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View Full Version : Help needed with Crate training and general puppy advice



ourboyharry1981
16th November 2010, 08:46 AM
Thank you all for taking time to read this and offer advice. We bring home our 8 week old pup this weekend so I'm in the process of trying to prepare for him and make sure we have everything he will need but I spent most of yesterday on the internet researching crate training and I have read so much conflicting advice I'm just now at a loss :( Please can you help?

So the plan will be to have the crate in the lounge with us so we can start getting him used to the crate...I read that the crate should have a puppy pen round it and that the door to the crate should not be shut until the pup is at least 12 weeks old....is this right??? So what would happen at night time?

I should mention that I have 6 cats and they are fed altogether in the kitchen....should I feed our puppy in the puppy pen near his crate?

Looking forward to hearing your stories!

Many thanks

Rachael

GoodDoggie
16th November 2010, 12:15 PM
Crate training-is the most effective way of toilet training.
the idea behind it is that they wont deficate were they eat and sleep.they should be given thier meals and water in the crate.

you place them in the crate when your leaving,gate closed.(only for short periods of time,dont leave them in all day)and bring them straight outside when you get back.

young puppys should be brought outside to go to the toilet every hour,and rewarded with praise and a treat.say a word "toilets" "potty" as thier going.

as far as night time,you have to get up and let them out.

if your not prepared to get up in the middle of the night and let them out dont close the gate.they get up and do thier buisiness as far from the crate as possible,but this can be a bad habit to break

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-housetraining
Good luck:p

The Rouge Princess
16th November 2010, 12:38 PM
as far as night time,you have to get up and let them out.

if your not prepared to get up in the middle of the night and let them out dont close the gate.they get up and do thier buisiness as far from the crate as possible.

I would always get up with a dog.After all, if it were a child crying to be changed during the night, you'd get up.The point of crate training is teaching a pup to keep a clean living environment, allowing your pup to poop in the house when he fancies and then teaching "outside toileting" can and will be frustrating for your pup and you.Start as you mean to go on :thmbsup:

When Scarlett was this age, at night time,I would take her out at the latest at 12am and set my alarm clock 2 hours later,let her out and straight outside.Then every two hours after.Also at any time she cried to go out.As your pup progresses,you'll be able to leave the time between toileting, longer.

I think with a puppy from 12 weeks, you begin to learn the different types of cries - from whiney to "quick I need out!" whine :D

I always leave water in her crate as dogs should always have access to water.Insufficient amounts of water can cause the urine to become more concentrated in the bladder and lead to UTIs esp in un-spayed bitches.

ETA - Dehydration can also be fatal for puppies esp those who *may* be a little underweight, or dogs on meds,diabetes ect.

It may be worth advising to begin teaching your pup to signal at the door, to avoid accidents.The less "inside poops" and lots of praise and teaching a que word will all help in the pup becoming housetrained.If and when your pup has an accident, say nothing, clean it with either white vinegar or biological washing powder to lift the smell from the surface as dogs return to the same spot to "business" as they're drawn to the scent.Biological contains the enzyme that lifts the scent.

Good Luck and looking forward to pictures :D x

Brian M
16th November 2010, 12:41 PM
Hi

At one stage we had four Cavaliers and three cats .The cats were always fed at a different time and in a different room with their food out of reach of any patrolling Cavaliers .The Cavaliers ,three are fed in their own crate and Lily with me in the kitchen while I tidy up as Poppy is a quick eater ( and if free will eat anything in sight ) followed by Lily then Rosie and finally Daisy who finishes when she is ready .Sleeping all four have their own crate with Poppy ,Daisy and Rosie all together in the lounge and Lily in her crate upstairs by our bed .With a new puppy always leave the door open during the day so the pup can come and go and get used to it ,and with regard to nighttime its a battle of wits for the first few nights till they settle down ,so good luck and enjoy your wonderful new baby Cavalier .:)

The Rouge Princess
16th November 2010, 01:07 PM
Thanks Brian, forgot to mention about the day time :o I'd give Scarlett a frozen kong with organic honey in and natural yogurt and a few diced carrots inside and place it in her bed with the crate door open.

It's all about making their crate their special place where they can enjoy going for a chew or a snooze.To make their bed or crate seem more familiar smelling, I have always placed a t-shirt of mine or my hubbys inside, just draped inside her bed.She'd hop in there on her own accord, have an investigate of her kong and I'd hear her snoring a few moments later!

