or better than the Puppy Farmers and BYB's that are so often Condemed

I believe that some of those Cavalier Breeders are CKCS Club Members.

I am not saying that the Temperment Problem came to light at the Cavalier Blenheim Palace Show, but if did, what a way to have been Celebrating our Cavalier Breed.

Bet


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

Since I was sent a Private E-Mail yesterday from an Orginiser of the Blenheim Palace Show ,I think I can mention it on this Thread.

I was Accused of mentioning about the Cavalier Heads being Smaller than they were years ago and how Wrong I am in saying this.I wonder why I am wrong in saying this, is this Type of Cavalier Head now where the Money is to be being made for a number of Cavalier Breeders.!!!

Hopefully some Folk who saw the Photos of the Cavaliers of Days Gone By will have seen the Difference in the Cavaliers' Heads, but I do hope this subject will be Discussed at the Two Forth-Coming Cavalier Seminers.

What the problem about SM in our Cavalier Breed is, which Cavaliers have the SM Gene/Genes , I will link this also to the Cavaliers' MVD Problem

At the moment ,all that can done to help those Two Health Problems in Cavaliers ,is for Cavalier Breeders ,not just the few who are caring enough about those Problems in our Cavalier Breed,to take notice of the Recommendations of the CKCS CLUB'S Breeding Guidelines to try and stop the early Onset of both those Two Diseases.

The Finding of the SM and MVD Genes is the only way the Cavalier Breed can be Given a Future,the Cavalier Breeders can play their part by Heeding the Recommended Breed Guidelines, the Cavalier Buying Public by asking the necessary Questions from Cavalier Breeders, are they Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock and giving the Prospective Cavalier Buyer a Certificate to Prove that this is being done, and finding out from the Cavalier Breeder if the Recommended Breeding Guidelines are being followed.

The Bottom Line is though for the Cavaliers to Survive will come from the Researchers, it is the Researchers who will get the Answers ,and tell the Cavalier Breeders the Cavaliers who have those Genes for SM and MVD and the Cavaliers who are the Carriers.

The Breeding of Cavaliers is no Longer a Cottage Industry. I maybe wrong with this Figure, but I believe a Cavalier can fetch upto 2,000,and Stud Fees at least 6,00

I would think that this could be called a Commercial Business .

Is this the Attraction of the Show Scene now-a-days.

Bet

Bet
28th August 2010, 02:28 PM
BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

Since I was sent a Private E-Mail yesterday from an Orginiser of the Blenheim Palace Show ,I think I can mention it on this Thread.

I was Accused of mentioning about the Cavalier Heads being Smaller than they were years ago and how Wrong I am in saying this.I wonder why I am wrong in saying this, is this Type of Cavalier Head now where the Money is to be being made for a number of Cavalier Breeders.!!!

Hopefully some Folk who saw the Photos of the Cavaliers of Days Gone By will have seen the Difference in the Cavaliers' Heads, but I do hope this subject will be Discussed at the Two Forth-Coming Cavalier Seminers.

What the problem about SM in our Cavalier Breed is, which Cavaliers have the SM Gene/Genes , I will link this also to the Cavaliers' MVD Problem

At the moment ,all that can done to help those Two Health Problems in Cavaliers ,is for Cavalier Breeders ,not just the few who are caring enough about those Problems in our Cavalier Breed,to take notice of the Recommendations of the CKCS CLUB'S Breeding Guidelines to try and stop the early Onset of both those Two Diseases.

The Finding of the SM and MVD Genes is the only way the Cavalier Breed can be Given a Future,the Cavalier Breeders can play their part by Heeding the Recommended Breed Guidelines, the Cavalier Buying Public by asking the necessary Questions from Cavalier Breeders, are they Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock and giving the Prospective Cavalier Buyer a Certificate to Prove that this is being done, and finding out from the Cavalier Breeder if the Recommended Breeding Guidelines are being followed.

The Bottom Line is though for the Cavaliers to Survive will come from the Researchers, it is the Researchers who will get the Answers ,and tell the Cavalier Breeders the Cavaliers who have those Genes for SM and MVD and the Cavaliers who are the Carriers.

