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View Full Version : Was Tess a runt?



robbieswan
11th May 2011, 09:09 PM
Even when we had Tess for her first lot of vaccs, the vet said she was small and probably a runt. Here is a picture of her at 10 months. She was skinny but very well fed. She has filled out now, but still a slim dog. Anything I should know or keep an eye on?

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae358/robbieswan/youngtess.jpg

GreenDenmark
11th May 2011, 09:40 PM
wow she is pretty :luv:

Davecav
11th May 2011, 09:40 PM
She looks fine! Honestly, she looks fit and healthy. Dogs are like people, some run any extra fat off very quickly and efficiently, others are on a continuous diet to battle with the flab:(

BTW - I really do not like the term used for a small pup as 'the runt!! Bad Bad Vet!

But vets sometimes say something without thinking a new owner might take it to heart! They are just giving a bit of idle chat, but occasionally this can put the wind up new owners, as they start analysing what isn't actually there.

Your vet could just as easily have said the opposite, just in conversation, and not particularly meaning anything significant, ie - 'oh she's a big heafty pup isn't she?' and then you would begin to worry that you had bought a potentional monster.:eek:

Brian M
11th May 2011, 09:57 PM
Hello Rob

I agree she looks fine (there we are davecav I agree with you and happy to do so :)) she is about the age my four were spayed ,has she been spayed yet.? And as Davecav said she looks a happy well balanced beautiful little girl .:)

robbieswan
11th May 2011, 09:59 PM
No, she has not been spayed yet..We are toying with the idea of breeding her later I think. Thank you for your advice, you have put my mind at rest now.

LexieAndSprinkles
12th May 2011, 03:10 AM
She looks great!! I don't know that being a "runt" really matters. Lexie was NOT the runt of her litter and she's only 8-9 pounds full grown.

Sprinkles was a PIG. Basically like twice the other puppies size haha and now at 10 months she's the smallest of the 4 at 12 pounds.

Our boy Max, we were told WAS the runt and now he's a healthy 20 pounds!

I think it all changes when genetics come into play as they grow.

Jasper and Holly
12th May 2011, 04:21 AM
No, she has not been spayed yet..We are toying with the idea of breeding her later I think. Thank you for your advice, you have put my mind at rest now.

Why would you want to do that? Do you know all her background?

robbieswan
12th May 2011, 07:11 AM
Why would you want to do that? Do you know all her background?
Yes, we have all the papers with her. We got her from a reputable breeder from Pembrokeshire..It something we are toying with.

Sabby
12th May 2011, 09:44 AM
Yes, we have all the papers with her. We got her from a reputable breeder from Pembrokeshire..It something we are toying with.


I won’t give you a lecture about breeding, as when I had my first Cavalier Rosie I was on another Forum and when I even mentioned that I wanted to breed with her everybody came down on me like a ton of bricks, even I mentioned that I had all the help I needed from Rosies breeder like going with me to all the healthchecks and researching the right stud dog all the way to being there when the pups were born and everything afterwards. We never breed and I am glad as I could never let go off the puppies.

I am sure you must have read about all the health problems so you must know the cost involved to check she is suitable for breeding. Like MRI Scans, Heart testing and so on.

jasperpaw
12th May 2011, 12:16 PM
Tess is beautiful and I certainly would`nt say she looks like a runt, she looks quite high in the legs and probably carries her weight well. My ll year old looks very much like Tess was when he was 10 months old, and he grew quite slowly, he was not a runt of the litter, he has never been big and like Tess is high in the legs, my one year old is lower in the leg but longer in the body and has grown really fast - it all depends on there ancesters.

