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Reptigirl
27th October 2010, 01:32 AM
FINALLY.... we just got the results from the MRI on Flash....

No SM yet! He does have moderate CM...but he has a small kink in the brain stem at the base of his skull. Doc said that was probably going to cause SM in the future..... sent us home on lyrica .... any advise on this kink? Not familier with this? Does this normally happen in cavaliers?

Okay...4 hour drive home.....

lovecavaliers
27th October 2010, 01:40 AM
Glad to hear you finally found out what is going on with Flash. Happy to hear it's not SM, however having CM can be very painful for some dogs. I know first hand with my dog:(. Hopefully it will never progress.
Don't know exactly what your vet means about a "kink", maybe others on here can shed some light on that.
Let me know how the Lyrica helps Flash. I keep hearing such good things about it.
Have a safe ride home. You and Flash deserve a nice relaxing evening:)

Soushiruiuma
27th October 2010, 03:13 AM
Glad to it's not SM, did the neurologist offer other possible diagnoses? Also, out of interest, was there PSOM, or dilated ventricles?

The kink is in the medulla. As far I am aware that is normal in the toy breeds. I don't know if there are different levels of severity for the kink, or it just is. Since the kink isn't unique to cavaliers, I believe it isn't being considered as one the important factors in SM.

If Flash is registered you should consider sending a copy to the research teams in the UK. Most dogs in the US date back to the English stock within a few generations. I don't know how that's done, but I'm sure several board members here do.

Reptigirl
27th October 2010, 06:53 AM
Finally home and settled..... over 400 miles round trip... almost 8 hours of actually driving time....

I'm a little confused with the kink part at the moment. The vet is supposed to be sending me a copy of the MRI and a copy of the medical records. At this moment I'm not exactly sure what she was trying to say about the brain stem and the kink. I'm pretty sure the kink was not in the medulla. My VERY tired mind remembers it being just a little bit into the spinal cord. The spinal cord came off the brain stem just a little bit, dipped down and went right back up. Almost like a "V" shaped. She pointed at some little fuzzy spot in the screen and said it "could" turn into a syrinx down the line but over all it the spinal column was the normal constant grayish color. To be honest I couldn't see the fuzz she was pointing at. She said the ventricles all looked just fine and there was no sign of PSOM.

She seemed concerned with the kink as it would cause a slow down of the CFS even more then with the CM alone. She said the kink was genetic and that I should definitely go ahead and have him neutered as it would be passed down in each generation. I was already preparing for it because of the outward signs he was showing.

They did a spinal tap on him to test for Meningitis.
They also did a blood test on him.
Both of these were good and normal.

Since everything else tested out fine she said she was really surprised to see such severe symptoms from just CM.

If someone can tell me where to send the pedigree and scan to I would love to send it in. Is it possible to email it since I believe she said the MRI was being sent on a CD. 3 of his grand parents were imported from Ireland and the 4th was from the Slovak Republic.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________

To make my day even more "eventful" while we were waiting we decided to try to find his breeder. Not the lady I bought him from but the lady SHE got him from. Funny thing was she only lived about 20 minutes away from this hospital. The phone number we had didn't work but I still had the address on his registration papers. No one was home when we stopped by but we left a very "kind" note on the door saying we got a puppy she produced and we were "So happy with him" and would love to talk to her. We didn't mention his problems so we could get the full story. She called back when she got home....

She has been "Breeding" Cavaliers for 10 years and most of her breeders were getting older. She said too many people were pressing her for "health tested" puppies. She doesn't believe in doing the health testing since she was just a small scale breeder just trying to make a little money on her dogs. She started having so much trouble placing the pups that she decided to pull out of Cavaliers and just breed Schnauzers. She placed the older ones into pet homes. She had one young pair and there pup that she pretty much "gave" them to the lady I got him from. My pup was her 3rd litter from this pair.... the mom was 3 1/2 years old when she had her 3rd litter! :-X The first litter had 3 pups (one died), the second litter had 2 pups and the last litter two pups (mine & a little girl sent to Louisiana).