The Breeding of Cavaliers is no Longer a Cottage Industry. I maybe wrong with this Figure, but I believe a Cavalier can fetch upto 2,000,and Stud Fees at least 6,00

I would think that this could be called a Commercial Business .

Is this the Attraction of the Show Scene now-a-days.

Bet

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I have just read the OUR DOGS BLENHEIM PALACE Cavalier Special Supplement

What I noticed first of all was the mention of CM/SM in Cavaliers ,this is Charactized by a Mismatch in Size between the Brain too Big and the Skull too Small.

At this moment the Gene/Genes for this Condition in Cavaliers has yet to be found,this is where the Money from RUPERT's FUND is of such a Benefit to the SM Researchers.

Hopefully at the Two Forth -Coming Cavalier Seminars ,more Information will be available about this Research.

I know that some Cavalier Breeders who are still in Denial about the SM and MVD Problems Afflicting our Cavaliers being Big Health Problems for Cavaliers,still are Insisting that, OK ,Health Tests can be being done on Cavaliers To-Day and the Cavalier has no Sign of those Diseases, but to- morrow the Problem can be there ,so can Cancer in
Humans, so their Excuse is why bother Health Tests.

Until many Cavalier Breeders understand , not all Cavalier Breeders , that the hope at the Moment for the Breed ,is to to delay the Early On-Set of both SM and MVD ,then the Cavaliers just do not have a Future.

I do hope that many of the Cavalier Breeders who made an Appearance at the Blenheim Palace Show, will also be supporting the Two Seminars, if Not I am sure the Question will be being asked ,Why Not.

Also once the Formal BVA/KC Schemes for MVD and CM/SM are introduced shortly ,which will Formalize the Current CKCS CLUB'S Administered Heart Scheme and Standarize the Diverse MRI Scanning Procedures which have been in use

Formal Testing Procedures could then be Applied to the Kennel Club's Accredited Breeders Scheme.

It is to be hoped that some Cavalier Breeders won't use the Excuse that they have used so often in the Past , that they won't be supporting the ABS when Cavalier Puppy Farmers are Members of the Scheme.

That Excuse Won't Wash Any-more after what has just Happened at the Blenheim Palace Show last Week-End with the presence of a Cavalier Breeder and Judge who was Convicted of 83 cases of Dogs in her care.

Bet

Bet
29th August 2010, 09:57 AM
BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I have just read the OUR DOGS BLENHEIM PALACE Cavalier Special Supplement

What I noticed first of all was the mention of CM/SM in Cavaliers ,this is Charactized by a Mismatch in Size between the Brain too Big and the Skull too Small.

At this moment the Gene/Genes for this Condition in Cavaliers has yet to be found,this is where the Money from RUPERT's FUND is of such a Benefit to the SM Researchers.

Hopefully at the Two Forth -Coming Cavalier Seminars ,more Information will be available about this Research.

I know that some Cavalier Breeders who are still in Denial about the SM and MVD Problems Afflicting our Cavaliers being Big Health Problems for Cavaliers,still are Insisting that, OK ,Health Tests can be being done on Cavaliers To-Day and the Cavalier has no Sign of those Diseases, but to- morrow the Problem can be there ,so can Cancer in
Humans, so their Excuse is why bother Health Tests.

Until many Cavalier Breeders understand , not all Cavalier Breeders , that the hope at the Moment for the Breed ,is to to delay the Early On-Set of both SM and MVD ,then the Cavaliers just do not have a Future.

I do hope that many of the Cavalier Breeders who made an Appearance at the Blenheim Palace Show, will also be supporting the Two Seminars, if Not I am sure the Question will be being asked ,Why Not.

Also once the Formal BVA/KC Schemes for MVD and CM/SM are introduced shortly ,which will Formalize the Current CKCS CLUB'S Administered Heart Scheme and Standarize the Diverse MRI Scanning Procedures which have been in use

Formal Testing Procedures could then be Applied to the Kennel Club's Accredited Breeders Scheme.