sins
12th May 2011, 02:16 PM
No,absolutely not a runt!
As for breeding,you really need to be sure that your bitch is truly healthy.
Opthalmologist eye testing
Cardiologist heart tests
Mri scan to test for syringomyelia
EF/Dry eye & Curly Coat
(all at 2.5 years)....£350
Stud fee...............£400-£600 and ensure that the stud dog has same tests done.
c section or vet call out for Oxytocin drip..............£600,
ultrasounds,whelping box,microchips and puppy vaccinations,litter screening maybe around £250.
Most reputable breeders would have endorsed your bitches pedigree and only allowed it to be lifted with their agreement when she's passed all the above tests.
The cavalier breed is going through a very difficult time in terms of health issues and most people consider breeding only for the show ring or for health, in some cases both!
The only proof that other people's dogs are truly healthy is to ask to see the relevant health certs.
Eye certs from the opthalmologist
Cardiac certs from heart specialist
Mri scan and certificate from neurologist and EF/DE/CC from animal health trust.
Hope this helps,
Sins

Rubysmum
12th May 2011, 04:45 PM
she is beautiful ! my ruby isnt much different in size at nearly 2 ,although her legs are much shorter .tess looks great !

Karlin
12th May 2011, 05:23 PM
I do understand this thread was started with one intention and opened into a different discussion without new members realising there are issues with this topic.

Please read the 'getting started' section which specifically mentions that it is not acceptable to discuss breeding one's dog, planning to breed one's dog etc on this forum and gives the reasons why.

The forum is also closed to breeder members for reasons also noted in the Getting Started section, whether backyard breeders (which is what anyone is who is breeding their own dog for a few puppies, whether to make money or not), club breeders or commercial breeders. I have made a tiny number of exceptions, primarily for reputable, well known breeders in cases where people are personally known to me and are known health advocates, or are former breeders with a strong health advocacy role. At this time these number fewer than 6 out of over 5000 members.

I am well aware there are a couple of breeders primarily from the UK who post as apparent 'regular' members who think they are successfully in disguise -- we simply watch your posts and for now, leave you here (for my own reasons). Most of the time, I will eventually delete you as members.

A runt should almost never be bred. The term is not used for any smaller puppy and has a specific and useful meaning for an UNDERSIZED puppy that may remain undersized for an inexplicable reason (and if owners are too sensitive to hear this from a vet when a breeder didn't responsibly explain the implications to the buyer of taking an *undersized runt* then they are either too sensitive to own a dog or at least should be grateful to be properly informed and can keep an eye out for any potential issues thanks to their vet's observations. My own breeder would not sell the runt of Jaspar's litter when I went to select a puppy, not til much later when he was sure he was gaining weight and growing normally, and responsibly told the buyer that the pup had been the runt). Dogs that are the smallest in the litter and remain small when littermates become a normal size often will have underlying health issues as the reason why, and they may not be apparent for many years or UNLESS a person MRIs -- because smallness can be due to a neurological issue such as hydrocephalus which is not always symptomatic. Unfortunately those deceptive breeders selling 'small/teacup' cavaliers are doing so by breeding runts -- undersized adults -- and these will have a far higher risk of additional health problems.

Please: as Sins says, this breed has so many pressing health issues that simply owning a nice dog or having one's vet say breeding is OK must NEVER EVER be the basis for taking on such serious responsibility. Such indiscriminate breeding has greatly increased the tragic, widespread health problems of a breed whose most serious, endemic, costly and painful health problems are MVD and SM, which require specialist testing to diagnose and CANNOT be based on a vet's comments -- MVD is seen in well OVER 50% OF ALL CAVALIERS by 5-6; SM in close to those figures according to a survey sample of 800 asymptomatic dogs, and 70% with SM and almost 100% with MVD by 10+ , which likely, eventually means odds are EVERYONE's on this board has or will have one or most likely BOTH serious problems :( ). An MRI costs a minimum of £200 in the UK and more typically, at least £1000-1500, or $1000-2500 in the US.

Absolutely no cavalier should ever be bred without at MRI for both sire and dam, and ideally with same having been done on all four parents of the sire and dam. Doing anything else is pure selfishness or greed, and totally disregards the health of the breed and every individual dog one produces.

Closing this thread.