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Zumie05
15th March 2011, 09:44 PM
Ok, I got a video sample of Coco's random growling/barking at NOTHING.

Here she was just chewing on a bone and I was on my computer next to her. Suddenly she was growling and barking. I got my camera out right at the end of it. I do not think she was guarding her bone, anyone can take anything from her, and she will even bring things to me and ask to come up on the bed or couch to chew on stuff in my lap. Plus she is a picky eater, and doesn't care if our cat tries to steal things from her. It seems to me like she is scared of something, but I can assure you, while this episode happened, there were no strange noises or anything.

I am thinking I should show this video to my vet. Any other thoughts on this behavior?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbVkkgfdg2w

Sorry about the loud noises I made with the camera..and also my dirty carpet. My cat sheds little white balls all over that and I have to vacuum it nearly every day!

Jasper and Holly
15th March 2011, 10:25 PM
WOW that's amazing I see she is barking at NOTHING! LOL

egoebelbecker
16th March 2011, 01:35 AM
Are you sure there's nothing else going on in the background? Water heater? Furnace? Toilet? Running water? It's possible that you have habituated to something that she hasn't.

I agree, it doen't look like guarding at all.

Jasper and Holly
16th March 2011, 02:34 AM
Am I missing something here! I was being sarcastic before as there was no video to view?

Reptigirl
16th March 2011, 03:53 AM
WOW, I'm sure there is some other explanation but that reminded me so much of how Flash used to be. Except it eventually progressed to where he would be much louder and stronger. It sometimes last for 30 minutes or more. It is hard to tell from the video but in the beginning the expression on her face reminded me of how Flash used to do that. It seems like she is looking around worried and maybe a little nervous. I understand Flash is a vary rare case.. but WOW that brought back some memories of how it started. I could always tell Flash was bothered because of his sudden lack of "happiness" he tail would not be wagging. Even when he barks at a noise, person or dog his tail is wagging. When he would have these growing episodes he would lower his head and his "happiness" would be gone for a moment. At times he would even tuck his tail between his legs....

I have to ask. Does she do anything else odd. Scratching at her neck? Pawing at her head? Licking her paws a lot? Chasing her tail? Biting at her hind quarters? Leg twitch? Squinting her eyes due to light? Excessive rolling on the floor while rubbing her head? I'm sure I could be totally wrong. I have seen your other posts and didn't think too much about it until seeing that video.

I'm ASSUMING Flash would do it because of unknown pains due to his sever CM. As long as he is on medication it has gone away (unless he is overall just having a really bad day and his symptoms are flaring up. Then he sometimes still does it.) Maybe she is experiencing pain somewhere in her body?

Zumie05
16th March 2011, 05:42 AM
WOW, I'm sure there is some other explanation but that reminded me so much of how Flash used to be. Except it eventually progressed to where he would be much louder and stronger. It sometimes last for 30 minutes or more. It is hard to tell from the video but in the beginning the expression on her face reminded me of how Flash used to do that. It seems like she is looking around worried and maybe a little nervous. I understand Flash is a vary rare case.. but WOW that brought back some memories of how it started. I could always tell Flash was bothered because of his sudden lack of "happiness" he tail would not be wagging. Even when he barks at a noise, person or dog his tail is wagging. When he would have these growing episodes he would lower his head and his "happiness" would be gone for a moment. At times he would even tuck his tail between his legs....

I have to ask. Does she do anything else odd. Scratching at her neck? Pawing at her head? Licking her paws a lot? Chasing her tail? Biting at her hind quarters? Leg twitch? Squinting her eyes due to light? Excessive rolling on the floor while rubbing her head? I'm sure I could be totally wrong. I have seen your other posts and didn't think too much about it until seeing that video.

I'm ASSUMING Flash would do it because of unknown pains due to his sever CM. As long as he is on medication it has gone away (unless he is overall just having a really bad day and his symptoms are flaring up. Then he sometimes still does it.) Maybe she is experiencing pain somewhere in her body?

I know I am worried too! As a young puppy, yes she scratched at her neck a lot, but has stopped for a long time. I attribute that to learning about wearing a collar. In the morning she likes to rub her face with her paws. I attribute that to having gunk in her eyes, and I clean it out and she stops. After a bath she likes rubbing her face in the floor. No she is not sensitive to light. YES she does sometimes get a leg twitch, but it is more of a kick than a twitch. I watched the video of Flash's leg twitch and it is not like that. It happens when she is laying down, but her rear leg will actually kick out backwards a few times. And no she doesn't chase her tail or excessively lick at her paws.