It is to be hoped that some Cavalier Breeders won't use the Excuse that they have used so often in the Past , that they won't be supporting the ABS when Cavalier Puppy Farmers are Members of the Scheme.

That Excuse Won't Wash Any-more after what has just Happened at the Blenheim Palace Show last Week-End with the presence of a Cavalier Breeder and Judge who was Convicted of 83 cases of Dogs in her care.

Bet

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

Could I could I go back to the OUR DOGS Cavalier Supplement.

OH DEARIE ME,

I for sure have Ruffled a Few Cavalier Breeders' Feathers for Daring to say that so many of the Cavaliers' Heads of to-day are Smaller than they in the 50's -60's -and even the 70's ,if any-body has the Cavalier Supplement, just look at the Cavaliers' on the back of it, there are Photos of the VAIRIRE and Pargeter Cavaliers ,they have a Larger type of Head than what is seen to -day

Now I don't know and NO Cavalier Breeder will know as to whether the Cavalier Heads being Smaller now can be involved with the Cavaliers' SM Problem, all that is known ,is that there is a Mix Match between the Cavalier Brains being Larger and their Skulls being Smaller.

Hope-fully all this will be being discussed at the 2 Forth-Coming Seminars.

Could I include this Comment with this Post,on another Cavalier Forum there is mention about

Blenheim Palace Poppet , ,she was born I think in 1926 and all her Ancestors were either King Charles Spaniels or Toy Spaniels

Kobba Of Korunda was also mentioned he was born in 1928 and has the same type of Ancestors in his Background.

Bet

Bet
29th August 2010, 10:28 AM
BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

Could I could I go back to the OUR DOGS Cavalier Supplement.

OH DEARIE ME,

I for sure have Ruffled a Few Cavalier Breeders' Feathers for Daring to say that so many of the Cavaliers' Heads of to-day are Smaller than they in the 50's -60's -and even the 70's ,if any-body has the Cavalier Supplement, just look at the Cavaliers' on the back of it, there are Photos of the VAIRIRE and Pargeter Cavaliers ,they have a Larger type of Head than what is seen to -day

Now I don't know and NO Cavalier Breeder will know as to whether the Cavalier Heads being Smaller now can be involved with the Cavaliers' SM Problem, all that is known ,is that there is a Mix Match between the Cavalier Brains being Larger and their Skulls being Smaller.

Hope-fully all this will be being discussed at the 2 Forth-Coming Seminars.

Could I include this Comment with this Post,on another Cavalier Forum there is mention about

Blenheim Palace Poppet , ,she was born I think in 1926 and all her Ancestors were either King Charles Spaniels or Toy Spaniels

Kobba Of Korunda was also mentioned he was born in 1928 and has the same type of Ancestors in his Background.

Bet

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

SILLY ,SILLY ME!!!

What I was trying to explain by Cavaliers' Heads being Smaller,was that those 2 Dogs Mentioned on the Other Cavalier Forum saying that Heads were no different
than Cavaliers' Heads to-day , this is what I am mentioning , that many of to-days' Cavaliers' Heads are like the Head of Kobba Of Korunda ,but it's what happened in the Intervening Years between the 1930's and To-days' Heads , how
they were altered

If I could also be allowed to mention ,I was accused on the other Forum of not being at the Blenheim Palace Show and making comments about the Cavalier Gallery.

All I can say about this, a Number of Years ago Mr G JUPP, the Husband of the Previous CKCS Chairman and my -self
were involved in exactly the same thing as was seen at Blenheim Palace, there were Photos ,and the 5 Generation Pedigrees that I had worked out , even to the Long Lived Ages that I had found out about those Cavaliers.

This was for a Cavalier Championship Show , maybe some on this List will remember it.

In fact I am looking at a Photo of it which was Displayed Round the Hall at the Show.

Bet.

RodRussell
29th August 2010, 03:22 PM
... I for sure have Ruffled a Few Cavalier Breeders' Feathers for Daring to say that so many of the Cavaliers' Heads of to-day are Smaller than they in the 50's -60's -and even the 70's ...

