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View Full Version : Blog post on SM and cavaliers on the Pedigree Dogs Exposed blog



Karlin
3rd January 2011, 02:37 PM
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/01/cavaliers-leap-too-far.html

And it mentions a cavalier and owner some of us will be familiar with. :)

I must say I cannot see the excuse of the cost of proper health testing being a valid reason not to do it (see third comment down) -- how can that be remotely ethical? Many of us, especially those who have owned dogs affected by SM, will gladly pay a premium on puppies that come from scanned parents. And if breeders aren't health testing or following health protocols for breeding, then how exactly are they much better than puppy farmers or backyard breeders that don't health test? :confused:

I still cannot see why a single scan on a dam at 100 or 200 (or even $500 0r $1000), which will likely have a couple of litters of puppies with litter averages 3-5 pups in this breed, is going to drive away buyers by charging the small extra amount of scanning spilt out over all those puppy sales. And I would argue it is NOT the buyers responsibility anyway to subsidise *the right thing to do for the breed's own health and future.* Yes, those of us who care will be happy to help support some of that cost of better breeding practice in an incremental increase in the cost of a puppy.

But any breeder unwilling to take on the responsibility of doing the testing that may secure, we all hope, some sort of future for this breed -- should simply not be breeding cavaliers. Doing the testing is a responsibility to the breed itself -- and that ethical mandate to protect the breed and prioritise health, which is supposed to be paramount for any breeder, according to clubs and the KC, will not go away regardless of how expensive tests may be. :mad:

And it is, frankly, insulting, given how many of us pay thousands for (unsubsidsed!) MRIs, surgery and monthly medication for dogs affected with this condition, when all research indicates using MRIs and following a breeding protocol reduces incidence of SM.

Margaret C
3rd January 2011, 05:01 PM
I have replied in very much the same vein......


"Ah, but it is not about you or any other breeders, it is about the dogs.

Do you believe that breeders should not be asked to pay an extra 100 for a standardised health test that they have been demanding for years?

Who then do you think should pay for the cost of the scheme?

Cavaliers have at least two serious inherited health conditions that can lead to euthanasia at a young age. I would be genuinely interested to know what you consider to be an acceptable alternative to this official test?

No testing, and let the problems worsen obviously cannot be one of them?

How much do cavalier puppies from 'non-commercial breeders sell for? A good few hundred pounds each? Certainly enough to pay for the scanning of the parents.

Anyone breeding from properly tested grade 'A' parents have no problems selling their puppies. The demand is great and well informed buyers, especially those that have already owned a sick cavalier, are prepared to pay a premium to make sure they do have the best chance of a healthy pet.

When the 'dedicated' breeders are doing all they can to produce healthy cavaliers, then we can demand the Kennel Club and Government take action on the puppy farmers."


I do hope that some other forum members with SM dogs will post a comment on the blog as well.
It is widely read by breeders of other breeds as well as those interested in canine welfare issues and I'm sure the Kennel Club officials follow it closely.
Let them hear what the ordinary cavalier owner feels about people who breed but don't want to pay for health tests.

I have decided to add the blog link to the Puppy Buyers' Advice that I send out. Prospective owners can read Minnie May's story and know what the cost of SM is to the cavalier & the owner, before they start their search

Nicki
3rd January 2011, 05:23 PM
Sandra also posted about this herself on the board :thmbsup:

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?36653-Minnie-and-Jemima-Harrison-s-Blog-Spot

Bet
3rd January 2011, 05:53 PM
Sandra also posted about this herself on the board :thmbsup:

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?36653-Minnie-and-Jemima-Harrison-s-Blog-Spot


BLOG POST ON SM AND CAVALIERS ON THE PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED BLOG.


I no doubt will get into trouble for saying this, but I gave Money to RUPERT'S FUND , because I believed that it would help Cavalier Owners who had Older Cavaliers who could not Afford the Price of MRI Scans.

I do not know how many Cavalier Breeders have contributed to RUPERT'S FUND, but should this be a Stipulation, that if a Cavalier Breeder has not given to the Fund, then they should not be able to have a Free MRI Scan.

Bet

Nicki
3rd January 2011, 06:41 PM
Oh Bet I don't think you could do that - it would not be ethical.

Also there are some very genuine caring breeders who might not be able to contribute to Rupert's Fund, and are very grateful to be able to have the assistance of Rupert's Fund. They still have to meet the travel costs to attend for scanning, which is not always cheap these days. [Also of course they have the emotional upheaval - it is very stressful having your dog scanned, and there is always the worry of things going wrong, or getting bad news]


How would you monitor it?


