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Bet
20th January 2011, 09:51 AM
With some of the Acrimonious Discussions taking place just now on Various Cavalier Forums concerning the Meeting on 3-2- 11 about the BVA/KC MRI Scanning Scheme, which according to the CKCS CLUB'S Web-Site ,the Notice from the Kennel Club ,the Sticking Point seems to be the Reluctance of some Cavalier Breeders of having their MRI Scan Results being made Public.

Why I have used this Unlady-Like Phrase for this Thread, will this be what the Researchers will do as what Happened 20 years ago in the Midst of the In-Fighting with some of the Vociferious Cavalier Breeders when Dr B Cattanach ,Geneticist ,and Bruce Field the CKCS CLUB 's Health Representative walked away in Disgust and Despair from trying to Help the Cavalier Club with MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed , because of the Abuse that they had to Take from some Cavalier Breeders.

Will the Researchers into the SM Problem in Cavaliers do the Same,and just walk away from trying to Help our Beloved Cavalier Breed with their SM Problem?

I really would not Blame them if they Did.

Bet

Bet
20th January 2011, 02:48 PM
With some of the Acrimonious Discussions taking place just now on Various Cavalier Forums concerning the Meeting on 3-2- 11 about the BVA/KC MRI Scanning Scheme, which according to the CKCS CLUB'S Web-Site ,the Notice from the Kennel Club ,the Sticking Point seems to be the Reluctance of some Cavalier Breeders of having their MRI Scan Results being made Public.

Why I have used this Unlady-Like Phrase for this Thread, will this be what the Researchers will do as what Happened 20 years ago in the Midst of the In-Fighting with some of the Vociferious Cavalier Breeders when Dr B Cattanach ,Geneticist ,and Bruce Field the CKCS CLUB 's Health Representative walked away in Disgust and Despair from trying to Help the Cavalier Club with MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed , because of the Abuse that they had to Take from some Cavalier Breeders.

Will the Researchers into the SM Problem in Cavaliers do the Same,and just walk away from trying to Help our Beloved Cavalier Breed with their SM Problem?

I really would not Blame them if they Did.

Bet

STUFF THE LOT OF YOU !!!!

If I could be Allowed to Mention how Shocked and Saddened I was to Read on another Cavalier Forum about this Cavalier who is being used to Publisize the Questions about SM and CM.

This Cavalier is said to Vocalize in Pain through Very High Pitched Screaming Fits.

All I can say if this was our Cherished Cavalier ,I would be so Ashamed to let Him Or Her be Suffering in this way, We would be on our Way to the Vet's for our Cavalier's Final Journey to end their Suffering.

What does it take for some of the Vociferious Cavalier Breeders who are trying to put every Obstacal in the way of the BVA /KC MRI Scanning Scheme Progressing,and trying to do their Utmost to be Putting Doubts in Peoples Minds about the Scheme , are they Showing how Unconcerned they really are about the Pain and Suffering of our Beloved Cavalier Breed from SM/CM?

Bet

sins
20th January 2011, 03:30 PM
As someone who has shared my own cavalier's results and scans on this site and on several occasions allowed her to be used as a topic of debate,I think this lady deserves credit and gratitude for sharing her experiences.
Only by sharing information openly,can education continue and progress be made.
I was aware of some cavaliers who have CM only and still feel pain,but I thought it was caused by dilated ventricles.So this is something new to me and I daresay a lot of others to hear firsthand of a dog who has malformation only and suffer bouts of pain.
The talk given by C.Rusbridge at the BVA/KC seminar indicated that research based on four years of breeding guidelines backed up the hypothesis that SM can be bred away from over time.
But it'll be a long haul with many disappointments along the way,again,there are no quick solutions.
But with CM being so established in the breed,and as we see CM is capable of causing pain without a syrinx being present...it creates a dilemma for breeders who want to
give puppies the best chance of a painfree life.
There's no magic formula out there so maybe just give people a chance to digest all the information which is just beginning to emerge from years of research.
The BVA/KC scheme offers a decent chance to move forward,by quantifying the CM and SM elements of a scan....otherwise it seems that the situation may well be virtually irretrievable.If this tool is denied to breeders who are willing to take it up and use it,then sadly it may well be a case of closing down the Last chance saloon.
It's not fair to say what anyone should do when making the choice to terminate their pet's suffering.Each owner must make the choice based on their own situation,only they know how good a quality of life their cavalier has and noone should criticise an owner for trying to keep their dog going,some choose surgery,some choose medication,others choose to release the dog should the suffering become too much.
There's no need to add to anyone's distress.
Sins