Bet, you haven't ruffled my feathers, because I have none, but I don't agree with you about today's heads being smaller than those earlier decades. Although I cannot speak with eyes-on knowledge about the 1950s, I can with the 1960s and since. We've had Cavaliers from all of those decades, and because of our love for the breed, we've been to many CKCS shows in the US -- Norhteast, Midwest, and Southeast -- and I have not seen what you are asserting about any downsizing of head size over those years.

One oddity I just realized is a statue of two Cavaliers which we have had in our family for many years. It is a circa 1930 statue -- actually two identical bookend statues -- and it clearly shows that one of the two dogs is scratching its ear. I thought it odd that a sculptor would choose that pose to memorialize the breed. But perhaps an artist unfamiliar with the breed would try to capture the dog doing what it does a lot of.

Bet
29th August 2010, 06:57 PM
Bet, you haven't ruffled my feathers, because I have none, but I don't agree with you about today's heads being smaller than those earlier decades. Although I cannot speak with eyes-on knowledge about the 1950s, I can with the 1960s and since. We've had Cavaliers from all of those decades, and because of our love for the breed, we've been to many CKCS shows in the US -- Norhteast, Midwest, and Southeast -- and I have not seen what you are asserting about any downsizing of head size over those years.

One oddity I just realized is a statue of two Cavaliers which we have had in our family for many years. It is a circa 1930 statue -- actually two identical bookend statues -- and it clearly shows that one of the two dogs is scratching its ear. I thought it odd that a sculptor would choose that pose to memorialize the breed. But perhaps an artist unfamiliar with the breed would try to capture the dog doing what it does a lot of.

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

ROD,

I just cannot comment on the Cavaliers in America, but here in Britain, and it just not me saying this , others are mentioning this as well, that the Heads of Cavaliers are Smaller than they were years ago.

Hopefully this will all be being discussed at the 2 Cavalier Seminars which will be taking place Shortly.

As I said in a Previous Post, there seems to be Some Cavalier Breeders who do not want to own up to this fact, is this really what all this is about,,because there is I believe a Lot of Money to be being made ,especially from Over -Seas ,from the Type of Head many Cavaliers have now-a-days.

Why was it said in the OUR DOGS SUPPLEMENT for the Blenheim Palace Cavalier Show, that there is a Mix Match in the Cavaliers, their Brains are too Large and their Heads too Small.

It's no use arguing about this, some Cavalier Breeders are saying that yes the Cavaliers' Heads to-day are like what they were when the Breed orginated, ,so the Questioned must be asked , if the Cavaliers have a Mix Match Type of Skull to-day , did those Early Cavaliers also have a Mix Match Type of Skull ,so has SM always been in the Cavalier Breed.

This Mix Match in the Size of the Cavaliers' Brain being too Big and their Skull too Small ,blocks up the Opening from the Skull into the Spinal Cord and Alters the Flow of Cerebrospinal Fluid .

As a Result Fluid -Filled Cavaties develope within the Spinal Cord called a Syrinx ,with the Condition being called SYRINGOMYELIA.

Hopefully because of the Health Information that was given out at the Blenheim Palace Show, many, many Cavalier Owners will have been aware about this Insidious Disease SM ,and will now Realize that if the Cavalier Breeders who do not MRI Scan their Cavalier Breeding Stock, the Cavaliers just will not have a Future.

I do think that this was the Best PR Result to have come from the Blenheim Palace Show,that it has been brought home to Cavalier Owners the Serious Plight the Cavalier Breed is in because of the MVD and SM Health Problems Afflicting Cavaliers.


Instead of all this Bickering from Some Cavalier Breeders.

They have TWO CHOICES,

THEY CAN EITHER BE PART OF THE CAVALIERS'S HEALTH PROBLEM or PART OF THE SOLUTION to Giving Our Cavaliers the Chance of HEALTHIER ,LONGER LIVES.!!

