Potty Pad vs. Outside & A Night Question

Overall things have been going great with Lucky since we brought him home. At the breeder's house, the pups were trained to go on pads, so it was wonderful that he knew how to do it from the moment we brought him home. But we also wanted him to learn to go outside, so we started taking him outside to go, too.

His basic routine is to be in his crate for short-term confinement during the day -- I let him out, take him outside to do his business, we play for awhile or I let him just run around, then he goes back in. Then at night he is in a larger pen with a little bed and a potty pad, and he's really good about going only on the pad. At what age do you think he should be able to hold it all night? We have such a good thing going, putting him down around 10 or 11, and then we don't even hear from him until around 7/7:30 (although I try to get him before he barks if possible). I don't want to put him in a crate at night until he's really ready. Anyone remember when their Cavalier was able to hold it all night?

My second question is about going on the potty pad inside during the day. Lately he's really not wanted to go #2 outside. He had a few accidents before I got smart and put a potty pad down and now he's been going on it for a few days. The weather has been pretty bad here -- there was snow, then we had an ice storm. Maybe he just doesn't want to go outside? Am I messing with the long-term success of pottying outside by letting him go on the pad? Or should I just stick with this until the winter weather breaks and not worry about it?

I don't like using potty pads at all, but I understand not everyone lives in a tropical climate. Even if you are going out to a garage, or covered patio it sets a precedent for NOT going in the house, and that's what I want house breaking to be about.

Some dogs will have potty pads inside their whole lives, it's just my preference not to allow this.

i find it really useful to leave one down when im going out , as i hate the idea of them bursting to go the loo and not being able to go outside.. ruby hardly EVER uses them but if she does i know she really needed it lol .i keep it by the back door and she very rarely does a number two on it. she prefers to wait to go on the field and have a good walk then shes usually happy to wait for another walk later.. i did crate train her but now shes one she has the freedom of the house just has the crate open for when she decides to go in for a sleep . i do sometimes hear her pad downstairs and then comes back up and know shes been for a wee in the night . i like the flexibility of having a pad down i suppose .

Coco was about 13-14 weeks when she started going all night without needing a potty break...but I was also not letting her drink any water 2 hours before bedtime, and I took her out at least 4 times to pee after her last drink and before bedtime (so every 30 minutes).

When she was first brought home, I also set her up in a pen at night, with her crate at one end and potty pad on the other, she too used the pad only. This was nice for me to not have to wake up to take her outside in the middle of the night (haha I was lazy). All other times was strictly outside only, the pad was just used at night.

When she went a solid week straight to us waking up finding the pad unused is when she graduated from using them, hooray!

Now we take water up 1 hour before bed and find she is able to hold it longer, and has just recently began to bark/grumble when she needs outside - she is now 5 months old.

I agree with Soush.Personally, I prefer having Scarlett go outside.I have never used pads or paper as I believe it's not fair to have a dog do something that's un-natural to it - "going" in their living quarters and secondly I believe the more a dog is used to "going" outside it save such accidents, say if you travel with your pet or, of more recent, festivities where we are visiting those close to us.If Lucky has always gone outside then it may have an impact on his housetraining but every dog is different, as we all know.I know it's hard when they're small and we've all been there But I believe outside from word go is the best way forward.I have done this with all my pups/rescues and had success.I believe, to a dog, the act of him "going" inside is still the same,whether there's a pad underneath him or not.He's still soiling inside his living quarters, imo.It not natural! lol.It's ingrained in them naturally-to keep vermin away from their dens.But it is totally a personal decision and I hope my post doesn't seem as I'm reprimanded anyone personally.I believe people should do what they believe to be right for them.

Scarlett has always been crated on a night and for the past few months has had roam of the kitchen and dining room, with her crate door open.I'd say she was fully housetrained at 5 months and after fully potty trained, we've had one accident last Oct.I just stuck with taking her out, crating her when need be when I couldn't watch her.From 13 weeks I took her out every half and hour, at six months every hour and as and when from then.I went by my pup and this was our routine.

What I also found helped was asking her whether she wanted to go out, despite I was taking her out anyway - and knowing she would need to do something.I held a nibble of cheese high enough for her to have stand at the door, said the que word and when her claws met the door, I praised and treated.I also said the que word again as she was eating the treat, to reinforce it.I believe doing this made an association with "out?" and "going" outside to hopefully teach her how to ask to go out,this turned out to be very help for us as Scarlett isn't a vocal dog in the sense that she'll bark to my attention.She's more like Coco in her grumbling and murping lol.let us know how you get on.

My last post won't allow me to edit, *grumbles* I wanted to add, that during the day Scarlett has free roam of the kitchen and dining room for the few hours that I'm out and at night is crated.I also believe, that if you know you will be using a crate, to introduce the pup to it slowly but surely, from the beginning,jmo of course.

Soushiruiuma said:

I don't like using potty pads at all, but I understand not everyone lives in a tropical climate. Even if you are going out to a garage, or covered patio it sets a precedent for NOT going in the house, and that's what I want house breaking to be about.