I once found her fast asleep with a half frozen kong attached to her ear fur at about 16 weeks :rollseyes: She looked up at me as she woke up with it hanging off.It was a bit "Scarlett does Pat Butcher" :D Sorry US members.I had to laugh.Don't ya just love 'em? :luv:

Actually coming to think of it, she's having a post walk snooze in there now - bless.

Karlin
16th November 2010, 03:41 PM
GoodDoggie is a certified, professional dog trainer, and her advice is the right starting point. :) I agree the best option is to get up at night -- this hastens indoor housetraining because though you can give them space distant from the crate to go -- eg have the crate inside a puppy pen -- then they get housetrained more slowly because you are giving two conflicting messages -- go outside, but sometimes at night you can go inside. Most new puppy owners will need to get up at 3-4am nightly with their puppy for the first couple of weeks.

You don't ever need to shut the door if the crate is kept inside the playpen BUT it is useful to actually crate train your pup to staying happily in the crate for periods of time. Plenty of advice on doing this in the book mentioned below. On feeding the cats -- just feed the pup in the playpen area. You cannot freefeed cats with a dog in the house however -- this breed especially will tend to eat all their food and grow fat! I keep my cats' dry food up on a counter where the dogs cannot reach it.

I'd also advise downloading this FREE copy of Dr Ian Dunbar's well known book After You Get Your Puppy, below. It has types of great advice on training and behaviour -- everything that a new owner will need!

http://dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

It's a shame your puppy's breeder won't keep him a bit longer though? -- 8 weeks is considered pretty young for toy breeds and they really benefit in terms of housetraining, bite inhibition and socialisation if they stay with parent and siblings til 10-12 weeks (more the norm for homing the breed with most reputable breeders these days).

ourboyharry1981
17th November 2010, 02:48 PM
as far as night time,you have to get up and let them out.

if your not prepared to get up in the middle of the night and let them out dont close the gate.they get up and do thier buisiness as far from the crate as possible.

I would always get up with a dog.After all, if it were a child crying to be changed during the night, you'd get up.The point of crate training is teaching a pup to keep a clean living environment, allowing your pup to poop in the house when he fancies and then teaching "outside toileting" can and will be frustrating for your pup and you.Start as you mean to go on :thmbsup:

When Scarlett was this age, at night time,I would take her out at the latest at 12am and set my alarm clock 2 hours later,let her out and straight outside.Then every two hours after.Also at any time she cried to go out.As your pup progresses,you'll be able to leave the time between toileting, longer.

I think with a puppy from 12 weeks, you begin to learn the different types of cries - from whiney to "quick I need out!" whine :D

I always leave water in her crate as dogs should always have access to water.Insufficient amounts of water can cause the urine to become more concentrated in the bladder and lead to UTIs esp in un-spayed bitches.

ETA - Dehydration can also be fatal for puppies esp those who *may* be a little underweight, or dogs on meds,diabetes ect.

It may be worth advising to begin teaching your pup to signal at the door, to avoid accidents.The less "inside poops" and lots of praise and teaching a que word will all help in the pup becoming housetrained.If and when your pup has an accident, say nothing, clean it with either white vinegar or biological washing powder to lift the smell from the surface as dogs return to the same spot to "business" as they're drawn to the scent.Biological contains the enzyme that lifts the scent.

Good Luck and looking forward to pictures :D x

Hello fellow Yorkshire Lass! Thanks for all the advice. Is it wise to use a puppy pen as well to feed Harry in and leave his crate in? I need to feed him away from the cats and so that he doesn't feel intimidated whilst the cats are around?

Thank you

ourboyharry1981
17th November 2010, 02:54 PM
Crate training-is the most effective way of toilet training.
the idea behind it is that they wont deficate were they eat and sleep.they should be given thier meals and water in the crate.

you place them in the crate when your leaving,gate closed.(only for short periods of time,dont leave them in all day)and bring them straight outside when you get back.

young puppys should be brought outside to go to the toilet every hour,and rewarded with praise and a treat.say a word "toilets" "potty" as thier going.

as far as night time,you have to get up and let them out.

if your not prepared to get up in the middle of the night and let them out dont close the gate.they get up and do thier buisiness as far from the crate as possible,but this can be a bad habit to break

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/errorless-housetraining
Good luck:p

Hi GoodDoggie - many thanks for the advice and for pointing me in the direction of Ian Dunbar!

Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the website suggest that a toilet area is placed within the puppy pen along with the crate? Isn't this then defeating the object of training them to toilet outside...?