anniemac
20th January 2011, 03:58 PM
I agree with sins. I have met a dear friend whose cavalier has CM only and she reminds me a lot of Ella.

She fears even talking about it because of criticism and I know how upset she has been going through this as we all have with any sick animal we love.

It is too much for some but I think its something to try to understand because I feel for her.

There are cavaliers on this forum with just CM who have to be managed for pain.

I dont think anyone should feel like they can not talk about things. Please give this woman who I'm not sure is some sympathy because she is going through a lot.

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anniemac
20th January 2011, 04:13 PM
I have to add my friend is a pet owner who fears just telling her story and has asked me in confidence how I help ella.

I feel her only intentions is to not have anyone go through what she has. When she said the mri said no SM, I thought through my own ignorance great. But it isn't great because she still has to treat her loved one the same.

The fact is there is a continued need for more research.


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Davecav
20th January 2011, 05:14 PM
I normally enjoy reading and leaning from most of the posts, and joining in sometimes on this forum.

I find the first two posts on this thread in very poor taste.

I have not had to deal with SM, and like others I hope I won't have to, but if I did I would like to think I would have support and understanding, and not be the butt of a cheap point scoring exercise.
.

anniemac
20th January 2011, 05:16 PM
Bet,

I really think this should be corrected b/c it will and has upset pet owner with cavaliers with CM. I hope tania will talk about Dougall. When pde came out and showed cavaliers with SM in pain it brought awareness. Actually I know that medication like prednisone has greatly helped some of these cavaliers.

I really find it upseting for owners (not breeders, clubs, etc) but those who are going through this. Yes, I think its very important for someone to speak up. I don't know who you are referring to, but do you honestly believe that a pet owner should feel bad for sharing what is going on?

With new research showing that 25 % of cavaliers with SM symptoms in study actually do NOT have SM, it does point out that they have pain and need to be treated also.

If someone shows their cavalier in pain from SM, I would be highly upset for someone to make comments about how I could let that happen. The point is that once treated most do much better and people should actually be sympathetic because a lot more is said about SM.

Please do not make a pet owner be upset more because of these comments.

We all want what is best for our dogs. I highly doubt the reason is to end the cavalier breed, but to show that their are cavaliers w/o sm and in pain too.

I feel that a lot has been done with research but their still have a need to continue to look into these things. I am not saying to stop the scheme, but to point out that we have a way to go even though a lot has already been done. If you watch videos of people describing pain a person feels with CM, then understand what it would feel like to see a dog in pain.

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anniemac
20th January 2011, 06:09 PM
I normally enjoy reading and leaning from most of the posts, and joining in sometimes on this forum.

I find the first two posts on this thread in very poor taste.

I have not had to deal with SM, and like others I hope I won't have to, but if I did I would like to think I would have support and understanding, and not be the butt of a cheap point scoring exercise.
.

I agree completely so thank you


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Bet
20th January 2011, 06:39 PM
I normally enjoy reading and leaning from most of the posts, and joining in sometimes on this forum.

I find the first two posts on this thread in very poor taste.

I have not had to deal with SM, and like others I hope I won't have to, but if I did I would like to think I would have support and understanding, and not be the butt of a cheap point scoring exercise.
.

STUFF THE LOT OF YOU!!!!!

Davecav.

I was not making a Cheap Point Scoring Exercise.

Where were many of the Cavalier Breeders 20 years ago when they were told that MVD was so Wide-Spread in the Cavalier Breed.

There are some of them still around to-day.

The MVD Problem is no Better to-day than it was 18 years ago, 50% of Cavaliers have a Heart Murmur at 5-6 years of Age.