BUT, another quirk she has is that out of nowhere she jumps and scratches but then stops, and licks herself. I thought it was due to her anal glands, had them emptied, the behavior continued, and 3 days ago I had her urine tested and it was positive for a UTI plus there was crystals present in the urine....so I attribute that behavior for this reason, but we will see if it gets better as she is on her antibiotics longer.

As far as other background noises, no there wasnt a toilet flushing or anything. Usually if she barks at a strange noise, she isn't lowering her head like that and darting her eyes around. She looks nervous when she has these episodes...like she is hallucinating? I am not sure if it is pain, but it could be. She is not sensitive to me touching her anywhere, I can handle her head and neck, pick her up, everything is no problem

Keep the questions coming, as I am still looking for any other possibilities:huh:

Zumie05
16th March 2011, 05:47 AM
Am I missing something here! I was being sarcastic before as there was no video to view?

Here is the link just in case it still isn't working in my original post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbVkkgfdg2w

One other thing I noticed when watching the video again, is that part of the time she is looking me straight in the eye. :huh:

Reptigirl
16th March 2011, 06:24 AM
One other thing I noticed when watching the video again, is that part of the time she is looking me straight in the eye. :huh:


Flash always watches me very intently often straight in the eyes. I honesty don't understand it and I have NEVER had a dog do it before but I have found it is usually because he needs something.

Ex:

Sometimes he comes to me if he is not feeling well and will just stare at me with his head hung lower and his eyes squinty. It's like he needs a quiet dark place to go and can't find one. Once I make a dark place he will go lay down there and stay for a while.

Sometimes it's because he needs other things. If he needs to go outside he will stare at me until I acknowledge him and then run to the door. Or if he needs food or water he will stare at me until I look up at him and then he will run to the water or food bowl.

Finally, If he is in trouble for doing something and My boyfriend or I try and scold him (not yelling just a firm tone) he will turn to face us , sit and look RIGHT at our eyes. To this day he still will not look away like my other dogs if someone corrects him. (At first I thought he was challenging me but I quickly realized he was looking for direction as to what to do next.) I think he does it because of all the early training I did with him. He was always VERY focused on me and learned right away he needed to watch me for commands.

I can tell the differance in the way he stares at me. If his ears are hung back and low he is either in pain or in trouble (usually for something small and minor so its just firm tone. Don't think I'm yelling at him. I think Flash would have a heart attack if I yelled at him. He is very sensitive). If his ears are up in what I call the "cute cavalier look" (You could almost draw a straight line across the top of his head from ear to ear.) then he is happy and wants something like a walk, a toy, a treat, water...etc.


Not sure if any of this really helps but it's what I have noticed with Flash. Hope it's not confusing.

Furrfoot
18th March 2011, 04:38 AM
It kinda looks like discomfort to me, I'm sorry to say :( . Could it be from the UTI and crystals? If her bladder is inflamed, then it may hurt her periodically (I know that when I get one, I get a pain/ache that comes and goes), especially since I read in another thread that she is coming into season. There's going to be some changes (inside and out) that may be putting pressure on her already achey bladder and urethra. Just a thought.

Oh, and Rose was fairly even tempered during her first heat, maybe a little grumpier, but our boxer, who was normal very laid back and sweet, defering to the cats even, took to having hamburger cravings that were enough that she would growl at the cats and argue/have shove matches with them for the forgotten dinner leftovers on the table :P . Still sweet to us, but the cats had better watch out, haha. So maybe you have a "perfect storm", per se, of all 3? :*gh: I hope she's feeling much better soon!

Zumie05
18th March 2011, 06:42 AM
I scheduled her an appointment at the neurologist just in case...but I am getting highly suspicious that her strange behavior lately is linked to A) UTI/crystals and B) Coming into heat.

I think I will still go to the appointment and get a professional opinion to play it safe. At the very least maybe she can get some pain killers?

Furrfoot
18th March 2011, 08:03 PM
I was trying to remember what the video reminded me of...it was so familiar...but why it reminded me of discomfort in an animal was eluding me...last night I remembered! It reminded me of some first time animal "mommies" when they are in the late stages of pregnancy/going into labor! (Horses, dogs, cats, you name it, lol). So, hopefully, it is just the heat/uti ;) and you get a clean report from the neurologist! :)

Karlin
20th March 2011, 07:40 PM
I can see why you are wondering about this -- it is very odd, not at all attention-seeking or as if she is responding to something, so I see what you mean about it not really being as if she wants to play or anything like that. Not like guarding either. She looks worried and a bit distressed and uncomfortable and confused -- like she can't quite figure out what is going on -- the eye rolling and ducking away and looking around.