Bet

Holly
29th August 2010, 09:17 PM
Hmmm, I can't imagine any Cavalier breeder breeding for smaller heads. A bigger, plusher head is more sought after than a small head.

Bet
30th August 2010, 10:35 AM
Hmmm, I can't imagine any Cavalier breeder breeding for smaller heads. A bigger, plusher head is more sought after than a small head.


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

All I know is what I am Quoting from the Internet about the Problem written by SM Cavalier Researchers .

The Miniaturisation Process in Cavaliers went Awry,and unlike other Toy Breeds the BRAIN did not Decrease in Size in Proportion to the SKULL

The Cavalier appears to have a Brain more appropriate for a Bigger Dog.

So my understanding about this information is that, there has been MINIATURISATION happening in the Breeding of Cavaliers.

That's all I know about this, and Miniaturisation means making Smaller.

I have not got a Clue as to whether this is involved with the Cavalier Breed's SM Problem.

O.K. The Cavaliers' Heads were Smaller maybe in the in the 1930's, but they were not called Cavaliers in those Days,not until 1945 did the Kennel Club Register them separately from the King Charles Spaniels, in a Comment made by Mrs Amice Pitt , the Founder of the Cavalier Breed, she said she wished that this had taken place a few
years later.. I would have been better for the Cavalier Breed , I just don't know what she meant by this Statement.

Now back to the Cavaliers' Heads it has been mentioned in a Cavalier Book,that a Cavalier DOG's Head should be slightly Broader , with a More MASCULINE TONE than the Head of a Cavalier Bitch ,which will be Slightly Smaller ,more Feminine and PRETTY .

Can any-one Honestly say that there is a Difference in many of to-day's Cavaliers betweem the Cavalier Dogs and Cavalier Bitches.

They have this Pretty Look,Dogs and Bitches.

For sure in days gone by the Cavalier Dogs did have a Masculine Look just look at the Photos of Ch. DAYWELL ROGER born 7-10-1945,it must have been some Cavalier Breeders who wanted the Cavalier Dogs to have this Pretty Look,did they think they would sell better to the Cavalier Pet Buying Public.

I cannot understand all the Huffing and Puffing from some Cavalier Breeders when I dare mention about the
Cavaliers' Heads being Smaller than they were years ago, it's not even as if I am connecting the Smaller Heads to the Cavaliers' SM Problem, it's the SM Researchers who will in the fullness of time discover if there is a Link with the Cavaliers' Heads being Smaller and their SM Problem.

Bet

RodRussell
30th August 2010, 12:22 PM
All I know is what I am Quoting from the Internet about the Problem written by SM Cavalier Researchers .

The Miniaturisation Process in Cavaliers went Awry,and unlike other Toy Breeds the BRAIN did not Decrease in Size in Proportion to the SKULL

The Cavalier appears to have a Brain more appropriate for a Bigger Dog.

So my understanding about this information is that, there has been MINIATURISATION happening in the Breeding of Cavaliers.

That's all I know about this, and Miniaturisation means making Smaller. ...

I've read the same information you have, Bet, and I don't interpret it even close to the way you have. I suggest that you parse it very carefully. Definitely, Dr. Rusbridge did not suggest that Cavalier breeders have been trying to breed smaller heads. The theory, as I understand it from what she wrote, is that in the course of evolving the Cavalier, the development of the skull and the brain have not been coordinated, and the brain has kept growing after the skull has stopped. This has nothing to do with whether the size of the Cavalier head is smaller now than in past decades.

Bet
30th August 2010, 02:17 PM
I've read the same information you have, Bet, and I don't interpret it even close to the way you have. I suggest that you parse it very carefully. Definitely, Dr. Rusbridge did not suggest that Cavalier breeders have been trying to breed smaller heads. The theory, as I understand it from what she wrote, is that in the course of evolving the Cavalier, the development of the skull and the brain have not been coordinated, and the brain has kept growing after the skull has stopped. This has nothing to do with whether the size of the Cavalier head is smaller now than in past decades.

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW.


ROD,

I have Posted Exactly what is written ,word for word ,in the Veterinary Neurologist Web Site ,Q and A by Dr Rusbridge.