Yes ,we had to take Ailsa with Fleek holding her wee Head up for her to Breath on her last Journey to the Vet, she was only 7.

If only many of the Cavalier Breeders had Listened to Dr P. Darke, the UK CKCS CLUB'S Cardiologist's Warning at that time ,then just maybe some of the Cavaliers in the Past 10 years could have had Healthier., Longer Lives.

I don't know how many Cavaliers you have lost to MVD , we have lost 4, the youngest Sweep , who was only 4.

The point I was making was that we would never let any of our Cherished Cavalier be Screaming in Pain .

That it's some Cavalier Breeders who are causing this to Happen because they are not co-operating with the Researchers.


How long must Cavaliers be being Bred have to suffer from SM?

Was it Nero who Fiddled While Rome Burned.!!

What Answers do some of the Vociferious Cavalier Breeders want about SM, they have been told by the Researchers what needs to Happen , yet they still find Excuses not to Co-Operate with them.

Last week ,we knew that Esmeralda ,our Pet Goat was starting to suffer ,called in the Vet, and got her suffering ended.

For Us it was a Dreadful Day.

Bet

Bet
20th January 2011, 06:56 PM
STUFF THE LOT OF YOU!!!!!

Davecav.

I was not making a Cheap Point Scoring Exercise.

Where were many of the Cavalier Breeders 20 years ago when they were told that MVD was so Wide-Spread in the Cavalier Breed.

There are some of them still around to-day.

The MVD Problem is no Better to-day than it was 18 years ago, 50% of Cavaliers have a Heart Murmur at 5-6 years of Age.

Yes ,we had to take Ailsa with Fleek holding her wee Head up for her to Breath on her last Journey to the Vet, she was only 7.

If only many of the Cavalier Breeders had Listened to Dr P. Darke, the UK CKCS CLUB'S Cardiologist's Warning at that time ,then just maybe some of the Cavaliers in the Past 10 years could have had Healthier., Longer Lives.

I don't know how many Cavaliers you have lost to MVD , we have lost 4, the youngest Sweep , who was only 4.

The point I was making was that we would never let any of our Cherished Cavalier be Screaming in Pain .

That it's some Cavalier Breeders who are causing this to Happen because they are not co-operating with the Researchers.


How long must Cavaliers be being Bred have to suffer from SM?

Was it Nero who Fiddled While Rome Burned.!!

What Answers do some of the Vociferious Cavalier Breeders want about SM, they have been told by the Researchers what needs to Happen , yet they still find Excuses not to Co-Operate with them.

Last week ,we knew that Esmeralda ,our Pet Goat was starting to suffer ,called in the Vet, and got her suffering ended.

For Us it was a Dreadful Day.

Bet

STUFF THE LOT OF YOU !!!

Forgot to Mention ,it still Haunts me to- day, the Sound of the Wee Cavalier Screaming in Pain from SM on the PDE Program,

why are some Cavalier Breeders in Denial about giving the Information that the Researchers are asking for to try and get the Answers for the SM/CM Problem in Cavaliers.

Bet

Bet

Karlin
20th January 2011, 08:20 PM
Bet, I've mentioned this before so many times, but will say again that I'd really rather not have threads that are started in order to bring up and respond to discussions being held elsewhere. Or to make this clearer: unless there is a very good reason for referring to discussions on other boards, I will remove the threads or posts that do this. In general this means there must be a broad and important point to be made that can ONLY be made by reference to some other discussion, or gross misinformation that needs to be corrected.

But in this particular case there is absolutely no reason for bringing up conversations elsewhere that the majority here will likely not have read.

Please in future ask me first privately or one of the moderators before posting ANY thread here that refers especially from the outset to a discussion on another board, that you feel might qualify for discussion. I do not expect very often that the answer will be yes.

In the case of the current discussion, just about all these points could have been made as stand alone observations without requiring bringing in what people on other sites have said or posted. So it isn't the general meat of the conversation that is the issue , but the way in which it seems to repeatedly always require talking about other boards and their conversations. I will from now on delete most such threads as unnecessary.

Thanks and thread now closed.