I'd definitely show this to a neurologist and see what they think, and get a clinical exam, and see what they think. To be honest I wouldn't think it linked to a UTI or being in heat if t has been happening for a while -- heat is a very constrained time period. The jumping up as if startled, scratching then licking would again make me want to talk to a neurologist.

Davecav
20th March 2011, 08:26 PM
It is odd behaviour. I just do wonder if she can hear something that is beyond human hearing.

We once had a wasps nest under the house, and both our dogs behaved odly, listening a low growling at what we couldn't hear. This went on for over a week, then I put my head down on the floorboards and could hear the droning of the insects, it sounded rather sinister.
We then got the council out to get rid of the nest.

waldor
20th March 2011, 09:37 PM
I think I will still go to the appointment and get a professional opinion to play it safe.

I would keep the appointment, just to get some answers and hopefully peace of mind. I hope Coco will be okay.

Zumie05
21st March 2011, 05:57 AM
Thanks for the insight everyone. Yes I will still go to my appointment with the neurologist. Yikes $125 just for the office visit! Aww well Coco is worth it.

However, her episodes seem to be decreasing as of lately which makes me feel even more so that this was related to her body changing. In fact, she seems to be super cuddly and more affectionate than ever now?!? She still will bark at her regular things, like a scary man on tv haha, but since I took that video her nervous barking and growling has only happened two other times, with yesterday and today 0 incidents.

We will see what the vet thinks. I go in this Wednesday and will keep you all posted.

Reptigirl
21st March 2011, 04:20 PM
Does Coco have insurance? Might be something to look into. It has saved us thousands.

Furrfoot
21st March 2011, 08:36 PM
She's getting better because you made the doctor appointment- just like kids, haha ;) . I hope everything comes back great ! :)

GraciesMom
22nd March 2011, 12:04 AM
They can sometimes sense things that we can't, such as mice under the house or insects in the walls, people walking outside, minor tremors, wind, etc.
Gracie was growling in parts of our kitchen over several days....and we had no idea why. Two days later, evidence of a mouse visit in that area. Once we trapped it, no more growling.:p

I do hope she is okay healthwise and good to make sure. I think it is still worth going to a vet about it.

mommytoClaire
22nd March 2011, 12:22 AM
I can see your concern. I would certainly take the video for the Doc to see. Can't hurt to rule out stuff.

Let us know the results on Wednesday.

Zumie05
22nd March 2011, 01:51 AM
Bittersweet news. Tomorrow and wednesday I am going to visit a venue for my wedding (yay we finally are going to get married!) so I have had to push Coco's appointment to next week.

I feel it is ok to wait a bit longer, as she is still active and happy. I still want to show them that video to see what they think. Sorry about the delay!

Also, reading up on pet insurance, most places' benefits don't kick in until 14 days after. If I signed up now, would it be a better idea to have my appointment scheduled when my coverage begins?

Jasper and Holly
22nd March 2011, 05:37 AM
Pet insurance will not cover a preexisting condition. So maybe when you join you should wait until it kicks in. That way there's no condition on record. As long as you don't think Coco is suffering in any way. Pet insurance is definitely the way to go, not that I have used mine yet, I hope I never will have to. I have Pet Plan they cover your dog for life and my two are covered for up to $14,000 a year each for accident and injury. It costs me $40.99 a month for each dog. That's Australian. I don't know what your's would be. Not a lot of companies cover for life that's why I chose Pet.

Zumie05
22nd March 2011, 06:38 AM
Pet insurance will not cover a preexisting condition. So maybe when you join you should wait until it kicks in. That way there's no condition on record. As long as you don't think Coco is suffering in any way. Pet insurance is definitely the way to go, not that I have used mine yet, I hope I never will have to. I have Pet Plan they cover your dog for life and my two are covered for up to $14,000 a year each for accident and injury. It costs me $40.99 a month for each dog. That's Australian. I don't know what your's would be. Not a lot of companies cover for life that's why I chose Pet.

I just signed up with Pet Plan, I was amazed they began coverage next day. That means I can keep Coco's appointment for next week :) Thanks for the tip, insurance was something I was looking into but hadn't found one I liked, this one by far beat all the others I read about!

