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Brian M
14th April 2011, 11:40 AM
Hi

Does anybody know how many pups are bred by the "show" breeders and how many they keep and therefore how many are sold on as pets . :confused:

And secondly what would they do if they had no pet owners to buy the unwanted .:confused:

Tania
14th April 2011, 12:15 PM
That is an interesting question! I don't have the answer to it though:?

Bet
14th April 2011, 12:20 PM
That is an interesting question! I don't have the answer to it though:?


I would think any-one who gets the Kennel Club's Breed Supplement for Our Cavalier Breed would be able to get an Answer to Brian's Question.

Bet

tuppenlil
14th April 2011, 01:00 PM
Brian

Some indication, but nobody could know for sure:

Over 2010 it is estimated that 23% of KC Registered CKCS puppies were bred by CKCS Club members - NOT ALL WHO EXHIBIT
That equals about 1900 puppies of the total of 8095 Registered with the UK KC

According to Grahames Results Book there were 636 DIFFERENT dogs placed at Championship shows in the year 2010.

So at a very rough guess (?) 200-300 registered puppies per year are shown with some success - an unknown number will be kept for breeding and as pets themselves, the rest presumably get sold at some point in time.

Maggie

anniemac
14th April 2011, 01:49 PM
First it depends on what are "show breeders" but I can speak about the little I know (whether I find out differently) but now. I think it would be impossible to see what the number is. I do know that breeders in the breed clubs (not AKC) usually have a registration that specifies to not breed. Rod may know more about this but from his website for suggestions to find breeders he said to check out http://cavalierhealth.org/breeders.htm whether those show or not I have no idea and would never try to figure that out. If you are asking in regards to health, in my opinion it would be the breed clubs to go to if I was looking for a puppy. He also mentions to check out the clubs for health volunteers, breed health chairman, and also the Health & Confirmation class so without these shows, I don't know where people would go. I don't know those that are in clubs that do not show.

I think pet buyers will see Champions lineage on websites that are misleading because they may have pictures of other cavaliers etc. and will not look if they are members of breed clubs so how that would change with demand if there were no show cavaliers? I don't know but in the USA without breed clubs, I don't know how breeders would find out about information in regards to health.

I know we have AKC registration which acts as a registration body, but says to go to the parent club for more information and does not guarantee health. So I think the actual breed clubs are what to look for. and if they did not have Champions would it change if people did not ask certain quetstions suggested. How they would make money without shows or would they exist, I don't know how? Since I have no idea on how many in the clubs show, I can not answer that question but it would be where I would start with if I wanted information on where to find a good breeder, etc.

Margaret C
14th April 2011, 02:35 PM
As Maggie writes it is impossible to put a definite figure on the number of pet cavaliers bred by breeders that show, but even within the show fraternity it is conceded that most puppies will be sold as companion dogs.
Many of the cavaliers that are kept for showing and breeding will eventually be rehomed to pet homes.

An article in this week's Dog World, on the Advisory Council on Dog Breeding reports:-

"The need to address welfare problems should be paramount, council members agreed, saying it was not acceptable to breed dogs who will then suffer. It was clear, members said, that breed clubs, breeders and society must become ‘more engaged’ in relation to these issues.

Part of the council’s role should be to encourage recognition among breeders that they are breeding pets, not breeding for showing, members said.

A minority of dogs, even from the breeders who are most successful in the showing world, end up in the show ring, and therefore the key objective should be the breeding of fit, healthy and well-socialised pets, it was agreed."

There is a growing feeling that there may be a need for a Companion Cavalier Club, embracing both pet owners and breeders that are trying to produce healthy pets.

If it was possible to register such a club with the Kennel Club, it could be a powerful voice for change.

I would be interested to know what forum members think about the idea?

Brian M
14th April 2011, 02:46 PM
Hi Margaret

Marvelous .:D

RodRussell
14th April 2011, 03:07 PM
Deleted as a duplicate.

RodRussell
14th April 2011, 03:08 PM
Does anybody know how many pups are bred by the "show" breeders and how many they keep and therefore how many are sold on as pets . ...

From my experience in the AKC, I've learned that it estimates that about 20% of its registrations come from "the fancy", meaning breeders who attempt to meet the breed standard. I would call them largely show breeders.

Also, it estimates that about 20% of litters produced by the fancy are kept to run on, and the rest are offered to pet buyers.

Tania
14th April 2011, 03:27 PM
There is a growing feeling that there may be a need for a Companion Cavalier Club, embracing both pet owners and breeders that are trying to produce healthy pets.



My feelings precisely !

RodRussell
14th April 2011, 04:14 PM
... There is a growing feeling that there may be a need for a Companion Cavalier Club, embracing both pet owners and breeders that are trying to produce healthy pets.

