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View Full Version : Breeder who MRIs in N.Ireland/Ireland?



nicola
9th January 2011, 04:38 PM
Hi all. I have a friend who is currently looking into getting a cav pup. I have advised her re SM and MVD testing and she has been reading up extensively on these health issues. Can anyone advise through PM of any breeders in N.Ireland or Ireland that MRI for SM? My friend has spoken to a few breeders who do all the other tests ie.cardiologist tested for MVD and who show their dogs (one breeder who is very well known and who even judges internationally) but they apparently do not MRI for SM at this point. Can anyone even tell me if there are any breeders in Ireland who MRI for SM or should my friend start thinking about going across the water to England to find a breeder who screens via MRI for SM?

Soushiruiuma
9th January 2011, 05:39 PM
I'm in the US, but one place to start would be http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.html

If you look under the MRI list it gives the dog name, owner, affix, etc. So you can find breeders that way. Just FYI, this tells you that the dog was scanned, it doesn't say what the results were, your friend will still need to ask the breeder for those.

nicola
9th January 2011, 05:59 PM
Thankyou for your help. I have already looked at that link and there don't appear to be any on the list that are from N.Ireland or Ireland. Surely there must be at least ONE breeder over here who scans for SM!!

Nicki
10th January 2011, 10:05 AM
Yes there is, there is one breeder who has MRI'd ALL her breeding dogs, the only one in Ireland I believe so far...will PM you.

theresa d
10th January 2011, 01:22 PM
I also mailed u lastnight,but mustn't have went through?? did you get sorted? must be same breeder that i had in mind.

nicola
10th January 2011, 08:00 PM
Thankyou both!! I will pass this on to my friend. At least there's one in Ireland that scans but imagine how many possibly SM affected pups the rest of Ireland/N.Ireland's breeders are producing!! Very scary!!

Karlin
10th January 2011, 08:05 PM
Yes, as Nicki noted there is one breeder, and she follows the recommended breeding guidelines as well. And she has a large number of A-scanned dogs she is working with. :D All cardiologist checked as well.

nicola
10th January 2011, 08:42 PM
Thanks Karlin. Really great to know she has a large number of A graded dogs!! I wonder what her waiting list is like? Will pass on all info, thanking you all!

Karlin
10th January 2011, 10:35 PM
Not sure. She no longer shows, she is focused on health focused breeding for the breed's sake and to produce the healthiest puppies she can for puppy buyers. She does work with several show breeders.

Given the number of good scans she has had makes me wonder if the time has not come to be looking at good-scanning dogs beyond the show scene to bring in fresh blood and good scans to the cavalier genepool. as many owned by breeders producing for the pet market or very small scale showing often have far more diverse pedigrees -- as I see all the time from IKC registered dogs I get in rescue. You are not seeing lots of line breeding nor have many of these dogs been bred to the popular sires in the UK. Of course this doesn't automatically translate to a positive health wise -- you need to be testing and know whether these lines are producing problem dogs. However, this breeder has more A scans than anyone else I have heard of which makes me think there's a lot of very genetically valuable dogs out there outside the main show breeder scene, if more could be scanned and located (important for research too and the EBVs). At the same time it is critical to note that almost all breeders focused only on a pet market do little to no health testing at all and what they do is often meaningless -- they rely on people's trusting nature to not understand this. I would no longer say to ONLY go to show breeders now, but I would say to ONLY use breeders MRIing and cardiologist testing and make sure you understand what these tests are looking for, what results mean etc. I only know this woman and have heard of oneor two other non-show breeders doing any MRIing so it isn't common; 99% of people worldwide will want to be looking for show breeders who also test and breed for health.

I have been impressed by this breeder who has travelled at considerable personal expense several times now to get scans, from a neurologist in the grading scheme. :) There are some good people out there both in and outside the show scene.

nicola
10th January 2011, 11:15 PM
Well being the only breeder in Ireland who MRIs I would expect that as word continues to spread about SM, her puppies should become more in demand! Her prices are really really competetive too considering all her costs for scanning etc!! I know where I'll be going when it comes time to add another cav to our family. Hope my friend ends up with one from her, I will keep you all informed.

Charlifarley
10th January 2011, 11:25 PM
It's great to know that such a breeder exists in Ireland. I honestly thought I would have to travel outside the country if I ever wanted a puppy again. Hopefully when that time comes there will more than one breeder to choose from. At least it's a start and a step in the right direction.
Hope your friend gets a happy and healthy puppy soon Nicola.

Margaret C
11th January 2011, 01:14 AM
Not sure. She no longer shows, she is focused on health focused breeding for the breed's sake and to produce the healthiest puppies she can for puppy buyers. She does work with several show breeders.

Given the number of good scans she has had makes me wonder if the time has not come to be looking at good-scanning dogs beyond the show scene to bring in fresh blood and good scans to the cavalier genepool. as many owned by breeders producing for the pet market or very small scale showing often have far more diverse pedigrees -- as I see all the time from IKC registered dogs I get in rescue. You are not seeing lots of line breeding nor have many of these dogs been bred to the popular sires in the UK. Of course this doesn't automatically translate to a positive health wise -- you need to be testing and know whether these lines are producing problem dogs. However, this breeder has more A scans than anyone else I have heard of which makes me think there's a lot of very genetically valuable dogs out there outside the main show breeder scene, if more could be scanned and located (important for research too and the EBVs). At the same time it is critical to note that almost all breeders focused only on a pet market do little to no health testing at all and what they do is often meaningless -- they rely on people's trusting nature to not understand this. .