The Rouge Princess
23rd March 2011, 09:27 PM
Zumie, was it today your appointment with Coco? If not fingers crossed for the appointment and hope you get to the bottom of it soon :)

I've watched the video a few times and on first viewing it looks as though it's a mix of something she can hear/see/and is warning off - all at once :confused:

Though Scarlett is my first Cavalier, I've been around dogs for most of my life but I suppose it still could be said that I don't have a wealth of knowledge and experience in behaviour of dogs.I've gained what I know through ownership,reading/research,hobbie reading etc.So it's a guess, it is puzzling, however.

Keep us updated :flwr:

The Rouge Princess
23rd March 2011, 09:41 PM
Through a friend I was told about AFI or Animal Friends Insurance.They're a non-profit organisation who work with Charities, one being the protection of Silver Backed Gorillas.They pay out immediately to your Vet and their customer services have being noted as excellent.I did a quote online and was impressed but was worried I get "the hard sell" from someone at other end but to no avail.The woman was very helpful in helping with my queries and made no attempt to steer me towards a particular package.When asked in a round about sort away, why she wasn't, she said that AFI are happy to answer customer queries but it is then the customer's choice in deciding which one is most suitable for them.I was impressed! :biggrin: Plus, I've had no increase in my monthly payment.AFI might be worth a look?

ETA - Just before going ahead with AFI, I was still suspicious so I asked if there were any "loopholes" when it came to breed specific aliments,diseases and there aren't.I was told that as long as there was no history of such condition it was fine.Also what I found different to other insurers was that there was no question about Pedigree as I know Tesco for instance do ask?? Hmmm.

I've just seen you're in USA icon_nwunsure wondering if they're specifically UK based.Not sure if it's against the rules to post a link to their website?

Zumie05
24th March 2011, 08:18 PM
Zumie, was it today your appointment with Coco? If not fingers crossed for the appointment and hope you get to the bottom of it soon :)

I've watched the video a few times and on first viewing it looks as though it's a mix of something she can hear/see/and is warning off - all at once :confused:

Though Scarlett is my first Cavalier, I've been around dogs for most of my life but I suppose it still could be said that I don't have a wealth of knowledge and experience in behaviour of dogs.I've gained what I know through ownership,reading/research,hobbie reading etc.So it's a guess, it is puzzling, however.

Keep us updated :flwr:

We rescheduled to Tuesday the 29th - I signed up for insurance in the mean time. My schedule is just CRAZY right now because I am dealing with planning my wedding at the same time. Will update!!!

Zumie05
29th March 2011, 10:09 PM
I posted our vet visit in the MVD and SM forum

Pat
30th March 2011, 09:16 PM
I just signed up with Pet Plan, I was amazed they began coverage next day. That means I can keep Coco's appointment for next week :) Thanks for the tip, insurance was something I was looking into but hadn't found one I liked, this one by far beat all the others I read about!

I just read this thread. Coverage with PetPlan begins for accidents only after 24 hours but for illnesses, there is a two week waiting period. I carefully checked this when I re-enrolled Tucker about a month before his MRI. Here is a cut and paste from PetPlan website:

Is there a waiting period before I can use my Petplan insurance?
There is a fourteen (14) day waiting period after the effective date of the policy during which we will not cover any illness of your pet. The waiting period will not apply to any renewal of this policy if continuous coverage is maintained. Coverage for injury of your pet will begin twenty four (24) hours after the effective date of the policy. To start a quote click here.

Pat

Zumie05
30th March 2011, 09:32 PM
I just read this thread. Coverage with PetPlan begins for accidents only after 24 hours but for illnesses, there is a two week waiting period. I carefully checked this when I re-enrolled Tucker about a month before his MRI. Here is a cut and paste from PetPlan website:

Is there a waiting period before I can use my Petplan insurance?
There is a fourteen (14) day waiting period after the effective date of the policy during which we will not cover any illness of your pet. The waiting period will not apply to any renewal of this policy if continuous coverage is maintained. Coverage for injury of your pet will begin twenty four (24) hours after the effective date of the policy. To start a quote click here.

Pat

Hmm so I am guessing my visit to the Neurologist will not count as an injury. Oh well. I at least hope it will cover an MRI if we do that in the future.
Oh my gosh. Well we have not done an MRI yet, just blood work to check for a metabolic condition.

I called them and they said that it this visit will not be covered. BUT, if the blood work comes back normal, what this test was for will not be a "pre existing condition" so that is good. Fingers crossed everything is normal!