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Blondiemonster
17th May 2011, 03:38 AM
I brought Blondie to the groomers because my bf insisted (shedding..).
She came back and hours later has clearly aggrevated symptoms.
As a matter of fact, I've never seen quiet like this. She's rubbing her head,
lies on the floor and doesn't wanna move and seems in discomfort. She seems mad at her hindlegs! Everytime she wants to play or do something it seems like they "twitch" and then she bites at them and gets really really mad...
This all happened right around when the gabapentin 8 hour mark was coming up, and I gave her the gabapentin just a half an hour ago and gave her a teeny chunk of tramadol left from he spaying surgery. We are already seeing the neuro once every 3 months , and obviously if this doesn't subside I will be going in sooner but,
is this common after grooming? she seems to be seriously irritated by something on her back leg as well... Is it possible they aggrevated the nerve endings somehow? I don't know.. Just guessing. I knew this groomer thing was a bad idea. Darn. Thanks for any advice.. p.s I should add this seems to be a similar episode like last year, which i what led me to find out about the SM... LAt yearm It lasted a few days after which we got her MRI'd and they did a myringotomy and the symptoms subsided. It was a very acute episode. It seems to be the same thing now and I'm really frustrated...

sins
17th May 2011, 11:55 AM
I think it's possible that the grooming causes some level of upset to her.
Our Daisy is clearly annoyed when she comes home.
But sometimes a visit to a groomer is essential when you can't get to groom her yourself.(Daisy is at the groomer this morning as I have a trapped nerve in my neck:()
Some things I've found which can help.
Ask the groomer not to use heavily scented products.
Trim her ears and coat and thin out some of the heavier coat.
And finally,not string her up by the neck on the grooming table.
I expect vigorous dematting would be unpleasant for her too and we've learned to avoid slicker brushes.
Try giving her a blanket with her own scent on it and she might feel a bit more relaxed.
Hopefully she'll settle for you and not have any more problems after her visit to the salon:)
Sins

anniemac
17th May 2011, 01:14 PM
I'm so sorry :( I have heard grooming can be aggrevating. I remember one groomer being particularly bad. Sins gave good ideas. I told mine not to use anything around her neck.

Also their feet can be extra sensitive and I would tell them if it seems to hurt her cutting toe nails to leave them. I would give ella tramadol before and I found one familiar with condition. Wow! Actually shows cavaliers but I have had one really bad experience that led me to being real picky.

Please keep us updated.

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anniemac
17th May 2011, 01:18 PM
Did she calm down after gabapentin?

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Blondiemonster
17th May 2011, 04:53 PM
Unfortunately she has not calmed down. Not even the tramadol helped at all. It all reminds me a lot of what happened a year ago: the sudden onset of problems. The massive problem here is that i once again am clueless wheter it is the psom or sm that is aggrevated. She is acting really, really strange. Its as if her hind legs keep spasming which causeher to completely freak out. She doesnt yelp but she seems to be so irritated and frustrated its really hard to explain. I dont know what to do. Wheiter to go straight for a miryngotomy ( last year these exact symptoms were follow by a miryngotomy which caused relieve). Wheither to go to dr west and ask for prednisone, or do sonething else or wait a few days. Like i said the whole psom thing is seriously annoying.

Karlin
17th May 2011, 06:16 PM
I would call your neurologist for advice; that sounds fairly serious.

A lot of SM dogs cannot tolerate grooming -- they can be touched and manipulated in ways that can be painful as groomers don't really understand that even brushing, or the massaging that goes with washing, can hurt. A lot of us keep our dogs ears short as well or the coat, if the dog is bothered by bushing or if claws get caught in hair (this happens with two of mine so I keep their ears short).

It is hard to say whether the grooming brought this on; it could be coincidental. If it was grooming it really should stop very quickly. SM dogs do tend to go through good and bad spells. If the existing meds are not managing a bad spell then you'll want to get a mix that will. Hopefully this isn;t a further decline overall but just a bad spell. :flwr:

Blondiemonster
17th May 2011, 09:11 PM
Thanks Karlin. I just spoke with Dr West. He is giving her prednisone for 3 days starting tonight. Re-evaluate by Saturday...
This is so very weird, and I know people thought I was crazy when I first brought this up. Last year when this "attack" happened I had frontlined her the day before. Vet was laughing at me for thinking there was a relation. Guess what I did the day before yesterday? Frontlined her. Nobody was laughing when I brought it up this time. I know frontline works on the neurological system of ticks and fleas, and when I do a google search there are many other who claim Frontline to be very toxic. I wonder if it aggrevates her neurological system. A coincedence or not, we shall see.. I hope, just like you, thatt this is just an isolated event and that the pred helps.

Karlin
17th May 2011, 10:37 PM
Oh geez, I would not use Frontline again then -- it may well be a neurological reaction. This can happen in a tiny number of dogs. I would guess that is your problem.

Karlin
17th May 2011, 10:40 PM
Concerns About Fipronil

While the typical side effect to Frontline is skin reactions, its active ingredient, fipronil, lists other potential concerns when used on canines.

