PDA

View Full Version : Anesthetic and MVD



MurphysMummy
20th December 2010, 02:38 PM
Very curious about this.. If you have a dog with MVD, and they need to be put under anesthetic for surgery etc, what are the complications and risks? Im guessing it depends on how far into MVD they are, But I'm really curious about it
Sorry if its been posted before!

Lucinda

ByFloSin
20th December 2010, 05:45 PM
I've discussed this with my vet many times over the years.

The present situation is that very light anaesthesia is used with much lower risks attaching to it. The vets will always tell you that they are very careful to closely monitor animals with heart problems - they say they do in fact receive a much higher standard of operative care than the healthier ones.

MurphysMummy
20th December 2010, 06:08 PM
I've discussed this with my vet many times over the years.

The present situation is that very light anaesthesia is used with much lower risks attaching to it. The vets will always tell you that they are very careful to closely monitor animals with heart problems - they say they do in fact receive a much higher standard of operative care than the healthier ones.

Thank you for your reply :)

RodRussell
20th December 2010, 07:03 PM
A blood test is usually called for in advance of using anesthesia. An inhalant form, like isoflurane or sevoflurane, usually is preferable over IVs like propofol, because it is easier to bring the dogs back to consciousness quickly in the event of an "event".

Pat
20th December 2010, 10:01 PM
I think that the risks are very, very minimal - IF the vet is competent and he/she is using the latest and greatest anesthesia drugs. I personally believe that almost all anesthesia problems are vet error. That's why I advise that if your vet is NOT comfortable using anesthesia on your particular dog, then by all means don't let him/her anesthetize your dog.

I've had many, many dogs with MVD over the years have dentals and surgical procedures (including major surgery to remove a cancerous tumor in a 14 year old Cavalier and a 13 year old Cavalier who had both eyes removed and a 15 year old Peke who had his remaining 4 teeth extracted). I've even had dogs that were in heart failure and on medications go under anesthesia. I am lucky enough to be allowed into surgery so I've been able to witness all of these procedures. There has never been even a hint of a problem.

I once asked my vet about other geriatric patients that have undergone surgery/dentals, and she replied that almost none of her other clients are willing to spend the money on a geriatric dog.....so her experience has almost exclusively been dogs that I've owned.

Pat

Pat

Pat
20th December 2010, 10:23 PM
"The present situation is that very light anaesthesia is used with much lower risks attaching to it."

----------
Forgot to say - for major surgery such as removing a deep tumor or removing eyes, you CANNOT use a very light anesthesia because of the pain associated with the procedure. A dog would not stay under with a light anesthesia. You can use a light anesthesia (such as isoflurane or sevoflurane only) for something like a dental or very minor surgery. For the 14 year old with the perianal adenocarcinoma, propofol and iso were used, along with preanesthetic agent. (Surgeon was a board certified specialist, not a GP vet.) For the bilateral enucleation (eye removal), ketamine, valium and iso were used along with post-op meds. (This was my GP vet.) I consulted with my cardiologist before both of these surgeries (and others) and told him the agents that we planned to use and got his okay. I forgot about an older foster with MVD that had a bilateral mastectomy and a spay/hernia repair - needed to do two separate surgeries weeks apart in order to have enough skin to close the long wound made when her entire mammary chain on each side was removed, and she also did just fine. She also required heavy sedation - ketamine, valium and iso. Those surgeries were also with my GP vet.

Propofol is a very, very safe agent. The problem with propofol is operator error - easier to screw up and not be able to recover with an injectible agent. I know healthy dogs that have died under propofol (not with my vets). Iso and sevo are more forgiving if an error is made because you simply turn off the gas rather than having to inject other drugs to counteract the injectible anesthesia error. My GP vet doesn't use propofol, and I don't want her to learn on my dogs! My bd. cert. surgeon always uses propofol but as that is what he does all day, every day, he has a long track record with the drug so I'm comfortable with it in his hands.

---------
Re Rod's comment about blood tests - I ALWAYS run full blood chemistry panel (not just liver/kidney short panel) along with CBC and urinalysis before ANY dog (no matter the age or health status) of mine goes under anesthesia.

Pat

Pat
20th December 2010, 10:31 PM
And one more thought - anesthesia for dogs with DCM (dilated cardiomyopathy) is much more risky than for dogs with MVD. That is because arrhythmias are much more common in DCM than in MVD, so the risk factor goes way up when arrhythmias are a factor in the heart disease. Arrhythmias are generally not present in MVD until it is very advanced. When my Capers was 16 and in end stage heart failure (and on five heart meds), my vet did tell me that she would no longer do dentals for him. Of course at that point I wasn't willing to take the risk either.

Pat (sorry for the multiple posts - I just kept remembering more stuff!)

RodRussell
21st December 2010, 02:57 AM
...Pat (sorry for the multiple posts - I just kept remembering more stuff!)

Pat, so glad you're on board here. You are the oracle (orifice?) for MVD cavaliers and anesthesia.

Margaret C
21st December 2010, 10:15 AM
I agree, Pat's knowledge is awesome.

MishathePooh
1st January 2011, 04:10 PM
Misha is 14 and has been under every year since age 11 for a dental and he has also had a CAT scan, MRI and lung exam. He was diagnosed with a heart murmur at age 10. He has always come through with flying colors. I think with current technologies and anesthetics, bad teeth bacteria can be more detrimental than the anesthetics.

I have his exams and procedures carried out at OSU where has has an anesthesiologist and the dentist as well as vet students watching him through the whole procedure.

Nicki
1st January 2011, 04:35 PM
Thank you for all these posts - Pat we are indeed extremely fortunate to have you here, you have so much knowledge and experience to share.


It's very helpful and informative for people to read, and does help when we have to make difficult decisions.


:thnx: