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Fifer
17th February 2011, 01:09 PM
My apologies for not posting this sooner, this little lad's case is being followed avidly on several forums. Charlie has been in our care for almost a week. He has so many fans rooting for him, if good wishes could cure him he'd be mended, so come on Charlie! cl*p

The story so far ...........

A few weeks ago I received a phone call from a colleague in rescue asking if I could take a cavalier with a very serious case of demodex mange. I spoke to the very caring and heartbroken owner and was horrified at the emerging picture.

As a rescue the economics didn't work, we could not afford to either fund conventional treatment nor tie up a foster home for many months, but I just couldn't turn my back. I "phoned a friend" who like me believes that many dog ailments could be addressed by natural feeding and holistic approach to healing, after consulting with her (very understanding) vet, she agreed to take him on.

The dog was just over 2 years old and had in total 67 vet visits, in the 108 weeks he's been on this planet :( costs stated to date 1555.65. The list of treatments and meds is horrific

3 x full Vaccinations
2 x Drontal worming tablets
21 x treatments of Advocate spot on
4 x 50ml bottles of Aludex
1 x 5ml Tiacil eye drops
1 x Carprofen injection
150 x Cephalexin 250mg antibiotic tablets
4 x 10ml bottles of Aurizon ear drops
2 x bottles of Malesab shampoo
1 x Fucithalmic eye drops
1 x 10ml bottle Maxitrol eye drops
1 x Dexafort 0.4mls anti inflam injection
1 x Malacetic ear cleaner
1 x Surolan 15ml bottle ear drops
2 x 1ml of 12.5% suspension Amitraz anti parasitic drug
2 x Clinagel 4g eye ointment
2 x Canural 15ml ear drops
78 x Prednicare 5mg steroid tablets
28 x Amoxycillin 50mg tablets
1 x Trizultra anti bacterial cleaner
Ad lib Piriton tablets
7 x in house skin scrapes
2 x GA's
1 x Neuter op
18 x in house baths

He is fed on a hypoallergenic dry food. A quote from my friend "Now the reason I mentioned about the food is not to have a go at anyone about what they feed their dogs it's purely down to the fact that Charlie has a serious demodectic mange problem and the food he is being fed is fuelling the mange problem, my aim is to get him off ALL chemicals and onto a raw diet where there are very little carbs and no sugars or yeasts, the very things that are in the foods he is eating are what the mange loves and are encouraged by.

His well meaning owner can cope no more, she did everything her vets advised but unfortunately she couldn't see the damage that was being inflicted on Charlie, the fact that he had his puppy vaccination so young, immediately followed by a strong wormer, then his eyes started to go bad, then his ears and as his immune system started to suffer he was vaccinated again and again, each time following the vaccinations he fell further and on top of all the other drugs he was having is it any wonder that he's now in such a state :sadly: It is literally a case of 'kill or cure', he cannot take any more drugs, he's weeping poisons and pus from all over his body, his eyes are ulcerated, his ears are infected and he has weeping paws."

This is a real challenge for us "raw feeders" and holistic believers done, not to prove a point, but for all dogs but particularly the love (and hopefully cure) of a wee guy called "Test Case Charlie", meet the very gorgeous Charlie

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley002.jpg

How bad is bad, well this is "healing"
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley009.jpg
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley008.jpg
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley005.jpg

Please keep Charlie in your thoughts, the next few weeks will be crucial.

Fifer
17th February 2011, 01:19 PM
Update:

Allergic my foot in parsley! He almost mugs Sandy for the raw :biggrin: stands guard at the fridge for food, if she opens the fridge there is a seriously big brown eyed appealing face complete with 'the whimpers'! icon_blshing No signs of skin (or any other) reaction so far, bearing in mind there are no chemical baths or steroids going in now.

Today he had fresh raw minced road kill rabbit due to Sandy's hubby :( which was scoffed in no time and had his Dermacton spray/cream massaged in - which he loved and made his skin a lot softer, cooler and less red. Top marks to Aromesse for supplying his treatment too! He has already sussed that this stuff is comforting and no longer runs for cover when the spray and pot are produced, that in itself is a huge improvement.

New pics for you

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley1003.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley1010.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley1020.jpg

Poor wee tail! :(

Sandy's post today
"By heck he took some waking up this morning, I thought he was a gonner icon_blshing Then I remembered he had a very busy day yesterday and was up late barking at the telly while watching the hyenas in the elephant programme :sl*p: He's looking and feeling very sticky with all his cream stuff on but as I applied another lot this morning I noticed for the first time since Saturday that his skin is lovely and cool where before it was burning red hot in quite a few of the affected areas, Also the cream has softened a lot of the scabs and I've been able to scrape them out along with a lot of dead hair, especially around his muzzle area. It's very much like the mud fever horses get where the hair clumps together and scabs over. I'll give him a weekly bath using his new shampoo bar at the weekend, that'll freshen him up :biggrin:"

But as I pointed out this wee chap probably hasn't been sleeping properly due to his hot and itchy skin. Hopefully this is the beginning of a new life for Charlie.

meljoy
17th February 2011, 01:51 PM
Oh bless him :) And bless you for obviously making this little guys life so much more comfy.cl*p
Praying he'll make a full recovery

anniemac
17th February 2011, 02:12 PM
Come on Charlie:rah: I am rooting for you! Thank you so much for helping a special needs Cavalier. That is a hard thing to do and I am so thankful he is in your care

Tania
17th February 2011, 02:34 PM
Bless you for helping this poor little fellow. Please keep us posted with his progress. It looks as though you are going to have a bit of a battle on your hands to get Charlie fit and well.

One year ago we rescued a little girl called Dotty, her skin was very red, sore and very dry. We got her onto a totally natural diet, meat, ground bone and veg. Dotty was nowhere near as bad as your Charlie but within approx 8 months, her skin and coat were in great condition. So your point about feeding is very interesting.

So good luck and will watch Charlies progress with great interest. Thank you for posting. cl*p

Charlifarley
17th February 2011, 02:59 PM
Poor little Charlie. Thank goodness he seems to be doing so much better so soon, that has to be a good sign for him. :xfngr:
Hope he continues on his road to recovery, will you keep us posted?

Fifer
17th February 2011, 03:48 PM
Of course I will update regularly, but I'm so laughing here because "Charlie Farley" is what his fostermum is calling him! :grin:

Cathy T
17th February 2011, 04:25 PM
I am so relieved you all have this adorable boy...and aren't vaccinating the you-know-what out of him anymore ;) I've seen several dogs who have come into rescue in this condition and you would never know it to look at them now!! You are definitely on the right path to making this boy whole again. I have no doubt he had the best sleep last night that he's probably ever had! Can't wait to watch him progress under your incredibly capable and loving care.

Karlin
17th February 2011, 06:04 PM
Glad he seems in some part to be on the mend. :flwr:

I wonder if perhaps he is actually partly deaf? In every dog I have encountered that was 'hard to wake up', that's the main reason.

The larger worry I would have is that what is being seen is an effect, *not* the problem in itself, and that he has a deeper underlying health issue. Hopefully his mange will clear -- all rescues deal regularly with that as par for the course in rescue dogs, and while it is a hassle because of the time involved, it isn't usually a major problem, just a headache. But going by the list of things he has been treated for, there's been ongoing eye, skin and ear problems as well as GI, and the need for a lot of pain and inflammation treatment. To me in a dog so young that signals perhaps you are dealing with something more serious -- has he been checked by someone familiar with autoimmune problems, dry eye/curly coat, etc? Some of what you describe sounds like dry eye/curly coat, which is very serious, causes a lot of suffering for the dog, and many will put down puppies rather than have them live with the suffering this causes. Generally eventually the dog just cannot take any more and needs to be given his/her wings. How familiar have the consulting vets been with cavalier health problems and are they aware of these breed-associated problems?

Personally I'd find it hard to believe a hypoallergenic food could be 'feeding' the problem and increasing his issues but that's me. If it is true that he definitely isn't deaf yet actually wouldn't even respond initially to the foster in the morning, I'd also be concerned that this is far more serious in aggregate than the surface treatments so far for specific elements indicate. I simply cannot see how he would be so tired that he wouldn't wake up to such a degree that she thought he might be dead. :yikes

Overall: I'd want to know the longer story of what he has been treated FOR and WHY, rather than what he has been treated WITH (as these are all standard approaches to some common issues but could indicate regular misdiagnosis of something more serious too). It is a shame he went through three series of full injections -- does that mean the whole puppy series three times? Or three sets of vaccines (which would actually be normal for a dog -- puppy series of two, one year booster). And unless there was serious malnutrition and neglect behind those problems (doesn't seem to be?), I'd probably be getting him into a university vet school because I think you may be looking at a more serious underlying problem. Best of luck in treating him and hope it isn't a lager problem and that he makes a full recovery and can go on to a forever home. :flwr:

Karlin
17th February 2011, 06:18 PM
Dry eye/curly coat:

http://www.cavalierhealth.org/dry_eye.htm

http://www.cavaliercampaign.com/other-health-problems.htm#dryeye

Maybe it would be worth talking to the AHT researchers?

merello
17th February 2011, 08:02 PM
Oh Eileen, that photo of him with the collar on and those big eyes just melt your heart.:l*v:
Please keep us posted , he's such a poor wee soul.

renate
17th February 2011, 09:10 PM
bless little charlie, and you, for taking him 'under your wing':)
i have seen similar cases here, some looking just as bad as the pictures of charlie.
they all improved a lot with the right kind of food and TLC.

:hug: for you and charlie.

Wagtails
18th February 2011, 09:29 AM
Well done for giving him a chance, Eileen. Even if he has more serious problems, as Karlin fears, at least you are making him more comfortable for the time being.


Do keep posting on the little fella. My old Megan had a bad case of mange a few years ago (from local foxes). It was never as bad as poor Charlie's, but still took around 5 months to fully recover and certainly not anything I would want to repeat with any dog ever :(


Is there anywhere we can contribute towards his care if anyone wants to help in this way?

Fifer
18th February 2011, 12:39 PM
We took Charlie on (with vet's agreement) knowing his full veterinary history (14 x A4 pages of it!) critically, for us, because he was being considered for euthanasia at that point.

He was refused by several rescues (including ours) before we offered this space to him on the understanding his treatment would not be conventional. He still may not survive, he may have an underlying condition, but we will give him a chance and some quality time being treated as much like a normal dog as possible. Should he survive and do well he has a home for life.

*IF* this detox works, he will be blood panel tested to rule in or out Hydrothyroidism etc and blood will also be taken for titre testing. No other intrusive work will be done, it's about Charlie's quality of life for how ever long he's got. Unfortunately, although understandably, he had a morbid fear of vets and being handled, and had become a bit snappy at the vets. Luckily cavaliers don't hold grudges and he is now enjoying being handled and massaged with cream.

Other than one bout of conjunctivitis, Charlie was a fairly normal puppy up to 5/6 months old when the localised demodex problem first arose around his muzzle. From the start it was treated aggressively with steroids, antibiotics and baths, rather than waiting to see if his immune system could repair itself and control the mites naturally, or if the condition would generalise. Since then it has been a steady downhill slide. Boosters were given at 1 year and 2 year on both occasions concurrent with steroid treatment.

He has had primary vaccination (x 2) @ 7.5 weeks and 9.5 weeks respectively, first and second annual boosters.

Fifer
18th February 2011, 12:47 PM
Is there anywhere we can contribute towards his care if anyone wants to help in this way?

Thank you for the very kind offer Wagtails :thmbsup:, but Charlie honestly doesn't need anything at the moment. When Aromesse saw his pics they kindly donated his creams, sprays and ear lotion, we are very grateful for that. :flwr:

Wagtails
18th February 2011, 01:27 PM
OK, Eileen - but let us know if anything changes on the care requirement side, won't you? :d*g:

ByFloSin
18th February 2011, 02:03 PM
My first reaction when reading about this boy was to think Dry Eye/Curly Coat. The eye ulcers and skin scabs are a typical symptom of this.

There is a non intrusive test which can be easily done next time he is at the vet's. Just ask for a tear count or Schirmer Test. This is done by inserting a piece of thin paper coated card next to the tear duct, something like litmus and then counting the numbers on the scale for exactly one minute, which then gives the rate of tear production from the eye.

15 per minute is a good average count. Lower could indicate DE because without the lubrication given by the natural production of tears every time the eyelids brush against the surface of the eye it's like a piece of sandpaper being rubbed on the cornea. I have slight dry eye myself due to age and I can tell you it feels like you have a piece of grit in the eye and is very unpleasant.

The scabs and hot spots are a typical symptom of Curly Coat too, and can be dealt with quite well by using creams such as the one you have mentioned.

Regular vaccinations and the feeding of processed foods have no connection with CC/DE, which is a genetic and inherited disease.

This dog may have 36 odd pages of veterinary history, but I think you should take into account that DE/CC is still comparatively rare enough for most GP vets to know little or nothing about it. It takes an experienced opthalmologist to make a positive diagnosis and produce a treatment regime suitable for that particular dog, which is then passed on to the GP vet providing routine care.

The Schirmer Test can be done quickly and easily by the local vet and I really think you should get this done.

Fifer
18th February 2011, 02:45 PM
My first reaction when reading about this boy was to think Dry Eye/Curly Coat. The eye ulcers and skin scabs are a typical symptom of this.

There is a non intrusive test which can be easily done next time he is at the vet's. Just ask for a tear count or Schirmer Test. This is done by inserting a piece of thin paper coated card next to the tear duct, something like litmus and then counting the numbers on the scale for exactly one minute, which then gives the rate of tear production from the eye.

15 per minute is a good average count. Lower could indicate DE because without the lubrication given by the natural production of tears every time the eyelids brush against the surface of the eye it's like a piece of sandpaper being rubbed on the cornea. I have slight dry eye myself due to age and I can tell you it feels like you have a piece of grit in the eye and is very unpleasant.

The scabs and hot spots are a typical symptom of Curly Coat too, and can be dealt with quite well by using creams such as the one you have mentioned.

Regular vaccinations and the feeding of processed foods have no connection with CC/DE, which is a genetic and inherited disease.

This dog may have 36 odd pages of veterinary history, but I think you should take into account that DE/CC is still comparatively rare enough for most GP vets to know little or nothing about it. It takes an experienced opthalmologist to make a positive diagnosis and produce a treatment regime suitable for that particular dog, which is then passed on to the GP vet providing routine care.

The Schirmer Test can be done quickly and easily by the local vet and I really think you should get this done.

Thanks, I am aware of Dry Eye, I have a cocker with the condition as well as having previously treated a cavalier with it.

ByFloSin
18th February 2011, 05:08 PM
Thanks, I am aware of Dry Eye, I have a cocker with the condition as well as having previously treated a cavalier with it.

With respect, I am talking about Dry Eye/Curly Coat, which is a much more serious condition than Dry Eye alone. Do you have any experience of that?

Fifer
19th February 2011, 10:08 AM
With respect, I am talking about Dry Eye/Curly Coat, which is a much more serious condition than Dry Eye alone. Do you have any experience of that?

Sorry perhaps I should have been clearer but then I have the vet reports to read through. Charlie's does NOT suffer from dry eye and HAS been tested, on 27/01/2010. In fact his foster mum was concerned about the amount of water/tears coming from his eyes on Monday.

lindylou
19th February 2011, 10:29 AM
tears filled my eyes when i read and looked at those pics of charlie
charlie you are in my thoughts and prays get well asap and what a good person you are to take charlie on

Fifer
19th February 2011, 10:40 AM
Well it's just about a week since Charley arrived. He's loving his raw food and has eaten rabbit, lamb and chicken with no ill effects despite apparently being allergic to chicken; cooked processed chicken in dried food perhaps but not raw chicken it seems :D

This morning he was so excited to see that the others were having sardines that I relented and gave him a tin too, next 24 hours might be interesting :lol:

He's sleeping really well, definitely not a morning boy which will have to change :rolleyes: His skin is much softer, pinker and so much cooler than when he first arrived, his eyes are nice and bright, his drinking has reduced by at least 75%, his ears have stayed clean and no longer smell. I did have to trim his ears (sorry Cav owners) as they were really matted and there were some sores underneath it all, so at least they are getting fresh air now and have improved a lot.

He's a greedy little beggar but saying that he has also lost a 1/3rd of a kilo, might not seem much but he's a little dog and I have been feeding him more good raw food that he would normally have just to get it in his system and help him to recover.

Although too small to counter or table top surf in the conventional way Charley uses his brain and if there is a chair that hasn't been tucked in he will hop on it in order to gain the extra height he needs to walk on the table :o So chairs are firmly tucked away! Anyway here's a couple of pics taken this morning, I was hoping his new shampoo bar would have arrived so he could have had his first bath but so far no post :(

We all, including the house, smell of citronella to the extent that I could gag sometimes but what's a nice :yuk: lemony smell when it comes to helping Charlie.

Sandy & Charley x

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley2006.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley2005.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley2018.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley2017.jpg

I must say I am impressed with the coat improvement, in just 5 days there seems to be a little hair growth. I think he will have a gorgeous coat when it grows back fully. Hmmmmmmmm Wonder if it works for baldy men? Aromesse may have a missed marketing opportunity there! :fool: :badgrin:

James
19th February 2011, 02:08 PM
Poor wee soul, I have never stopped thinking of him since I first read your post yesterday, good for you to give him the chance when others declined. I do not know anything about raw feeding but if it works as you say this will be a test case indeed.
I am shocked the vet list though all those chemicals!

merello
19th February 2011, 03:59 PM
So pleased Charley is making progress!!

Sandrac
19th February 2011, 05:39 PM
What a great improvement in such a short time - keep up the good work:)

Margaret C
19th February 2011, 11:08 PM
You are doing such a wonderful job on this poor little boy. Thank goodness there are people like you around.

Jane P
20th February 2011, 09:25 AM
Sorry perhaps I should have been clearer but then I have the vet reports to read through. Charlie's does NOT suffer from dry eye and HAS been tested, on 27/01/2010. In fact his foster mum was concerned about the amount of water/tears coming from his eyes on Monday.

My cavalier went through months of eye problems but my vet insisted he did not have dry eye because his schirmer test was OK. Eventually I insisted he was referred to an ophthalmologist when he developed severe ulcers. The ophthalmologist knew immediately he had dry eye although his worst affected eye was so damaged it was producing excess amounts of tears and the schirmer test in this eye was over 20. He ended up having to have an emergency corneal graft which is extremely expensive. Please bear in mind what Flo has said about her Holly Poppet.

Fifer
20th February 2011, 03:34 PM
My cavalier went through months of eye problems but my vet insisted he did not have dry eye because his schirmer test was OK. Eventually I insisted he was referred to an ophthalmologist when he developed severe ulcers. The ophthalmologist knew immediately he had dry eye although his worst affected eye was so damaged it was producing excess amounts of tears and the schirmer test in this eye was over 20. He ended up having to have an emergency corneal graft which is extremely expensive. Please bear in mind what Flo has said about her Holly Poppet.
I am very sorry to hear about the suffering your cavalier endured. No doubt this experience has coloured your perspective, however Charlie is not the same dog nor are his symptoms the same. In Charlie's case, one day of a runny eye on Monday does not make it a long standing problem; nor does having mild conjunctivitis 3 times in 2 years and 4 months (2 of which occurred following vaccination), all of which cleared up within a week. Indeed Sandy's last post stated "eyes nice and bright" which is evidenced in his latest photo, had Charlie had months of eye problems like your dog, I would have stated so.

I am not a vet, I have not seen the dog other than the pictures you have also seen on this thread, but I have had the benefit of having read his veterinary report, of talking directly with his foster mum, previous owner and previous vet, as well as personal research of possible links or causes over a 4 week time frame, mostly until the early hours of the morning.

We do expect to encounter highs and lows, we both have very open minds and hope to increase our knowledge and understanding for the benefit of all dogs; to that end I can see no point in hiding facts. However, we are not going off on a wild goose chase looking for problems that aren't obvious, unless or until several symptoms coming together point us in one direction. As indeed does the link to the immune system, vaccination, commercial foods and hypothyroidism as seen on the following link

http://www.suite101.com/content/canine-hypothyroidism-a8673

"Several causes have been proposed for the rising incidence of canine hypothyroidism. Vaccines and inadequate or excess dietary iodine are the primary suspected causes. Studies have shown increased blood levels of thyroid antibodies occurring shortly after the administration of multiple-component vaccines. These antibodies are likely produced in response to contaminants from fetal calf serum commonly used to make canine vaccines. It is thought that these anti-bovine antibodies to thyroglobulin and fibronectin proteins then cross-react with a dog's own proteins, resulting in autoantibody production."

"Several studies have shown that the increased amounts of iodine salts in commercial dog foods contribute to the development of autoimmune hypothyroidism in canines, similar to the increased incidence of autoimmune thyroid disease in humans caused by iodine subsidization programs. A natural diet of cooked lamb, chicken, rice, and vegetables has been found to reduce the risk of canine hypothyroidism associated with commercial diets. Over time, some dogs may self-regulate and no longer need replacement hormone although most dogs with canine hypothyroidism will require lifelong thyroid replacement hormone."

Charlie is not suffering, and he will not suffer at our hands, if we had thought he was I would have advised his previous owner to go ahead with euthanasia, which she was considering before speaking with us.

Charlie was vaccinated in December and was in a horrendous condition (vets description) the following month despite being on steroids. Hence the reason for Charlie's complete detox, raw diet, followed by a full blood panel and titre test, which should offer our vet a more or less clean slate for testing and would appear to us at the moment to be a sensible way forward.

renate
20th February 2011, 04:19 PM
i am glad to har that charlie is on the mend! he'll come round, i am sure of that.
might i suggest you to consider giving him a 'treatment' of Digest Boost form the company Peak Performance, irish, i think.
here link to their hp, so you can make inquiries, if you wish.

http://peak.ie/

it was recommend to my by our chirpractor when frida was having a bad spell, to boost her digestive system and help her liver cope with various waste products.
i can really recommend it.

all the best to the little guy :)

ByFloSin
20th February 2011, 06:45 PM
My cavalier went through months of eye problems but my vet insisted he did not have dry eye because his schirmer test was OK. Eventually I insisted he was referred to an ophthalmologist when he developed severe ulcers. The ophthalmologist knew immediately he had dry eye although his worst affected eye was so damaged it was producing excess amounts of tears and the schirmer test in this eye was over 20. He ended up having to have an emergency corneal graft which is extremely expensive. Please bear in mind what Flo has said about her Holly Poppet.

Your experience ties in with mine Jane. I watch Holly Ps Schirmer Tests like a hawk. Over 21 would send me back to the Opthalmologist for another work-up.

3 weeks ago the last Schirmer was done, which was very slightly down at 18, which my GP vet was happy with. My instinct was to watch her very carefully for signs of pain or green discharge, but there was nothing. Then last week she woke me early in the morning, screeching with pain and one side of her face saturated with clear liquid ? tears. I rushed her to the vet, where the opthalmoscope showed up a corneal ulcer covering most of the surface of the eye and looking ready to burst. Round the clock administration of medication has returned her eye to normal, but what that poor little thing has gone through is truly awful.

Dry Eye, even without Curly Coat, is an absolutely horrible disease and I live in fear of yet another dog being misdiagnosed until it is too late.

Fifer
21st February 2011, 06:43 AM
i am glad to har that charlie is on the mend! he'll come round, i am sure of that.
might i suggest you to consider giving him a 'treatment' of Digest Boost form the company Peak Performance, irish, i think.
here link to their hp, so you can make inquiries, if you wish.

http://peak.ie/

it was recommend to my by our chirpractor when frida was having a bad spell, to boost her digestive system and help her liver cope with various waste products.
i can really recommend it.

all the best to the little guy :)

Thank you for that, I'll check it out! :biggrin:

mommytoClaire
22nd February 2011, 01:24 AM
What a dear he is. Saying a praying for dear little Charlie! I am SURE he's worth all the work.

Cindy and Claire

Fifer
22nd February 2011, 09:13 AM
What a dear he is. Saying a praying for dear little Charlie! I am SURE he's worth all the work.

Cindy and Claire

They are all worth the work :dogwlk: nothing gives me more pleasure than to see a happy, healthy and well balanced dog go off to it's new home (even if I am wiping tears from my eyes!).

As for Charlie, well I have to say that Sandy reports no further scratching or rubbing for the last 2 days (big plus there). His skin must have been soooooooooo itchy and uncomfortable. :( He's no longer licking his feet either, so his buster collar is a thing of the past.

