View Full Version : May be going to get a second Cavalier very soon... weighing pros and cons
22nd April 2011, 10:24 PM
We have Gracie's digestive issues mostly resolved... treating her using natural options for IBS is working. She is on a homemade diet and supplements that work (except when hubby forgot to give her probiotics and fiber supplements while I was away for half a day....:bang:. He won't do that again...).
We had already decided that after she turned one, we wanted to start looking for a male Cavvie, but not a puppy. Maybe a malethat needed to be rehomed or a retired show dog. The goal was to have a male companion for Gracie...but we also know it is a good time for us to handle this as well. I have read Karlin's thread on this issue several times and talked to many people who have done this about pros and cons.
Gracie's breeder, who also is a judge and shows Cavs, had initially said he would have male just over 2 years old retiring early this fall, but has decided to keep showing him for much longer time and may keep him forever. So started looking for other options from reputable sources and, as expected, not much out there for weeks. But now another option has come up that we would have to act on quickly and making us a bit nervous.
Another breeder in our state who has been very helpful in advising me on Gracie's health issues warned me away from one dog we considered due to questionable breeding, but later put me in touch with a person about 7 hours away who breeds mostly show dogs. She currently has 3 champion males and this is one of those. He is 2.5 years old. She has 2 dogs that she thinks have more potential and has stopped showing the one we would get. She has a new litter coming in 2 weeks and has been told it may be tough delivery. She`also is`running out of room and said the dog deserves`a better situation where he can get more attention, Originally, she was suggesting that we come in late May or early June if interested....waiting after her puppies were born. Now her vet has convinced her that with a complicated delivery that she should go ahead`and let the male go now.
Soooooo.....se wants us to come in the next 6 days...and we are feeling pressured. There are major pros and cons involved, but just anxious that we have to decide so fast. She has offered all the medical tests results we want and full refund for up to a year if he does not work out. She never advertises online...does not even have a website. She uses one of the best known stud dogs who sired the one we would get. BUT.... 7 hours one way is a long way and the price is higher than I would have expected but includes neutering.
Mainly just venting that we have to decide so fast if this is the best decision... or risk the wait for a companion dog who is also good health but is not so far away. Washing the laundry just in case.....
22nd April 2011, 10:42 PM
To be honest? I would wonder about a breeder without room for her own dogs, so unable to evaluate her own situation and needing her vet to convince her that she needs to rehome a dog due to a difficult prospect for a litter.
You should not take a dog under pressure either.
Maybe it would be better to wait a while -- it just sounds like you have a lot going on with Gracie (health issues and training aren;t things that are easily resolved permanently -- training is something ongoing at all times, that needs to be reviewed and practiced all the time, while health issues tend to wax and wane -- perhaps needing a bit more time for you to get a more complete picture of how things will be to manage longer term). I'd maybe take some more time with her rather than so quickly bring in another dog. I'd also perhaps work with someone besides Gracie's breeder on finding another dog -- that breeder with the males just sounds.... strange.
Just keep in mind too that a dog this young is very difficult to evaluate in terms of health -- most 2.5 year olds are going to be on the surface, healthy. If you get a second dog with health issues, can you manage that time and costwise? These are the realties of purebred dogs in particular, and this breed has some significant health problems -- you just want to make sure you have the ability to make that 100% commitment if there are problems. :thmbsup:
Ps if this dog has been MRI scanned, you would have a better idea of current health. Also 'best known stud dogs' are sometimes the ones to avoid -- question again would be -- heart certs? MRI? hip scored? eyes tested? And all grandparents? Same as getting a puppy.
22nd April 2011, 10:42 PM
Oh wow.......that would be a fast decision, a month or two early. You know Debra, it's a very personal decision, and if you aren't ready, then let him go.
My biggest worry would be since he has been an intact male, has he been used for breeding, and if so, would this mean even after neutering he'd still be bugging and humping Gracie? I couldn't take that if it was me. And it seems that others have mentioned this before as one of the biggest problems with males that have been used for breeding in the past.
Of course I could be all wet on this, and maybe someone can address that issues that has more experience than I do.
Either way, wishing you luck with your decision.
Cindy and Claire
22nd April 2011, 10:53 PM
The situation reminds me of an old saying bankers had about making loans to customers: "If I don't have time to ponder it, then I don't have time to do it (make the loan)."
If rushing into a decision is not in your comfort zone, it might be a sign from the-powers-that-be that this is not the dog for you.
22nd April 2011, 10:59 PM
Sounds like a nice dog. Glad the breeder offered 1 year full refund if he doesnt work out.
So pros in this situation are:
Older dog without puppy antics
1 year to decide if he fits in or not
health tests all available
handsome retired show boy!
Breeder had to have vet tell her to let the dog go...
rushing a decision in less than a week
Gracie still recovering from GI problems
Prepare for cost of two dogs
Possibility of humping and bothering Gracie
What else can be added to each list? Hmm..