I have all the info to contact the lady who has my pups parents but I'm not sure if I should even contact her. Since the CM is causing such sever symptoms in my pup I feel like she should know but like the vet said CM is almost a given in any cavalier. Must wait until I am well rested before deciding on that.
Sorry if there are any errors above... too sleepy to proof read this post

Nicki
27th October 2010, 10:43 AM
So pleased that you are home safely and that there is no SM, it does sound like the CM is causing the severe symptoms though.

There are a few dogs around with sometimes quite severe symptoms from "just" CM, whereas others seem not to be affected at all [as you know, about 92% of the breed have the malformation - it is not understood why this doesn't always cause symptoms, in the equivalent human condition, the majority have only the malformation and do have varying degrees of severity of symptoms]


The "kink" is abnormal, and will be causing an obstruction in flow - it gets squished and folded to accommodate the protruding brain.

You can clearly see this on the 2nd MRI down on this page http://sm.cavaliertalk.com/diagnosing/mris/mris.html

These are comparative MRIs which show things clearly

http://roycroftinformationcenter.com/Cavalier%20Infosite/Cavalier%20InfoCenter%20Health%20SM%20MRI%20Comps. html

Read this first though http://roycroftinformationcenter.com/Cavalier%20Infosite/Cavalier%20InfoCenter%20Health%20SM%20Primer.html

This is very helpful too

http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/part2.htm#14


Re submitting health results, yes please, you can send it by e-mail

to

send a copy of the report [together with his pedigree]

Dr Sarah Blott
CKCS Health Breeding Programme
Animal Health Trust, Lanwades Park, Kentford, Newmarket, Suffolk CB8 7UU

This can also be done by email: sarah.blott@aht.org.uk




It would be useful to advise both the breeders - thank goodness the one who is not doing any health testing is coming out of Cavaliers [pity the poor Schnauzers though :(]. Sadly Irish imports are often puppy farm dogs, who will NEVER have had any testing whatsoever.

I think I would send them the report together with a letter of explanation, and say that he has had to have the MRI and will be on expensive medication for the rest of his life, as neither of his parents are health tested which might have helped to avoid this, perhaps they would help you towards the costs? No doubt you will not even get a reply, but it might make them think a bit...

Margaret C
28th October 2010, 06:35 PM
Finally home and settled..... over 400 miles round trip... almost 8 hours of actually driving time....


That is a lot of time and a lot of miles.............
Flash is so lucky to have an owner prepared to do so much to find out what is wrong.




She has been "Breeding" Cavaliers for 10 years and most of her breeders were getting older. She said too many people were pressing her for "health tested" puppies. She doesn't believe in doing the health testing since she was just a small scale breeder just trying to make a little money on her dogs. She started having so much trouble placing the pups that she decided to pull out of Cavaliers and just breed Schnauzers.

The power of the puppy buying public. Let's hope there are some health campaigners trying to help Schnauzers.


the mom was 3 1/2 years old when she had her 3rd litter! :-X

Poor little breeding machine. I hope she ends up in a loving home.



I have all the info to contact the lady who has my pups parents but I'm not sure if I should even contact her. Since the CM is causing such sever symptoms in my pup I feel like she should know but like the vet said CM is almost a given in any cavalier.

Please do write. Breeders need to know they are breeding sick dogs.

Reptigirl
12th November 2010, 05:32 PM
Sorry for the slow reply!

Nicki - Just letting you know I forwarded his pedigree, vet record & MRI to the email you listed.

Also I notified the person I purchased him from by email and never heard back from her. Got her voicemail both times I called. She put up on her site where she is going to be selling puppies this weekend. Might just have to "stop by" and update her on the puppy she sold me!

Nicki
12th November 2010, 05:58 PM
That's ok we know you have been busy!

thanks for sending the information, that's a huge help.

I definitely think you should go and update her - it looks like she is ignoring you :mad: