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Cavalier rescue having seizures what to do

anniemac

anniemac

Well-known member
me because he is having seizures twice a week, said he shakes his head, also will scratch at ears.

Not familiar with seizures but obviously something is going on.

I was going to see if ellas neurologist would help a rescue but what would one guess this could be?

She mentioned some medication I never heard of phospher something.



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I feel very strongly that the rescue needs to take him to a neurologist who is familiar with cavalier health issues, and they need to follow through with the neurologist's recommendations. I'm saying this because two rescues mistook our rescue ckcs Charlie's pain episodes as being seizures, and it is horrendous to think how much pain he experienced.

If there is not enough money in the rescue budget, they could do a fund-raiser on the ckcs-usa rescue website. This is what the Ohio ckcs-usa rescue did for one of their puppies who required heart surgery recently.
 
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If she does a fundraiser on the CKCS-USA Cavalier Rescue site, please let us know. I will watch for it on facebook too.
 
I am sorry but these are serious signs of a serious problem -- how can they wait and do a fundraiser without treating a dog having seizures? :bang: I hope I am wrong and at least the seizures are being treated in some way. And are these actually seizures? have they looked at the video of the worst-affected cavalier (the video used in Pedigree Dogs exposed) I have on my SMcavalier.com website?

These kinds of issues are central to rescue -- sometimes they need to consider what is best for this dog if it is suffering. And whether they can possibly find a home for such a dog if these are advanced pain sessions -- not seizures -- from SM. There is debate as to whether SM dogs have seizures per se. I think hydrocephalus is more likely to cause seizures (if they are not due to epilepsy).

Making informed decisions about such cases is going to be the future of rescue, so any breed rescue really needs to familiarise themselves with video of SM and EFS dogs and maybe get a talk from a neurologist and then determine a basic protocol for dealing with mild to severely affected SM cavaliers -- they are going to be seeing them come into rescue and need to be able to make a call.

If I had a cavalier come in with serious SM symptoms I would let that dog have its wings, unless someone within rescue themselves will give that dog a permanent home as it is too much to ask the general public to do especially anyone who has not cared for a dog with SM -- it is hard to understand how difficult it can be. If this rescue dog is having the level of pain of the dog in the video, the kindest thing would be to euthenise the dog (as the one in the video was not long after -- my understanding is that dog went undiagnosed for ages because people thought it was having seizures :( ).

Not all will agree but I cannot imagine how breed rescue would pay for surgery or find an informed owner willing to take on the lifetime costs of the expensive medications a severe case dog would need. And such a dog cannot wait around for weeks of fundraising -- they need to see an expert right away. Agree 100% with Cathy that this needs to be done NOW. Are they REALLY saying regional rescue have no funds?!? Even me -- a one person rescue in a tiny country with the population of just the greater San Diego area-- could cover the costs of a trip to a neurologist for a sick dog for a clinical evaluation. :sl*p: Surely professionals will also give a discount to club rescue! I get 30% off costs from all whom I work with.

Breed rescue also should really be talking to medical professionals about serious problems like this -- why are they not talking to vets and at least by phone to a neurologist? Why not approach LIVS or one of the many research centres offering discount scans to cavalier breeders? Surely they should at least get some informed advice.
 
Karlin said:
I am sorry but these are serious signs of a serious problem -- how can they wait and do a fundraiser without treating a dog having seizures?
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I worked with a rescue where the vets would allow larger charges to be paid off over time. So we treated the animal, then fundraised to pay the bill. Maybe this would be that sort of set up.

On the other hand often this same rescue treated animals who were really beyond help, and after extensive care were put down. It is very hard to fundraise when this happens because people donating often ask how the animal is doing, and hearing that it didn't survive, and we are paying off the debt gives people a really weird feeling.
 
Karlin asked "Are they actually seizures?" It's a really great question. I thought Riley was having many small seizures a week - which was what prompted her initial visit to the neurologist. Her neurologist told me they were not seizures, but vestibular events related to the damage caused to her vestibular system by her SM. Without an in-depth assessment by the neruologist, I would still be calling them mini-seizures. Everyone else who sees her in the midst of one, calls them a seizure. Only a neurologist call tell you for sure. This poor little rescue needs an in-depth neurological assessment.
 
I need to get more information of have her talk to someone

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The first step would be to see a neurologist but it was Saturday and I am going to see if what neurologist in my area (either ellas) but probably nc state vet will help with a rescue.