Sadly there are always people who will take advantage of schemes like this for selfish reasons, and there are always many wonderful people who support the fund raising, even knowing that they are unlikely to reap any benefit - they are doing it for the good of the breed. :thmbsup:


I do understand your frustration though.

anniemac
3rd January 2011, 09:19 PM
I am going to comment on the blog. Really its ok to use cost as a response to knowingly continue to breed dogs without concern for this? Makes me upset and if the concern about helping byb etc. What are they doing different by ignoring these concerns?

There is no price on health.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Bet
4th January 2011, 09:52 AM
Oh Bet I don't think you could do that - it would not be ethical.

Also there are some very genuine caring breeders who might not be able to contribute to Rupert's Fund, and are very grateful to be able to have the assistance of Rupert's Fund. They still have to meet the travel costs to attend for scanning, which is not always cheap these days. [Also of course they have the emotional upheaval - it is very stressful having your dog scanned, and there is always the worry of things going wrong, or getting bad news]


How would you monitor it?


Sadly there are always people who will take advantage of schemes like this for selfish reasons, and there are always many wonderful people who support the fund raising, even knowing that they are unlikely to reap any benefit - they are doing it for the good of the breed. :thmbsup:


I do understand your frustration though.


BLOG POST ON SM AND CAVALIERS ON SM on the PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED BLOG

I know that there are Great Cavalier Breeders in our Cavalier Breed who are doing all they can to Save the Breed,also I do not grudge a Penny of what we gave to RUPERT'S FUND, it is such a Way that the Researchers can get this Important Information.

What my dismay about what could happen though is, that some Cavalier Breeders could take advantage of the Free MRI Scanning Scheme ,who are trying their Utmost to Thwart the KC/BVA MRI Scanning Scheme,

Maybe some of them have given to Rupert's Fund ,in that case ,why are they trying to stop the KC/BVA MRI Scheme.

Bet

sins
4th January 2011, 10:27 AM
Please Bet,Don't bring us down that road again...
Rupertsfund cannot dictate who has access to having their older dogs scanned and who does not.That is a matter strictly for the researchers and the owners of those older cavaliers,it's the decision of the researchers to select the most suitable candidates for scanning,regardless of who owns /bred the cavaliers.
The scans are like any other low cost scans...confidential between owner and neurologist,as Nicki says it would not be ethical for any third party to interfere.
personally I don't care who avails of the scans or what their political views are..
If any breeder benefits from Rupertsfund,then good for them...that's what it's there for.
It's got to be about the dogs...
Sins

Davecav
4th January 2011, 10:36 AM
BLOG POST ON SM AND CAVALIERS ON SM on the PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED BLOG


What my dismay about what could happen though is, that some Cavalier Breeders could take advantage of the Free MRI Scanning Scheme ,who are trying their Utmost to Thwart the KC/BVA MRI Scanning Scheme,

Maybe some of them have given to Rupert's Fund ,in that case ,why are they trying to stop the KC/BVA MRI Scheme.

Bet

Maybe they're not trying to thwart the scheme? Maybe they are trying to genuinely iron out some real concerns they have about how it will be run.

Just for example, think about the government or local councils who want to bring in new legislation, it can take years for all the gremlins to be sorted out before the legislation is passed. The KC/BVA scheme has got to be right for all concerned, both breeders and the dogs. If it is brought in without thorough discussions and all the 'what ifs' it could turn out to be unworkable. I know that people will say that it can be fine tuned later, but we all know how difficult, even impossible that can be in other areas once something is rubber stamped.

It is all very frustrating, but it's easy to take pot shots from the outside (we all do it;) when we are frustrated) but it will go through come what may - I think we all want it to be right when it does.

Bet
4th January 2011, 12:11 PM
Please Bet,Don't bring us down that road again...
Rupertsfund cannot dictate who has access to having their older dogs scanned and who does not.That is a matter strictly for the researchers and the owners of those older cavaliers,it's the decision of the researchers to select the most suitable candidates for scanning,regardless of who owns /bred the cavaliers.
The scans are like any other low cost scans...confidential between owner and neurologist,as Nicki says it would not be ethical for any third party to interfere.
personally I don't care who avails of the scans or what their political views are..
If any breeder benefits from Rupertsfund,then good for them...that's what it's there for.
It's got to be about the dogs...
Sins


YES Sins ,the FREE MRI SCANNING IS ALL ABOUT OUR CAVALIERS , what I am objecting to is ,we are Living on our Pension, but do not think that it Fair for a Cavalier Breeder who has NOT given to RUPERT'S FUND, is getting probably 700 for a Cavalier Puppy to be getting the MRI Scanning for Free.

Bet