I have been very impressed with the lengths this breeder has gone to health check her dogs.

I have for a long time thought that the cavalier clubs should be looking outside of the show scene for cavaliers that would bring some fresh genes into the show bred lines. Something that is unlikely to happen while cavalier clubs see their allegiance as being to their show breeding members rather than to the health and future of the cavalier breed.

Bet
11th January 2011, 10:34 AM
I have been very impressed with the lengths this breeder has gone to health check her dogs.

I have for a long time thought that the cavalier clubs should be looking outside of the show scene for cavaliers that would bring some fresh genes into the show bred lines. Something that is unlikely to happen while cavalier clubs see their allegiance as being to their show breeding members rather than to the health and future of the cavalier breed.

BREEDER WHO MRI'S IN N.IRELAND/IRELAND

I hate the Thought of Puppy Farms, but.....

Could some Cavaliers be used from Puppy Farms, to help the terrible State the Cavaliers are in because of their SM and MVD Problems.

Margaret never said a Truer Word when she mentioned that so much of the Cavaliers' SM and MVD Problems are with Cavaliers' from the Show Scene.

For example ,the Cavaliers in the MVD DATA BASE will mostly be from Cavaliers who have been Heart Tested at CKCS SHOWS and there are 50% of Cavaliers 5-6 who will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of Age.

There has got to be Fresh Genes brought into Show Cavalier Breeding Stock or their Health Troubles will never improve.

The Cardiologists now say that there could be so many Cavaliers around who are Carriers of the MVD Genes, the Cavaliers who will help this have got to come from some-where, it's no use Importing Cavaliers from Abroad because most World Wide Cavaliers were Exported from Britain and would probably have those MVD Genes since the Cavaliers originated anyway.

I know it is terrible to mention supporting Puppy Farms, but where else will the Fresh Cavalier Breeding Stock come from to try and Widen the Cavalier Gene Pool so that they could have the chance of Healthier, Longer Lives.

If the Cavaliers have as many Carriers of the SM Genes as they have of the MVD Genes, then there is no Hope for the Cavalier Breed.

Bet

sins
11th January 2011, 11:31 AM
Bet,
There are some nice enough cavaliers here in the hands of ByBs.In general people don't endorse pedigrees here so you would often find a pup without a kennel Affix who can have some wonderful dogs not far behind it.
The big,big danger is MVD.The last thing you'd want to do is compound the problem.
You would often find a three or four year old with a grade 4 murmur.My vet's waiting room is full of them.
Also since the IKC made microchipping mandatory in order to register your litter,many BYBs have stopped registering the pups altogether or ask the new purchaser to pay for the registration.These unregistered dogs could not be incorporated into any breeding programme as it stands.
However I believe that the remnants of some old Irish kennels are still out there who may have decent heart lines.However the task of separating the chaff from the wheat is a very difficult one and time is running out before these old lines are forever lost.
Sins

nicola
11th January 2011, 03:14 PM
What is the definition of a puppy farm? Not being funny, genuinely want to know. Hopefully no one is suggesting this breeder runs a puppy farm?!!

sins
11th January 2011, 04:02 PM
Nicola,
I would class a puppy farmer as someone who breeds large numbers of dogs across several breeds, with the sole ambition to produce pups as cheaply as possible, without due regard to the welfare of their animals and the health of the puppies produced.
I think Bet's point is that in order to salvage the breed(and yes, I think that's about where it's at),we need to look outside the showrings to non show kennels to find breeding stock who are not affected by SM...and that includes commercial breeders of all kinds and smallscale breeders who may have cavaliers who's health status is unknown but may be of value.
The last posts were not to do with the breeder who mri scans her dogs,just general observations about the crisis in the breed.
She is reputable.
Imagine the cost of taking your ten dogs to the Uk for Mri scans?
then driving them all to Dublin and paying for a cardiologist to test them?
(bearing in mind that we don't have screening days at shows like the Uk).
It's wonderful that a breeder listens to the needs of pet buyers and has responded in the best way possible.
Sins

nicola
11th January 2011, 04:28 PM
Thanks Sins :) Thats what I thought, I was just confused as to why puppy farms were mentioned in that thread but understand now. It must cost her a fortune to get 10 dogs scanned and yet her pups are such a good price!! She is obviously in it to improve the health of the breed as a whole and definately not to make much of a profit!

buddy
16th April 2012, 08:47 PM
hello, can somebody please mail me the breeder who MRI'd ALL her breeding dogs in Ireland, thank you

Karlin
16th April 2012, 10:06 PM
www.nearseas.com

She has scanned 18 of her adult dogs of all ages with Dr Clare Rusbridge, travelling to the UK to do so, including several older dogs that have helped research.

:thmbsup:

buddy
17th April 2012, 12:33 AM
Thanks Karlin for the information, I will definitly get in contact with this breeder.