How -some- ever ,I expect all this will be being discussed at the Forth- Coming Cavalier Seminars.

The Miniaturisation of Cavaliers is certainly mentioned in this Section.

The Word Miniaturisation to me certainly means becoming Smaller.

What is your defination of Miniaturisation.

Bet

RodRussell
30th August 2010, 07:48 PM
ROD,

I have Posted Exactly what is written ,word for word ,in the Veterinary Neurologist Web Site ,Q and A by Dr Rusbridge.

How -some- ever ,I expect all this will be being discussed at the Forth- Coming Cavalier Seminars.

The Miniaturisation of Cavaliers is certainly mentioned in this Section.

The Word Miniaturisation to me certainly means becoming Smaller.

What is your defination of Miniaturisation.

Bet, she is not referring to the miniaturizing of heads!

Kate H
30th August 2010, 08:04 PM
Please, if we're going to have a discussion on head size, could we start a new thread with an appropriate heading? If someone hasn't caught up with the Blenheim Weekend yet, they're going to be a bit puzzled to find themselves in the middle of posts on head size! I'm going to start one with a brief comment, if that's OK?

Thanks,

Kate, Oliver and Aled

RodRussell
30th August 2010, 10:43 PM
Please, if we're going to have a discussion on head size, could we start a new thread with an appropriate heading? If someone hasn't caught up with the Blenheim Weekend yet, they're going to be a bit puzzled to find themselves in the middle of posts on head size! I'm going to start one with a brief comment, if that's OK?

Yes, please!

Bet
31st August 2010, 11:27 AM
Bet, she is not referring to the miniaturizing of heads!


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

ROD,

This my last mention about the BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW ,only to say ,how pleased I was to see such Emphasis put on the Health Problems in our Cavaliers at the Show

Cavalier owners will now have it brought home to them about the Perilous State the Cavalier Breed is in because of SM and MVD and only when buying a Cavalier ,buy from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests their Cavalier Breeding Stock and follows the Breeding Guidelines as Recommended by the CKCS CLUB

Finally though ROD, maybe you can tell me why some Cavalier Breeders are so Up in Arms when ever I mention about the Cavaliers' Heads being Smaller than they were years ago,is it a Slur against them, I just can't Fathom this out why it is causing so much Ill-Feeling , what is wrong with say this, ...

Bet

Bet
2nd September 2010, 09:12 AM
BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

ROD,

This my last mention about the BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW ,only to say ,how pleased I was to see such Emphasis put on the Health Problems in our Cavaliers at the Show

Cavalier owners will now have it brought home to them about the Perilous State the Cavalier Breed is in because of SM and MVD and only when buying a Cavalier ,buy from a Cavalier Breeder who Health Tests their Cavalier Breeding Stock and follows the Breeding Guidelines as Recommended by the CKCS CLUB

Finally though ROD, maybe you can tell me why some Cavalier Breeders are so Up in Arms when ever I mention about the Cavaliers' Heads being Smaller than they were years ago,is it a Slur against them, I just can't Fathom this out why it is causing so much Ill-Feeling , what is wrong with say this, ...

Bet


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I was'nt going to mention the Blenheim Palace Show any-more but I had Posted on another Cavalier Forum saying how the Orginizers were to be Praised for putting such an Emphasis on the TWO Health Problems Afflicting the Cavaliers , SM and MVD, and making the Cavalier Pet Owning Public aware about them.

There was a Reply to my Post from a Cavalier Breeder here in Britain ,mentioning about the Blenheim Palace Show ,but I was really disappointed to read that she made no mention of the Emphasis that had been put on the Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed.

Bet

Bet
2nd September 2010, 02:31 PM
BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

I was'nt going to mention the Blenheim Palace Show any-more but I had Posted on another Cavalier Forum saying how the Orginizers were to be Praised for putting such an Emphasis on the TWO Health Problems Afflicting the Cavaliers , SM and MVD, and making the Cavalier Pet Owning Public aware about them.