I'm am just really confused with which is the 'wrong' and which is the 'right' way to do this

GoodDoggie
17th November 2010, 07:19 PM
your right ive never heard of placeing a toilet area inside a pen for the dog
:confused: id leave that bit out personally,also the play pen isnt entirely necessary.

basically there are 3 ways to toilet train

Paper method-not very effective and slower becasue your teaching dog to go on papers and then having to teach them again to go outside,unhygeinic,recomended for people who are out all day and cant watch thier puppy

Punishement-Dont go thier!


Crate training-you cant go wrong,only problem is you have to be thier and contantly keeping an eye on them.

and remember to never give out to your puppy for mistakes

GoodDoggie
17th November 2010, 07:32 PM
They EAT,DRINK,SLEEP in the crate.

dont worry about them not liking it theyll end up loving it,itll become thier "safe"area ,lots of comfy plankets pillows etc,and put a blanket over the top when thier going to bed.

Zumie05
18th November 2010, 12:23 AM
I am still in the process of crate training my little girl, Coco. We brought her home at 10 weeks old, and now at 15 weeks is really starting to enjoy her crate. This wasn't the case for the first two weeks, especially week one!

We have two crates, one in our bedroom, and one in our living room. The one in our bedroom always has an open door, and puppy pen around it. The pen isn't expanded all the way, but there is enough space for just a potty pad out front of the crate and that is it. This enabled us to not have to take her outside in the middle of the night because she peed on the pad instead of in the crate. Surprisingly, she only used it about 3 times and now can go all night dry. We still have it there just in case.

Downstairs is where we practice shutting her in the crate and leave her there when she is home alone. We close the door on her when she has a special bone, chewy, or a stuffed kong. She would cry a lot, and for long periods of time at first...but we ignored her. Sometimes she would go for 3 hours before giving up and konking out for a nap. We would only let her out when she was quiet. Also, when we leave her home alone, we leave a radio or the tv on for her.

Now that she is used to the routine, she likes her crate and will go in on command and runs in there if we scold her for something and her feelings get hurt. It is her little safe haven and she likes it in there now :) Although she will still sometimes whimper a little bit when we have to put her away for a while when we are busy, but usually just for 2 or 3 minutes and she settles.

GoodDoggie
18th November 2010, 02:46 PM
GoodDoggie is a certified, professional dog trainer, and her advice is the right starting point. :) I agree the best option is to get up at night -- this hastens indoor housetraining because though you can give them space distant from the crate to go -- eg have the crate inside a puppy pen -- then they get housetrained more slowly because you are giving two conflicting messages -- go outside, but sometimes at night you can go inside. Most new puppy owners will need to get up at 3-4am nightly with their puppy for the first couple of weeks.

You don't ever need to shut the door if the crate is kept inside the playpen BUT it is useful to actually crate train your pup to staying happily in the crate for periods of time. Plenty of advice on doing this in the book mentioned below. On feeding the cats -- just feed the pup in the playpen area. You cannot freefeed cats with a dog in the house however -- this breed especially will tend to eat all their food and grow fat! I keep my cats' dry food up on a counter where the dogs cannot reach it.

I'd also advise downloading this FREE copy of Dr Ian Dunbar's well known book After You Get Your Puppy, below. It has types of great advice on training and behaviour -- everything that a new owner will need!

http://dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

It's a shame your puppy's breeder won't keep him a bit longer though? -- 8 weeks is considered pretty young for toy breeds and they really benefit in terms of housetraining, bite inhibition and socialisation if they stay with parent and siblings til 10-12 weeks (more the norm for homing the breed with most reputable breeders these days).

Thanks for that Karlin icon_blshingim not one yet,im currently doing the course with DTI,and I hope to do a course with Coape in the near future.

and Her should be He:wink:..........:lol:

The Rouge Princess
18th November 2010, 03:31 PM
Hello fellow Yorkshire Lass! Thanks for all the advice. Is it wise to use a puppy pen as well to feed Harry in and leave his crate in? I need to feed him away from the cats and so that he doesn't feel intimidated whilst the cats are around?

Thank you


Yey! :D for another Yorkie.Where abouts are you from, if you don't mind me asking?

I have not experience with using a puppy pen but their is a good amount of advice on this thread for which ever way you wish to proceed.IMHO, I think it'd be better, whilst he's still young and allows the cats to become accustom to him, but again, I've no personal experience with using a PP, so it's jmo.

Do we have any piccies yet? :)