PDA

View Full Version : Talked to the breeder



Reptigirl
15th November 2010, 03:23 AM
Well I talked to the breeder I got Flash from today. (She didn't actually breed him but got him and his parents right before she sold him to me.) She seemed extremely concerned and truly upset about his health issues. She read his medical records and the hand outs I took her on SM/CM. She even watched a couple of videos of Flash and his episodes. She was near tears and could not finish watching the videos at the time. I made sure to give her the link to the videos online if she could bring herself to watch them all (http://www.youtube.com/user/Reptigirl84)

She was very honest that she does not health test any of her dogs. She is a pretty large kennel in my opinion and has several different breeds (Papillons, Cavaliers, Chihuahuas, Schnauzers, Yorkies, Poodles & all the crosses to these breeds). At least the puppies she had looked very clean, friendly and healthy compared to other people I have seen selling large number of puppies. She said this is her first time ever dealing with Cavaliers. She had never researched there health issues and seemed extremely surprised to hear about SM & MVD. I pointed her in the direction of Cavalierhealth.org and several other links I had discussing health issues.

I purchased a 1 year "warranty" when I purchased Flash but as I have learned now it is sketchy at best because they are so limited on what they do cover. She was going to contact the company directly and assured me they would be refunding my money. It would really help if I could get that money back!

A little sad news is there is a new little girl puppy born to Flash's parents. She is 6 weeks old now. She was the only one born. That makes 4 litter of puppies to a 4 year old female. :mad: The breeder said that she is going to place her in a pet home only and advise the new owners of breed specific health concerns.

The breeder SAYS that she does not see ANY signs in the parents and they are her inside pets NOT outside kennel dogs. icon_nwunsure I tried to make her understand that even though they are not showing signs they more then likely have CM/SM. I personally find it hard to believe that 2 dogs could produce a puppy with such extreme symptoms and not show ANY signs but that is just my opinion.

I do have one off the wall question.... Flash's mom has had 4 litters of puppies. 1st litter 3 born 1 of which died , 2nd litter 2 born, 3rd litter 2 born and 4th litter only 1 born. Besides over breeding can the small litter sizes be due to health issues? :confused: I really don't know that much about dog breeding but it seems the people I have spoken to who breed cavaliers usually have litter sizes of 3-6 pups with the average seeming to be 4.

Thanks for taking the time to read my rant about my eventful morning! Feeling a little bit better knowing the breeder knows.

Kate H
15th November 2010, 12:12 PM
'I personally find it hard to believe that 2 dogs could produce a puppy with such extreme symptoms and not show ANY signs but that is just my opinion.'

If (and nobody knows for sure yet) SM is a recessive gene, then it is quite possible for a dog not to have it him or herself but to carry the gene. If mated to another dog who doesn't have the disease but also carries the gene - Bingo! All the puppies from the mating will probably either have the disease or be carriers. Until the gene is identified and we have a DNA test which will catch the carriers, we're looking for needles in haystacks; scanning will identify sufferers and remove them from the breeding pool, but this is the best we can do at the moment.

Your breeder sounds a fairly typical puppy farm (mill) owner - doesn't ask about health problems because she doesn't want to know; if she did, she might have to spend money on them. So I hope seeing your video of Flash will show her just what that policy does to the puppies she produces. I wish more puppy buyers would confront their breeders in this way - it might make them face the reality of their business a bit more. Well done for talking to her!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Karlin
15th November 2010, 01:00 PM
Agree with Kate's assessment and your rant. I do think it very unlikely that parents do not have SM -- she cannot tell without scanning. All the research coming back on breeding trials shows that only a small number of affected puppies come from two A scanning dogs, a slightly larger number from breedings where only one is A, and NO A puppies have come so far from breeding dogs with syrinxes. So the huge weight of evidence would suggest one or both dogs have syrinxes, and I'd guess most likely at least one is symptomatic but as she knows nothing about the disease, she doesn't now what to look for. And as well -- none so blind as those who will not see. Lots simply look the other way.

All of this is why this type of breeder in particular is DIRECTLY responsible for endlessly spreading ALL the worst health conditions in every breed they go near. If you keep large numbers of dogs of many breeds, how will anyone ever have the ability to be responsibly aware of the issues in each breed, to start with? And if you keep lots of one breed, even, it is very hard to see one dog's symptoms stand out. On top of this, they know nothing about genetics, they know little about the breeds they breed, they take no care in breeding (having a dog inside is little solace to the pet owners like yourself much less the dogs who suffer as a DIRECT result of their sloppy breeding practice), and basically -- they don't care to know. It is impossible to be so stupid as to not know pedigree dogs have serious health issues and randomly breeding any pair of dogs -- which will already be crappy breed examples as no decent health focused breeder would sell their puppies on open registration for breeding in the first place -- is the worst possible level of irresponsibility to the families you sell dogs to, to the individual puppies who have such a high risk of inheriting problems, and to the breed as a whole. If you spend 10 minutes googling cavaliers on the net you will get back lots of health info so how can anyone except through willful ignorance not know about SM much less MVD? :sl*p:

She is running, as Kate says, a puppy mill/puppy farm. Hopefully she will get out of cavaliers and give this poor breed a decent chance of slowly recovering through healthful, responsible breeding.

Health guarantees are generally meaningless -- unless the breeder is offering to cover all medical costs for the dog. No owner wants to give their dog back unless they are pretty cold and heartless to start with. Most do not cover any medical issues past year one and almost every cavalier issue is progressive and thus won't show before age 1.

anniemac
17th November 2010, 04:29 AM
I'm so sorry about flash. I saw the video and pictures speak a lot. I know You have so much love and are in search of answers. Im so sorry and I know everyone will be there for You

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Reptigirl
17th November 2010, 04:34 AM
Health guarantees are generally meaningless -- unless the breeder is offering to cover all medical costs for the dog. No owner wants to give their dog back unless they are pretty cold and heartless to start with. Most do not cover any medical issues past year one and almost every cavalier issue is progressive and thus won't show before age 1.

The first thing the breeder asked was if I wanted to give him back. NO WAY! He is a very loved member of our family.

I agree the guarantee is generally meaningless as well. It does not cover the thousands we are already out in medical bills but it does refund the money we paid for him. Something is better then nothing.

Sadly, I agree she is a "farm" and openly states it on her updated web site.

Cathy Moon
18th November 2010, 12:49 AM
I'm so glad you took the time and had the courage to confront her with Flash's SM and all that it entails. Hopefully she will stop breeding cavaliers, and maybe also have second thoughts about what she may be doing to other breeds too.