Even better, Sandy tells me his energy levels are getting better, he's sleeping normally now and is very active and on the go all day, lots of 'puppy' behaviour evident yesterday, ragging his toys and generally being a mischievous cavalier! :jmp: :*nana:

Karlin
22nd February 2011, 12:17 PM
As this is a discussion of an individual dog and health/diet issues rather than an active rescue-related listing for a dog in need, I am moving the thread over to the health/diet section to keep the focus in Breed Rescue on dogs that need homes, foster or transport. :thmbsup:

Charlifarley
22nd February 2011, 12:25 PM
Even better, Sandy tells me his energy levels are getting better, he's sleeping normally now and is very active and on the go all day, lots of 'puppy' behaviour evident yesterday, ragging his toys and generally being a mischievous cavalier! :jmp: :*nana:
That's fantastic to hear, at last he's enjoying life again. :rah:

James
22nd February 2011, 01:40 PM
Its so good to hear that he has improved, having had an "itchy" Cavalier in the past I'm very aware of how uncomfortable, miserable and unhappy they can be.

renate
23rd February 2011, 07:17 PM
how good to hear that he is getting better!

i came to think of another harmless remedy to help the liver cope with toxines and waste products (og which charlie probably has lots.. ), dandylion tea.
there are not many dandylions around now, but dried ones can probably be bought.:)

Fifer
26th February 2011, 12:06 PM
Pupdate:
Beginning Week 3, Charley is feeling and looking much better, he's sleeping quite a bit but when he's up and about it's like he's reliving his puppyhood, doing everything you'd expect a 12 week old pup to be doing, getting up to mischief, pinching stuff and running off with it and teasing me to try and come and get it off him. He's a fabulous little guy and he's loving his raw food, he spins around and around as I take his dinners to his crate for him to eat and leaps so high to try and get it out of mid air along the way :jmp: I'm sure he'll learn some manners as time goes by but for now it's lovely to see him enjoying life again instead of living in a miserable itch/scratch situation 24 hours a day.
So to the latest update pics:

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley3003.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley3004.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley3005.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley3009.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley3010.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/Charley3002.jpg

I think you'll all agree he's coming on a treat. We're not looking at some overnight fix here, it's going to take the best part of 6 months to get this fella back to anything like he should be in both coat and health but it'll take as long as it takes.

Happy with his progress so far then boss :grin:

My response:

:grin: I'll "boss" you!! Cheeky fing! :grin:

Legs are definitely growing more healthy coat which is wonderful, they look almost normal. There's some improvement to head, (do I see new healthy downy fur on the previously completely bald patch on his back??) and I think you are going to lose all that obviously 'dead' hair on his back! Is there any signs of growth under the dead coat?

Right do I have to do the techie bit?? Ok

We have been waiting for this, a "healing crisis" (or for the most techie minded a Herxheimer Reaction) sounds a bit daft doesn't it? We didn't know what form it would take but it is crucial to have this reaction and to know that this is the beginning of the immune system recovery. They usually occur at each step of recovery and Charlie will have several before he's 'mended'. The first occurred this week and saw Charlie with a total nose dive; gunky eyes and ears literally overnight. :( Poor Sandy she thought something had gone wrong! :grin: The healing crisis lasted just two days (they can last up to two to three weeks) and cleared naturally by just wiping the eyes and ears with natural products.

To elimate toxins etc from the body two things (other than plenty of rest, quality food, clean water and exercise) are essential. The organs ie liver, kidneys and bowels have to work efficiently; and the immune system has to recognise and begin to fight back against the invading organism or parasite. Why? Because as the bacteria and parasites die they break down and are absorbed by the host as another toxin. The method of elimination is via kidneys (pee) bowels (poop) AND most importantly (as in Charlie's case) the mucous membranes of the ears and eyes too.

That journey is just beginning, at least we now have had the first reaction, there will be more. As it was explained to us, it's like peeling away the brown layers of dead skin off an onion till you get to the onion itself.

http://www.dog-nutrition-naturally.com/herxheimer-reaction.html

sarahso
26th February 2011, 11:42 PM
what a total sweetheart!

so glad you decided to give him a chance, he looks like he is doing so so well!

well done.. you keep making progress Charlie, you are a little dot!
x

Jasper and Holly
27th February 2011, 03:32 AM
What a wonderful person you are. I'm so glad Charley found you. What a difference you have made in such a short time. If only the world was full of people like you.

Fifer
2nd March 2011, 07:09 PM
Quick update:
Charlie had his vet appointment today, the vet was very pleased with him overall, he thought he would have been in much worse condition. He was surprised at the coat growth in 2 weeks just from a detox and the Dermacton.

He is amazed that no blood work-up had been done on him previously and agreed that the meds have been masking the real problem, which we all agree points to thyroid problems.

So Charlie (with a fairly clean and detox'd system) had blood taken today for T4/T3 function, eyes tested (one eye has dry eye for which he has Viscotears to see if it improves). This vet however, would NOT have vaccinated a dog in such a condition. He thinks Charlie is amazing considering all he has been through, just such a lively, cheeky, happy wee lad! :luv:

Please keep your fingers crossed for Charlie's blood work results - this wee guy needs every good luck thought you can send his way. :xfngr:

James
2nd March 2011, 08:11 PM
I have been looking every day for updates on him, its good to hear that he is still on the mend and I hope that the underlying cause is simple and straightforward to treat. As for the previous vet immunising him when he was ill, it comes as no surprise as I believe many of them are just out to fleece people out of their money regardless of the animals welfare, that is my previous experience anyway.