I can see you going either way. There aren't enough cons I think that would make me scream NO WAY. As stated before, this is a personal decision. Good luck in whichever choice :) Neither is a wrong choice I would say.
23rd April 2011, 12:09 AM
I think something is just not right for it to be rushed. The lady who has the dogs is not really a breeder of dogs to sell to general population...she mainly breeds show dogs and recently had a huge room that was flooded after the big storms that came thru 2 weeks ago. I forgot that piece of info. So that is one reason why she has a space issue that she did not used to have.
And it was not my breeder who recommended her... he has the one male dog that he shows and I don't think he knows the lady in the other state. But still.... something is just not right to me to be pushed like this. To go from one minute saying it would be early June to having to go right away is making me very uncomfortable. I do agree with Karlin that I wanted Gracie to be a bit further along with her diet issues and that's where we thought we would be by June. Her training is doing pretty good and she is very obedient after 3 classes and daily practice, but want to get her diet more stable. So I think we will keep looking.
23rd April 2011, 12:51 AM
I have to agree with karlin about mentioning the best known stud dog. I'm just unsure why that was even mentioned... maybe I'm missing the conversation, but I would not think that should come into play in your decision. Really for health, whether show dog or not, you need to make sure they have what karlin mentioned. Its really easy to have opportunites come up.
Also, In the past year I have had 3, just not a decision to make at the spur of the moment. Its so easy to feel like it will be the last chance but believe me, there are always cavaliers needing homes at times when its right.
Gracie has a lot going on so I'm sure another opportunity or cavalier will come along when the time is right. You are doing a good thing by asking questions and seeking advice.
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23rd April 2011, 01:28 AM
If you feel rushed, or anxious about doing it I wouldn't take him. I looked for nearly a year before getting my second one, in July I was offered a puppy from a breeder I liked but it was a Blenheim male, I had my heart set on getting a girl. I also wasn't sure about my travel plans, as it turns out I had to be away for 2 weeks a month later, and a few days shortly after that.
At the time I was considering the male, I just felt very uneasy, not about him; about taking a puppy on such short notice, and getting him shortly before business trips that would mean I would have to board Guinness and the puppy. So I didn't take him.
Five months later I got a Blenheim female by the same sire, the timing was right for me, and she's exactly what I had hoped for.
Also, CKCSC, USA has a list of adult dogs available, in case you haven't tried there. A long drive isn't a big deal, IMHO, because you'll only have go a few times, once or twice to meet him, and once to pick him up.
23rd April 2011, 02:34 AM
Good to know about the ckcsc USA list of adults.
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23rd April 2011, 01:47 PM
CKCSC, USA has a list of adult dogs available, in case you haven't tried there. A long drive isn't a big deal, IMHO, because you'll only have go a few times, once or twice to meet him, and once to pick him up.
Gonna look this up now, but also going to keep networking with breeders here that
I will say that the dog I was talking about getting .... the breeder did not ever mention his sire being a champion stud. I just found from research that he has sired several grand champions.
28th April 2011, 10:25 PM
I agree with what everyone else has said. Never feel rushed into getting a dog. As a breeder I want to know that the people who I'm intrusting our pups with, are going to be right for that puppy. That could mean anything from choosing the pup with the right personality for the person, to refusing to allow someone to adopt a pup altogether. I would never produce a litter without being sure that I could give everyone of them a forever home if necessary. Also, if for some reason that person can no longer keep the dog, it comes back to me. It seems a little irresponsible for someone to produce a litter that was going to force them to have to quickly re-home one of their current dogs, despite extenuating circumstances and excuses. As far as the "warranty", think about how hard it would be to give up this dog after you've fallen in love with it, and things didn't work out.
This "tough delivery" thing doesn't sit well with me either. Why does she assume it's going to be a "tough delivery"? If she's baseing it on the fact that the dam has had "tough deliveries" in the past or are there are physical issues. It would be my opionion that dam should not have been bred. Great show dog or not. Even if all pups are lined up breach, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad birth. How long can a birth last? Maybe most of a day. Why does that mean she has to get rid of a dog she's had for 2.5 years before it happens? Even if she ends up bottle feeding? All that just sounds like a convienant excuse to push you into taking the dog.
I have also found that cavaliers (excluding young puppies) have an uncanny ability to know when each other is sick or hurt. They will be extra carefull around them. I have two who will "mother" anyone not feeling well by licking faces and lying with them. It's the "comforter spaniel" they were bred to be coming out. Even the other's will just leave them alone. I agree that the right friend may be good for Gracie, but you need the time to make sure you've found a friend that is right for you and Gracie.
If I had someone approach me in your situation, I would suggest that I bring the potential adoptee to your home for a couple of visits first, to gauge exactly how Gracie would re-act to them.
Trust your gut. Let us know what you decide and how things work out. Good luck!
29th April 2011, 07:57 PM
We did decide to pass on this dog. I am sure he is very sweet but too many questions. The vet is the one who told her it may be difficult birth but I still sense too many uneasy things going on. My gut says to wait for a better situation.
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