Some dogs will have potty pads inside their whole lives, it's just my preference not to allow this.

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I know what you're saying, and that's why we started taking him outside to potty right when we brought him home. But lately he either plants his front feet and refuses to walk once we get out, or just stands there shivering instead of sniffing around for a place to go. We always give him plenty of time. Then when he comes in, he goes a few minutes later.

I did buy him a little doggy coat hoping it would help when the weather is especially cold or if it's snowing or freezing rain. He's gotten used to it, but it hasn't made much of a difference in the time he wants to spend out there!

Rubysmum said:

i find it really useful to leave one down when im going out , as i hate the idea of them bursting to go the loo and not being able to go outside.. ruby hardly EVER uses them but if she does i know she really needed it lol .i keep it by the back door and she very rarely does a number two on it. she prefers to wait to go on the field and have a good walk then shes usually happy to wait for another walk later.. i did crate train her but now shes one she has the freedom of the house just has the crate open for when she decides to go in for a sleep . i do sometimes hear her pad downstairs and then comes back up and know shes been for a wee in the night . i like the flexibility of having a pad down i suppose .

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Yes, it does give you that flexibility, and I think if it works for you, then that's great. She sounds like a great dog.

Zumie05 said:

Coco was about 13-14 weeks when she started going all night without needing a potty break...but I was also not letting her drink any water 2 hours before bedtime, and I took her out at least 4 times to pee after her last drink and before bedtime (so every 30 minutes).

When she was first brought home, I also set her up in a pen at night, with her crate at one end and potty pad on the other, she too used the pad only. This was nice for me to not have to wake up to take her outside in the middle of the night (haha I was lazy). All other times was strictly outside only, the pad was just used at night.

When she went a solid week straight to us waking up finding the pad unused is when she graduated from using them, hooray!

Now we take water up 1 hour before bed and find she is able to hold it longer, and has just recently began to bark/grumble when she needs outside - she is now 5 months old.

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Wow 13-14 weeks, that's amazing! Lucky is already 16 weeks old, no signs of that yet. His pads are always wet (and often soiled) in the morning. I haven't been good at putting up water or witholding food in the evening, though, so that might help. I don't think he gets enough to eat as it is, so I always give him one more round of stuffed kongs in the evening.

I bought a Tell Bell, trying to teach him to ring it when he needs to go outside. But right now he doesn't even want to go outside so it's probably not accomplishing much.

The Rouge Princess said:

My last post won't allow me to edit, *grumbles* I wanted to add, that during the day Scarlett has free roam of the kitchen and dining room for the few hours that I'm out and at night is crated.I also believe, that if you know you will be using a crate, to introduce the pup to it slowly but surely, from the beginning,jmo of course.

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Ok, you have all given me a lot to think about... I am trying to follow Dr Dunbar's advice as closely as possible, but sometimes it's a little bit tricky!

I do agree -- in theory -- about taking them outside to go potty, period. But how long is too long? I mean, I give him all kinds of time outside to go, and he doesn't. Then Dr Dunbar says he should go right back into his crate if he doesn't go potty (so he won't have an accident in the house). I've had days where we've done this over and over, and he wouldn't go to the bathroom, and ended up with very little playtime and way more time in his crate that I would like.

I have to think about this some more... hmm..

love2driveinct said:

Ok, you have all given me a lot to think about... I am trying to follow Dr Dunbar's advice as closely as possible, but sometimes it's a little bit tricky!

I do agree -- in theory -- about taking them outside to go potty, period. But how long is too long? I mean, I give him all kinds of time outside to go, and he doesn't. Then Dr Dunbar says he should go right back into his crate if he doesn't go potty (so he won't have an accident in the house). I've had days where we've done this over and over, and he wouldn't go to the bathroom, and ended up with very little playtime and way more time in his crate that I would like.

I have to think about this some more... hmm..

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So he is used to going on pads right? Try taking a pad outside so that it is soft under his feet! Cut the pad in half after a week, and keep making it smaller. Also try going to the same spot every time, probably as close to your door as possible since it sounds like he is not a fan of going outside.

How long is too long to wait for them outside to go? I would always wait a maximum 10 minutes. I also wouldn't walk around either, I would stay in one place and only let Coco walk around me with just the length of her lead. If she did nothing, back in crate she went. At first yes it will diminish play time, but in the end it "clicks" and housebreaking gets easier

Whilst he's still small, I would walk him around on a lead.The movement is encourage his bowel to move.Talk to him happily as you lead him around the garden.A small puppy at his age shouldn't take too long on a lead.Of course, Lucky will need introducing to a harness, beforehand,apologies if you've done so already.

If you have success, with him "going" on lead,this may be a perfect time to start teaching him a que word so he begins learning to pee/poop on command, this can also help alot in ensuring they're empty.If you're unsure on how to do this, let me know.At 16 weeks, I began this with Scarlett and now she'll go on command even if it's only a few splashes of a pee lol.Handy at bedtime They're like little sponges at this age and the Cavalier is such a bright dog, have fun!

