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View Full Version : Hibiscrub and Devils Claw ?



Brian M
13th January 2011, 02:26 PM
Hi

I am thinking about bathing Rosies feet in Hibiscrub as she still chews them every morning ,if I buy it from a local chemist do I dilute it if so by how much any any comments as to its effectiveness ?
Nikki what comments have you re Devils Claw as an aid for her disc problem even though as I have said prior she shows no problem whatsoever .

Karlin
13th January 2011, 03:24 PM
It is a vet product so I don't think you can buy it from a chemist. If she's chewing at her feet I'd talk to your vet -- you don't want her chewing and ingesting chemicals from disinfectants (hibiscrub is meant to clean wound areas not to calm irritated skin or stop chewing etc).

Kate H
13th January 2011, 10:01 PM
Hi Brian

On my obedience forum there's been a discussion about a collie with very itchy paws. It turns out it is allergic to dust and house mites, but a drug called Cortavance (recommended by someone on the forum) has worked wonders. However, the name sounds as if it is a steroid, so you might want to be cautious. But perhaps worth talking to your vet about a possible similar allergy with Rosie? Meanwhile, bathing her paws in bicarb and water is an old remedy that might calm down the itchiness.

I haven't used Devil's Claw on my dogs (though I know people who do and think it's great) but find it very helpful myself when I pull a muscle in my back! But if Rosie's discs are not causing her pain, I should leave well alone; Devil's Claw is an anti-inflammatory, but it sounds as if Rosie's back has more or less calmed down already.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Nicki
13th January 2011, 10:26 PM
I would really avoid putting Hibiscrub on Brian, as Karlin says you don't want Rosie to ingest that :(


What did the vet say about possible allergies? I think it is something you want to rule out - you would need a referral to a dermatologist, and probably at least 8 weeks on an exclusion diet [novel protein eg venison and a carbohydrate source, and NOTHING else] - obviously under veterinary supervision.


It's obviously not anal glands as they had just been emptied so I think you can rule that out.


My other thought, which I know you won't want to hear, is that although Rosie does not have a syrinx, she has the malformation and many dogs do have symptoms from that - eg Tania's Dougall and Shannon's Flash [Reptigirl]. Sadly Flash has really quite severe symptoms without a syrinx.


Feet chewing and scooting are common symptoms as you are aware.


I don't think that Devil's Claw would be appropriate at this stage.

Devilís Claw contains a group of components known as iridoids which possess anti-inflammatory, antirheumatic and pain killing properties. The anti-inflammatory action has been shown to be equivalent to that of steroids, but the plant itself does not seem to contain steroids, which may be why it does not have the side effects associated with steroid use.


from http://www.herbsforhealthyliving.co.uk/index.php/commonly_used_herbs

*Pauline*
14th January 2011, 01:48 AM
I'm with Sinead on this, allergies is a possibility. The Scottie dog I look after used to always be nibbling her paws and rolling on her back, I'd bath her in Evening primrose dog shampoo which helped a lot. I told her owner that it can be food allergies. She changed to an organic food and the itching stopped...completely!!! I'm not saying switch to organic, but a change in diet is worth a try.

This is what she changed to if you can afford it, it's very expensive! The tinned food smells like human food.

Lilly's Kitchen. (http://www.lilyskitchen.co.uk/food-for-your-dog/1)

Or as Nicki says, it could be the CM. My Poppy licks her paws too and she is on medication for CM.

Brian M
14th January 2011, 10:10 AM
Hi

And thank you ladies .Pauline ,thanks I have seen Lily's but only looked quickly but I think I will get a months supply in and try it ,I only feed Rosie 50 gr per meal with veg and other bits as fillers so a month on this may give me a clue as to why ,Thanks again.
Kate will also try some foot baths with bicarb ,Thank you .:)

Sabby
14th January 2011, 01:22 PM
Hi Brian

I saw a link for Nelsons that Tania posted. There they sell Neem Shampoo good for all skin conditions. I want to try it on my Rosie as she has some sort of skin condition. I think you mentioned that you give your ladies Neem treats?

Brian M
14th January 2011, 01:42 PM
Hi Sabby

Yes we give them Neem treats and my groomer uses Neem shampoo ,they are due for a wash and brush up on the 22 nd of this month .So glad Harley is responding and if I remember Poppy told me to order some more of your fabulous biscuits she said she wants to try your new flavours .:)

waldor
14th January 2011, 03:26 PM
She changed to an organic food and the itching stopped...completely!!! I'm not saying switch to organic, but a change in diet is worth a try.


Pauline has given a very good suggestion, Brian. Because you are now feeding your girls a raw diet, here is something to consider: I recently read, somewhere, about a fellow whose dog had horrendous skin problems. He new his dog was allergic to grains, and had the dog on a raw food diet, but the problem finally went away when he fed his dog an organic grass-fed (meat) raw diet.

Cattle are usually fed grains, I don't know about lamb, chickens usually are fed grains, and the man's dog dog was allergic to the effect on the meat source from their own grain-fed diet. It might be worth trying such a diet on Rosie, to see if it helps, before herbals or Rx. Finding organic grass-fed meat can be a challenge, though.