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He is only 2 1/2 but they need to first understand what is going on


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It would be good to get him to a neurologist right away and let the doctor determine what is needed. I would be asking for a pain assessment along with a full neurology exam.

All CKCS rescues are going to need to plan for an increased incidence of neurological problems in their rescues as more is becoming known about CM/SM.
 
Cathy Moon said:
It would be good to get him to a neurologist right away and let the doctor determine what is needed. I would be asking for a pain assessment along with a full neurology exam.

All CKCS rescues are going to need to plan for an increased incidence of neurological problems in their rescues as more is becoming known about CM/SM.
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I couldn't agree more..
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But why is *club breed rescue* ringing around to pet owners who with all due respect, are not the people they should be talking to? They need to be talking either to a well informed VET or directly to a NEUROLOGIST. They should not be using a go-between but talking directly to them, themselves. They should already have done this as soon as they knew this dog was having these kinds of serious health issues and is in obvious pain/discomfort! :sl*p: Rescue is about more than just rehoming dogs -- you have to get the proper care right away as needed for dogs that come in, or take the harder decisions that the dog needs to be pts. But this is a a ridiculous situation.

Anne, please do not tell them they will be spending $2000 on an MRi before they have even gone for a clinical exam. This is incorrect information and may have nothing to do with this dogs condition, and such advice may delay this dog from getting the immediate care it obviously needs while people dither over MRI costs. The coordinator should be directly ringing any one of the neurologists in the region -- they are ALL listed on Rod Russell's website (sadly the clubs have failed to provide this type of critical health-related information to members, leaving the huge gaps to be filled by people like Rod).

It is really really important for them to be getting the *right* information by talking *directly* to experts and this is the wrong way to help. In my experience it just causes more problems and confusions to be going through people who may or may not have an idea of what is going on and who end up passing along third hand information that may or may not be correct (eg not being sure of medications, symptoms, what vets have said so far, no familiarity with the actual vet records), which is what happens too easily with serious health problems. Just have THEM ring Ella's neurologist or any other neurologist in the region -- and tell them bluntly they need to be doing this directly and NOW. :mad:
 
And surely someone in that regional club or involved in rescue -- one of ALL those many breeders -- has scanned at least some of their dogs for breeding purposes and therefore knows and has a direct contact to the neurologists in the region. I cannot believe that this far into this horrific disease, that no one they know is scanning and therefore no breeders in the region know any of the neurologists... :sl*p: Is their only expertise depending on pet owners with affected dogs?
 
I called her, left a message and told her to please see a neurologist asap. That needs to be done. I have not heard back. I will see what the status is. She lives in my state so I told her to contact my neurologist or nc state but to see someone first.

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Karlin said:
If I had a cavalier come in with serious SM symptoms I would let that dog have its wings, unless someone within rescue themselves will give that dog a permanent home as it is too much to ask the general public to do especially anyone who has not cared for a dog with SM -- it is hard to understand how difficult it can be. If this rescue dog is having the level of pain of the dog in the video, the kindest thing would be to euthanise the dog (as the one in the video was not long after -- my understanding is that dog went undiagnosed for ages because people thought it was having seizures :( ).

Not all will agree but I cannot imagine how breed rescue would pay for surgery or find an informed owner willing to take on the lifetime costs of the expensive medications a severe case dog would need. And such a dog cannot wait around for weeks of fundraising -- they need to see an expert right away.
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I agree with you totally Karlin, having lived through this myself with several dogs now, it would not be fair to expect someone to take on a dog with such a serious condition without explaining fully what it meant, and it's hard enough to find good homes anyway. Cavaliers are so endearing and affectionate that you very quickly fall in love with them, and then you have the heartbreak as well as the financial cost to deal with.


If the dog is severely affected then he needs urgent treatment and if the funding is not available then it's not fair to keep him in life and suffering.
 
took to the vet and left him overnight. I thought she was going to take him to the neurologist today because yesterday the vet thought it was SM but today thinks it is PSOM. I sent Cathy a PM last night about some things and she said she would like to talk to her after the neurologist appointment today but when I just talked to her, she said the vet said now it could be PSOM. I don't know what his condition is but I am hoping Cathy Moon can give her better guidence. He has been with the vet this whole time and has not had any seizures or anything but I know he is being evaluated.
 
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