I dislike the idea of putting them in a crate after no potty, imo it's like reprimanding them for not going and I like to keep the crate a happy place with positive association.If your pup hasn't gone, it either because it doesn't need to or he doesn't understand why he's out there (!) We wouldn't expect a toddler to understand the concept of a potty straight away, it's very much the same.This is also why a que word can be a good thing and with the amount of trips outside at this age, Lucky will twig on quickly.

Play is important for a pups development, mentally and physically, not to mention bonding with you.I'd rather be extra vigilant and enjoy some playtime with my pup cos my goodness, the puppy stage doesn't half fly by.An alternative is keeping them on a houseline until they're a little older.

Zumie05 said:

So he is used to going on pads right? Try taking a pad outside so that it is soft under his feet! Cut the pad in half after a week, and keep making it smaller. Also try going to the same spot every time, probably as close to your door as possible since it sounds like he is not a fan of going outside.

How long is too long to wait for them outside to go? I would always wait a maximum 10 minutes. I also wouldn't walk around either, I would stay in one place and only let Coco walk around me with just the length of her lead. If she did nothing, back in crate she went. At first yes it will diminish play time, but in the end it "clicks" and housebreaking gets easier

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That's an interesting idea, taking a pad outside when the the footing is especially bad. (Yesterday there was a coat of ice on everything; every blade of grass must've felt like glass on his feet.)

I do the standing in one place thing, with him on a lead, per Dr Dunbar's suggestions. We've had him since the beginning of December, and for most of that time he was really good about going in the same area every time, and going fairly quickly after we got out there. I wonder if maybe he doesn't need to go as often now?

The Rouge Princess said:

Whilst he's still small, I would walk him around on a lead.The movement is encourage his bowel to move.Talk to him happily as you lead him around the garden.A small puppy at his age shouldn't take too long on a lead.Of course, Lucky will need introducing to a harness, beforehand,apologies if you've done so already.

If you have success, with him "going" on lead,this may be a perfect time to start teaching him a que word so he begins learning to pee/poop on command, this can also help alot in ensuring they're empty.If you're unsure on how to do this, let me know.At 16 weeks, I began this with Scarlett and now she'll go on command even if it's only a few splashes of a pee lol.Handy at bedtime They're like little sponges at this age and the Cavalier is such a bright dog, have fun!

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He's had a harness on since the day we brought him home, does great with it. I always bring him out on a lead, to the same area of the yard, where eventually I would want him to go someday when he is off the lead. (It's fenced in.)

We do use the same terms every time, follow the same routine no matter which family member it is. We call him to the door, put his leash on, take his paw and ring his Tell Bell, walk him outside to his area of the yard (not very far from the door). Then we tell him to "do your business". When he does, he gets a liver treat and lots of praise. We wait awhile, depending on what we think about how badly he "should" have to go, and how he's acting (standing & shivering, planting his feet, or happily sniffing around).

The Rouge Princess said:

I dislike the idea of putting them in a crate after no potty, imo it's like reprimanding them for not going and I like to keep the crate a happy place with positive association.If your pup hasn't gone, it either because it doesn't need to or he doesn't understand why he's out there (!) We wouldn't expect a toddler to understand the concept of a potty straight away, it's very much the same.This is also why a que word can be a good thing and with the amount of trips outside at this age, Lucky will twig on quickly.

Play is important for a pups development, mentally and physically, not to mention bonding with you.I'd rather be extra vigilant and enjoy some playtime with my pup cos my goodness, the puppy stage doesn't half fly by.An alternative is keeping them on a houseline until they're a little older.

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I know what you are saying, and although that's what Dr Dunbar says to do, I do bend the rules sometimes. There are times when I think he really must not have to go, and I want to spend some time playing with him. Sometimes that works out fine, other times he has an accident in the house. That's what's frustrating.

Maybe I am expecting too much for his age?

I am so spoiled by Chamberlain. He has been holding it all night for a long time! I know people don’t like to say a dog is potty trained until “x amount of months” but he picked it up really fast and hasn’t had an accident in months.

We do our last nightly potty around 9:00pm, he knows he needs to go poop and pee. Then my alarm goes off at 5:00am. He doesn't like to get up though!. He looks at me, snuggles deeper into the covers until I have to pick him up and put him on the floor. Then we go outside and he goes pee and poop.

We are very lucky that between my schedule and my husbands that the most he is left alone is a half an hour to an hour. But I understand that not everyone has that luxury!

Chamberlain said:

I am so spoiled by Chamberlain. He has been holding it all night for a long time! I know people don’t like to say a dog is potty trained until “x amount of months” but he picked it up really fast and hasn’t had an accident in months.

We do our last nightly potty around 9:00pm, he knows he needs to go poop and pee. Then my alarm goes off at 5:00am. He doesn't like to get up though!. He looks at me, snuggles deeper into the covers until I have to pick him up and put him on the floor. Then we go outside and he goes pee and poop.

We are very lucky that between my schedule and my husbands that the most he is left alone is a half an hour to an hour. But I understand that not everyone has that luxury!

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That's great! How did you know he was ready to go all night, did you just try it one night to see what would happen?