Brian M
14th January 2011, 05:43 PM
Hi

Hi ,will have a look at the following ,thatnks for the thoughts.
:)
http://www.churchfarm.org.uk/

Tania
14th January 2011, 05:45 PM
This is what she changed to if you can afford it, it's very expensive! The tinned food smells like human food.

Or as Nicki says, it could be the CM. My Poppy licks her paws too and she is on medication for CM.

If it was allergy, it would affect more than her back feet, I would have thought !

Nicki
14th January 2011, 07:30 PM
I agree with you Tania, it would be extremely unlikely to just be affecting her paws.

If you are going to mess about wtih diet, you really do need to do a proper exclusion diet, there is no point about with different brands.

It should also be done under veterinary supervision and needs to be fed for a minimum of 8 weeks, with nothing else at all - no NEEM sticks, no teeth cleaning - the only things going in to her body need to be the novel protein and carbohydrate sources, otherwise you have to start all over again.


Such a severe allergy to grain would be extremely rare, I have NEVER heard of that before. For an allergy that severe, the dog would be showing pretty bad symptoms too.


The most obvious solution is that she is showing symptoms due to the malformation - this is quite common, as I said before.

Brian M
14th January 2011, 08:09 PM
Hi

The other thing that make absolutely no sense is "She only chews them first thing in the morning " never ever ever any other time which again makes me think it is just part of Rosies first thing in the morning wake up routine .

Nicki
14th January 2011, 11:38 PM
What surface does she sleep on? What is it washed in?

Sabby
15th January 2011, 07:58 PM
If it was allergy, it would affect more than her back feet, I would have thought !

I think you are right. My Rosie has a skin allergy. As she is a tri her white bits on her mouth and sometimes even inside her mouth go red and her belly goes pink. Sometimes she chews her paws. But it comes and goes.

Karlin
16th January 2011, 12:02 AM
Front paws seem more common to chew with allergies, probably because they are easier targets.

Nicki
16th January 2011, 11:51 AM
Brian, you might want to review this thread too


http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?36821-25-of-cavaliers-with-SM-symptoms-have-CM-only-not-SM&p=377891&posted=1#post377891

Brian M
21st January 2011, 10:42 AM
Hi

Todays action regarding Rosie and her foot chewing.

1) Phoned Mr Ben Keeley at North West Surgeons -waiting for call back
2) Phones Mr Marin Deutchsland at Chestergates - he has gone back to Germany
so waiting for call back from Luca .
3) At 10.00 am I am phoning Gentle Touch remedies for advice

Have already taken her to my local vets who examined her and said she is OK and no sign of any problem and is "as well as can be expected for a Cavalier" .:confused:

So see what today brings .

Ps Anybody tried these products

http://www.aromesse.com/skin-problem/Dermacton_Cream_for_itchy_dogs.html

Tania
21st January 2011, 11:37 AM
Has something else happened ?

Karlin
21st January 2011, 12:04 PM
Brian I am not sure I understand why she isn't yet being treated for CM using the same approach as for SM. As Clare's latest research paper showed, 25% of a large research group of dogs with clinical signs of SM actually had CM alone -- eg there is no difference for the dog which experiences the same pain and discomfort. If she is constantly chewing and you have seen other symptoms and you know she has CM -- would you not get her started on frusemide/gabapentin? That kind of chewing is very typical of CM/SM and you already have a diagnosis by MRI.

I would not keep searching for other possible reasons when you actually have a fairly direct relationship and diagnosis and when vets have now repeatedly said they can find nothing else that could cause this -- I would get her under some proper treatment and relief for CM/SM and see if that helps her.

Rubysmum
21st January 2011, 12:20 PM
Hi

Todays action regarding Rosie and her foot chewing.

1) Phoned Mr Ben Keeley at North West Surgeons -waiting for call back
2) Phones Mr Marin Deutchsland at Chestergates - he has gone back to Germany
so waiting for call back from Luca .
3) At 10.00 am I am phoning Gentle Touch remedies for advice

Have already taken her to my local vets who examined her and said she is OK and no sign of any problem and is "as well as can be expected for a Cavalier" .:confused:

So see what today brings .

Ps Anybody tried these products

http://www.aromesse.com/skin-problem/Dermacton_Cream_for_itchy_dogs.html

hi brian, yes, ive used dermacton on ruby . few months ago she got bald patches on both forelegs, she would lick and chew them which made them worse . after trying an anti fungal and anti biotic cream and skinscraping the vet was at a loss and wanted her to have a skin biopsy to find out more. as this required general anasthetic i was reluctant to say the least so i asked her to let me try some natural products. i found this and im so glad i did, it improved in 2 days and after w eek the fur had grown back .. i use it on myself too as i have psoriasis and its almost gone . i dont know whats in it it smells very strong of citronella ,but it works!! its about 12 pounds a tub and delivery was fast . i would say its worth trying for almost any skin problem .. i saw it on the many tears rescue site and they use it on dogs in a very poor condition and see great results ..

Tania
21st January 2011, 01:05 PM
Hi, I agree with Karlin, at the moment you are trying Rosie on all sorts of different things, it would take a good six weeks or so to see if any of these things work!

You already have her mri results. Try it for say a six weeks on a diuretic and gabapentin. When we started Dougall (cm) on his meds there was a change within a week!