If it was possible to register such a club with the Kennel Club, it could be a powerful voice for change.

The CKCSC,USA is part way there already. Unlike AKC parent clubs, it allows pet owners to join as voting members, and the majority of its members are non-breeders. It has a Health & Conformation class at its shows, with minimum requirements for health testing in order to enter that class. I know of at least one cavalier that obtained its CKCSC,USA championship from that class.

If enough CKCSC,USA voting pet owners voted out the existing leadership and voted in board members and officers who pledged to emphasis the genetic health of the breed, a companion cavalier club could come to life.

anniemac
14th April 2011, 04:26 PM
The CKCSC,USA is part way there already. Unlike AKC parent clubs, it allows pet owners to join as voting members, and the majority of its members are non-breeders. It has a Health & Conformation class at its shows, with minimum requirements for health testing in order to enter that class. I know of at least one cavalier that obtained its CKCSC,USA championship from that class.

If enough CKCSC,USA voting pet owners voted out the existing leadership and voted in board members and officers who pledged to emphasis the genetic health of the breed, a companion cavalier club could come to life.

I agree rod but for some reason I thought you had to have a ckcsc usa pedigree to vote? However, I don't know about the uk. That is one reason I joined because I feel it is important to be involved whether to learn more or meet pet owners. I saw that they had a separate class.

There are fun days, health clinics and even the show in atlanta has a seman collection there. It would be nice to correspond the show in an area that has low cost scanning. I feel personally that I should learn more from several breeders. I may meet a variety of people and don't care to show, but I would definately like to learn more.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Spangly
14th April 2011, 06:21 PM
A Companian Cavalier Club ! What a great idea!!

Bet
14th April 2011, 06:37 PM
As Maggie writes it is impossible to put a definite figure on the number of pet cavaliers bred by breeders that show, but even within the show fraternity it is conceded that most puppies will be sold as companion dogs.
Many of the cavaliers that are kept for showing and breeding will eventually be rehomed to pet homes.

An article in this week's Dog World, on the Advisory Council on Dog Breeding reports:-

"The need to address welfare problems should be paramount, council members agreed, saying it was not acceptable to breed dogs who will then suffer. It was clear, members said, that breed clubs, breeders and society must become ‘more engaged’ in relation to these issues.

Part of the council’s role should be to encourage recognition among breeders that they are breeding pets, not breeding for showing, members said.

A minority of dogs, even from the breeders who are most successful in the showing world, end up in the show ring, and therefore the key objective should be the breeding of fit, healthy and well-socialised pets, it was agreed."

There is a growing feeling that there may be a need for a Companion Cavalier Club, embracing both pet owners and breeders that are trying to produce healthy pets.

If it was possible to register such a club with the Kennel Club, it could be a powerful voice for change.

I would be interested to know what forum members think about the idea?


SHOW BREEDERS PUPPIES ?


This would be a Great idea.

Tania, can I link this Post with saying what a Lovely Photo of You and your Legged Friends in the May Edition of DOGS TODAY.

Bet

Tania
14th April 2011, 07:02 PM
SHOW BREEDERS PUPPIES ?


This would be a Great idea.

Tania, can I link this Post with saying what a Lovely Photo of You and your Legged Friends in the May Edition of DOGS TODAY.

Bet

Thank you, I havn't seen it yet! :p

Kate H
14th April 2011, 08:23 PM
My friend who both breeds for health and shows her Cavaliers refuses to belong to any club - she doesn't see the point and doesn't want to get involved in the politics. I don't think she's the only one who thinks like this - so don't assume that puppies registered by non-club members don't get shown, or are the product of puppy farms.

I've belonged to the Cavalier Club for 20 years, mainly because as non-breeding, non-showing pet owners constitute the majority of Cavalier owners, I think they need to be represented (and I do enjoy the Year Book!).

Kate, Oliver and Aled

RodRussell
14th April 2011, 08:34 PM
I agree rod but for some reason I thought you had to have a ckcsc usa pedigree to vote? ...

At least one of your cavaliers needs to be registered with CKCSC,USA in order for you to be a voting member.

GraciesMom
15th April 2011, 03:10 PM
He often gives his retired show dogs away to "happy homes." I hope to be getting one of them this summer or fall. But he may decide to keep the dog longer because he is doing better in the shows now. He just won a small championship.

Wagtails
15th April 2011, 04:59 PM
There is a growing feeling that there may be a need for a Companion Cavalier Club, embracing both pet owners and breeders that are trying to produce healthy pets.

If it was possible to register such a club with the Kennel Club, it could be a powerful voice for change.

I would be interested to know what forum members think about the idea?


Count me in cl*p