Margaret C
2nd March 2011, 11:54 PM
Please keep your fingers crossed for Charlie's blood work results - this wee guy needs every good luck thought you can send his way. :xfngr:


Everything here crossed for Charlie

Tania
2nd March 2011, 11:59 PM
Sending you lots of hugs and all paws are crossed here :hug:

Wagtails
3rd March 2011, 06:06 PM
and here! Charlie is obviously such a brave little soldier :luv:

merello
3rd March 2011, 06:41 PM
:xfngr: for Charlie from our lot Eileen and thanks for giving this special wee fella a chance.

Fifer
6th March 2011, 03:41 PM
We're still waiting the blood panel results but here's the photo update from Sandy

Look at the little Bobby Dazzler today :rah: He's feeling full of himself and has been really mischievious of late!
We're waiting for the results of a T3, T4 panel to come back which should be here by the end of the week.

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/charlie4022.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/charlie4021.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/charlie4007.jpg

We've had one really bad day where Charley didn't want to face the world or eat anything either but we didn't panic, he just needed time to rest up and go without food so he could help himself get better. No one was going to force feed him so we just let him ride it out and about 36 hours later he was up for some dinner and hasn't looked back since. We would have been kidding ourselves if we thought we wouldn't have a hiccup somewhere along the line and we know there's still a long road ahead for the little man and he's still going to get good days and bad days until he's got a good immune function again but I hope you'll all agree that he's definitely looking better :thmbsup: He's got some decent hair growth returning along his back, his paws and legs are almost back to normal and his little bonce is fluffing up nicely :luv:

merello
6th March 2011, 05:20 PM
Eileen, what's been achieved with Charlie in such a short time is amazing. He looks to be a right wee character. He's got such a sweet face:lotsaluv:Please continue to keep us posted.

Wagtails
6th March 2011, 06:19 PM
Can't believe the transformation, Eileen. Just keep on keeping on with this little chap and let's hope for good veterinary news. Still holding him in our daily thoughts http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv97/Cavviewagtails/Animations/Heartblowingpoog.gif

Jasper and Holly
7th March 2011, 10:44 PM
You have done an amazing job. Fingers crossed for Charlie. Good on ya

Ddavis
8th March 2011, 05:58 AM
Wow, I can't believe the transformation .... looks nothing like the same dog in the first set of photographs.

What a fantastic job you are doing Eileen ... well done!

BrooklynMom
8th March 2011, 08:39 AM
I just read through this whole thread for the first time....wow, oh wow. What an angle you are and what a fighter Charlie is. I am stunned and amazed by peoples selflessness and dogs can teach us a thing or two about living in the moment and being humble.

Good on you, just amazing. :hug:

Fifer
8th March 2011, 03:58 PM
It's not me it's Sandy, she's just so dedicated to helping wee Charlie get well.

Fifer
9th March 2011, 09:46 AM
FANTASTIC NEWS! This morning in my inbox this email ........

Hi Eileen

Charley's T3, T4 results have all come back perfectly normal and well within range. CBC shows a slightly elevated WBC which is to be expected as he's still fighting infection. Good and bad news really, I think we are just going to have to carry on cleaning him out, vet would like to see him in about 3 weeks time to see how his hair regrowth is coming along and check his eyes again and suggests we give him some evening primrose oil which will help his skin :-) So we got a healthyish dog underneath all this crap which is good for us cos to me it means a straightforward detox and he's made a massive step up in the 25 days he's been here already, so lets hope we get no set backs and in 3 weeks time he's a healthier and happier boy than he is now :-)

Sandy x

Charlifarley
9th March 2011, 09:49 AM
so lets hope we get no set backs and in 3 weeks time he's a healthier and happier boy than he is now :-)

Sandy x
Fantastic news, go on Charley, we know you can do it :jmp:

murphy's mum
9th March 2011, 07:19 PM
Oh! Fantastic news, I'm so happy to read how well he's coming on :D

Jasper and Holly
10th March 2011, 03:58 AM
Go Charlie:jump: That's great news I am happy for you.

Ddavis
10th March 2011, 07:19 AM
Way to go Charlie ... keep doing what your foster mom says and you will be right as rain soon with a long shiny coat!

Well done to all involved in Charlies recovery! :lotsaluv:

Wagtails
10th March 2011, 09:19 PM
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv97/Cavviewagtails/Animations/Bouncingpoog.gif http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv97/Cavviewagtails/Animations/Cheerleaderpoogs.gif http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv97/Cavviewagtails/Animations/Clappypooglarge.gif

Brian M
11th March 2011, 09:25 AM
Hi

What wonderful news and what a superb job you are doing ,come on CHARLIE:):):)

Fifer
20th March 2011, 12:49 PM
Update on Charlie and the best news - he is staying in Devon with Sandy forever!

Latest pics of Charley attached, it looks like it's one final push as the toxins move to his little face, he looks a bit like an old man at the moment but this is where the problems first started and apparently this is where it will all end, so I think we are almost there. In himself he's feeling right chipper and I think I've sealed his fate as I ordered a new Indigo Collar Tag with our info on for his collar, think that says it all don't you :thmbsup:
I have given his previous owner the chance to have him back but she decided he would be happier in Devon with us and I wasn't going to argue.