There was a Reply to my Post from a Cavalier Breeder here in Britain ,mentioning about the Blenheim Palace Show ,but I was really disappointed to read that she made no mention of the Emphasis that had been put on the Health Problems in the Cavalier Breed.

Bet

BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

If I could make a further Comment about the BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW, I have just received my Copy of the Book about Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, and noticed in the Acknowledgements and Grateful Thanks was the name of Caroline Gatheral.

Since this Book was on sale at the Blenheim Palace Show ,I wonder if there was a more direct Connection than just between 2 Old Friends meeting up at the Table as was claimed in another Post in a Cavalier Forum and that the Photo was just accidental.

In the Back-ground of this Photo is a Cavalier Breeder holding up this Book I have just mentioned ,

I don't really think though ,that now Some Cavalier Breeders can use this Excuse any longer that they won't be associated with the Kennel Club's Accredited Breeders' because of the involvement of Puppy Farmers being in it,after knowing about what had been involved with a Cavalier Breeder and Judge.

Could I also mention about the Book , some-times ANN'S SON is Called ANN'S SON and in the same Page called ANNE'S SON, this different Spelling could be mis-leading to those interested in Cavalier Pedigrees.

Bet

RodRussell
2nd September 2010, 03:33 PM
... Finally though ROD, maybe you can tell me why some Cavalier Breeders are so Up in Arms when ever I mention about the Cavaliers' Heads being Smaller than they were years ago,is it a Slur against them, I just can't Fathom this out why it is causing so much Ill-Feeling , what is wrong with say this, ...

It is not a slur; it just flies in the face of the facts. I am not a breeder, and I am "Up in Arms" about your comments regarding head size, too. When you go up against the establishment, Bet, you need credibility, and to say that Cavaliers have smaller heads than they did in years past is not credible. To many breeders, this is a "head breed", and that means, in part, the bigger the better.

Kate H
2nd September 2010, 03:37 PM
I do agree with you about the new book, Bet - as a professional editor, I was really frustrated at the number of typing errors and muddled text in it! It's a shame - the book itself (especially the photos) is very interesting, pity about the lack of editing/proofreading. If it goes into a second printing, I'll offer my services!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

HollyDolly
2nd September 2010, 06:26 PM
To many breeders, this is a "head breed", and that means, in part, the bigger the better.

Sorry totally disagree (the bigger the better) but can I please try and put a stop to the endless discussions on head size. We all know that this beautiful breed has health problems and continuing to lay the blame at the door of the breeders for head size will serve no purpose.
Knowledge, encouragement, working together, support for one another when a dog is diagnosed with MVD or SM or any other health problem is needed not putting people's backs up all the time.

No matter what I would not have changed my life living with Cavaliers for anything.

Nanette
xxxx

Bet
2nd September 2010, 06:34 PM
I do agree with you about the new book, Bet - as a professional editor, I was really frustrated at the number of typing errors and muddled text in it! It's a shame - the book itself (especially the photos) is very interesting, pity about the lack of editing/proofreading. If it goes into a second printing, I'll offer my services!

Kate, Oliver and Aled


BLENHEIM PALACE SHOW

Kate,

Yes , I will say again when you are dealing with Cavalier Pedigrees they have to be so Carefully done, in this Case of ANN'S SON and ANNE'S SON, it can upset Research work,it is so important for Researchers that the Pedigrees are Accurate.

This is what I always felt about ANN'S SON and his Pedigree ,that there could be doubts about it, and when Geneticists went back as far as him they could be up against a Brick Wall.

In the Cavalier Book have a Read about what Amice Pitt says in pages 118-120.

Bet

Kate H
3rd September 2010, 07:46 PM
Some nice photos of the Blenheim weekend on the Cavalier Club website.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

ByFloSin
5th September 2010, 02:19 PM
Some nice photos of the Blenheim weekend on the Cavalier Club website.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Hi Kate

Just thought I would let you know that there are more pictures, including a lovely one of you and Oliver, on ChatterBox at www.cavaliers.co.uk. Enjoy.