Those very sore paws are no more
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/sunday20005.jpg

Lovely glistening coat over his back now too :D
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/sunday20003.jpg

The rat tail will soon be a thing of the past cl*p
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/sunday20013.jpg

Looking like an old man but feeling and acting like a teenager :D
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b434/gundogs44/sunday20009.jpg

So it's taken just 37 days to almost rid Charley of over 2 years of poisons and drugs which no doubt would have killed him if it had been allowed to continue and this little chap was going to be pts as no one was prepared to continue paying out for conventional veterinary treatment because of the costs involved. What did it cost us, in total, less than 60 for essential blood work from my vet who never even charged a consult fee, some eye ointment, a few pounds for some natural remedies, good wishes and the kindness of so many people of which we are eternally grateful for, oh and I mustn't forget a very important ingredient....a raw diet! Give him another month and that little face should be good as new :D
Please see earlier pics and the state he was in when he arrived :yikes
Three cheers for Charley Farley I say! :D :pi*no:

Sandy & Charley x

MadPip
20th March 2011, 01:07 PM
:wggle::wggle::wggle::wggle:

What a lovely (almost) ending to this story. Why almost? Well, we will definitely need to see his face when that has resolved like the rest of him so we can truly appreciate what a handsome chap he is.:luv:

Fifer
20th March 2011, 01:56 PM
:wggle::wggle::wggle::wggle:

What a lovely (almost) ending to this story. Why almost? Well, we will definitely need to see his face when that has resolved like the rest of him so we can truly appreciate what a handsome chap he is.:luv:

I promise lots of pics, we were told it would take 6 months of detox but we now think it will be around 3. I for one can't wait to see him in full coat and know he's had a clear skin scrape and got the all clear from the vet! :luv:

merello
20th March 2011, 02:03 PM
Charlie is looking great Eileen, we're so pleased he has been given this chance. Sometimes it pays to "think outside the box" in terms of treatment.

We hope he continues to thrive in Sandy's care. Good on her for all the love and care she has given him and I'm sure he'll do well in his forever home. He is so adoreable:lotsaluv: and we look forward to more photos of his progress,

renate
20th March 2011, 02:38 PM
how wonderful! :D thank you for sharing his story, and for the pictures.
it is quite amazing so much has changed in this little man over such a relatively short period of time.

i am looking forward to new pictures... :)

Wagtails
20th March 2011, 06:47 PM
This news has made my day - no, my whole month!!:jump:

Can't wait to see the next batch of photos. Meanwhile, keep battling on Charlie and enjoy a whole new world out there with your lovely new mum

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv97/Cavviewagtails/Animations/Butterfly13.gif

Jasper and Holly
21st March 2011, 01:44 AM
Great news and well done. What a great job you have done.:thmbsup:cl*p

James
21st March 2011, 06:12 PM
Excellent news, it certainly makes you think about conventional veterinary medicine, take away the pills and poisons and doggie heal thyself!

Ddavis
23rd March 2011, 07:15 AM
It's so heart warming to keep seeing these updates!

Glad you have decided to keep Charlie!!!

Charlifarley
23rd March 2011, 08:12 PM
Thats a win win situation for Charley. Its fantastic to see how well he is doing and I'm thrilled that he will be staying put with Sandy. She has worked wonders with him - he looks so much better and so much happier.

GraciesMom
24th March 2011, 12:01 PM
That's all I can say! Job well done! Another hero on the board.
If I decide to move to raw diet for Gracie, who has lower bowel issues, I sure would love to get your advice on how to move forward with that. You have certainly become an expert in natural diet and remedies.

Fifer
24th March 2011, 02:36 PM
Not me it's Sandy, she's the BARF "expert" she even has a diet sheet for beginners :lol:

Brian M
24th March 2011, 09:04 PM
Hello Deb

There are a few of us that feed raw ,my four girls have been on a raw diet for over 12 months .Tea tonight was chicken liver and assorted veggie and lots of other goodies.

Fifer
27th March 2011, 12:57 PM
Charlie's face is now beginning to improve, he had 3 skin scrapes yesterday and we are awaiting the results. The vet was most impressed by his improving condition and although his face still looks very sore in places he is sure "the treatment" is working, so sure in fact he even gave Sandy some Manuka Honey to spread on a crack in the skin of his wee face. :badgrin:

Sandy has been raw feeding her pack (10 dogs now, various breeds/types - yikes!) for over 8 years, she has a wealth of experience and lots of notes to fall back on. She always has time for people who are interested in starting feeding in a more natural way. I started 3 or 4 years ago after discussing Billy Bracken the coeliac (celiac) cocker's problems with her.

James
28th March 2011, 01:29 PM
I'm so glad for him, I'm also curious about feeding raw but as I am an almost vegetarian (I personally just don't like meat) I do not know if I could do it as I am not used to handling raw meat although I used to fish many years ago and had no problems gutting/cleaning them.

Fifer
29th March 2011, 01:31 PM
Best news!! No demodex, dead or alive, on the skin scrapes!

His face is much improved BUT as usual as one thing improves another erupts, this time his ear which has had another eruption of gunge just on the outer ear. This has been bathed and dusted with Thornits so we'll see how it goes. Clearly his immune system is still not up to full strength.

@ James
It is difficult to feed raw if your morals don't approve, but you could buy frozen from PAH which means you don't have to handle any raw meat.