Skin problems – As stated earlier, fipronil can cause irritation to your dog’s skin. This irritation can go beyond simple itching as the scratching can cause ulceration and open sores.
Nervous system damage – Fipronil is a neurotoxin, causing damage to the fleas’ nervous system. It can have the same effect on your dog, causing symptoms such as convulsions, body twitches, loss of appetite, unsteady gait and other effects.
Carcinogen – Fipronil has been shown to cause thyroid cancer in dogs. Because of its carcinogenic qualities, it is important for the person applying the Frontline product to thoroughly wash their hands with soap and warm water to adequately remove the product from their skin.
Organ damage – Autopsies have shown an accumulation of fipronil in canine livers and kidneys, causing an increase in organ weight. Fipronil has also been shown to alter the levels of hormone secreted by the thyroid gland.
Infertility – Fipronil has also been shown to have an effect on a dog’s fertility. Its use has led to smaller litter size, difficulty in conception, decreased litter weights and increase in litter deaths.
While Frontline products have had successful use in the control of flea populations, there have been negative results seen when dogs have been maintained for extended periods on the products. The fipronil builds up in your dog’s body, giving it the chance to cause problems. If Frontline is your choice for flea control, consider taking a 3 to 6 month break during low flea infestation periods to allow your dog’s body to rid itself of any toxic build up that may have occurred. This will help to avoid the potential of any problems arising from the fipronil.



My emphasis. There have been reports of dogs with these issues. See:

http://www.vetinfo.com/side-effects-fipronil-frontline-dogs.html

Blondiemonster
17th May 2011, 10:44 PM
My emphasis. There have been reports of dogs with these issues. See:

http://www.vetinfo.com/side-effects-fipronil-frontline-dogs.html


Wow Karlin. I cannot believe it but it sounds exactly like what is going on. (body twitches, etc..) I can only hope the pred will help. I would imagine frontline doesn't cause permanent neurological damage? Oh my. No I'm all worried. :huh::huh:

Karlin
17th May 2011, 10:45 PM
Also:


Tremors in Dogs

Step 1:
The New York Times again notes "a large number" of anecdotal reports of dogs experiencing tremors after receiving a dose of Frontline.

http://www.dailypuppy.com/articles/harmful-side-effects-of-frontline-to-dogs--humans/5615cad4-7d78-314b-73c0-2b4900d90eb9

Blondiemonster
17th May 2011, 11:06 PM
I just called Dr. West's office, and it doesn't seem they believe me about the frontline. I basically begged for a prescription for a muscle relaxer, which is what I read online would help with the tremors. Instead she's on emergency pred 5 mg twice daily for 3 days. Still waiting for a phone call from Dr. West. It makes me angry that it gets blamed on the SM while there is an obvious correlation between to totally isolated events.

Blondiemonster
17th May 2011, 11:17 PM
I just called Dr. West's office, and it doesn't seem they believe me about the frontline. I basically begged for a prescription for a muscle relaxer, which is what I read online would help with the tremors. Instead she's on emergency pred 5 mg twice daily for 3 days. Still waiting for a phone call from Dr. West. It makes me angry that it gets blamed on the SM while there is an obvious correlation between to totally isolated events.

So confirmed that Dr. west won't give me the muscle relaxer benzo. even though I know for a fact that it would help and that it won't harm her. Very frustrating.

Karlin
18th May 2011, 12:34 AM
Well, it could be either -- it is very hard to make a guess. Preds will quite possibly help regardless and that is a tiny and short dose. You could try your vet (or a different new vet) for the muscle relaxant. But just be aware that it is good to be a bit sceptical about what people say should be done, online. The excerpts I posted come from either vet sites or were reported by a legit news source. A lot of what is said should or must be done by people online in a medical context are posts by people who really don't know ( I am sure many of us with medical conditions or illnesses have read forums where someone that clearly had something prescribed for their particular situation posts a completely misleading post to someone stating they absolutely should do X or Y when there's no way a different person should take the course of action prescribed specifically for them).

I'd have taken the approach you did -- consult a medical professional with the information I had and ask for advice. If I felt strongly this wasn't the direction I wanted to go then I'd see if a different professional will agree that a muscle relaxant is the right approach. If the tremors are self-limiting and brief I probably wouldn't worry about it.

I would also look for a non-chemical way of managing fleas in future. Don't forget SM dogs have chronic disease and often a weakened immune system. Thus there's a need to be cautious with any chemical treatments, vaccines etc. Personally, I only use flea treatments about twice a year at most.

Blondiemonster
18th May 2011, 03:25 AM
Karlin She took prednisone, 3 hours ago but so far she is still acting funny but it may take time. Not sure how fast it works. Especially if this is related to sm i would expect improvement. Will keep you posted...

mommytoClaire
18th May 2011, 03:54 AM
I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to say I'm so sorry you and Blondie are going through this, and I'll be saying a little prayer for her.

I think, just recently, we discussed holistic approaches to fleas.....probably if you search here you can find it. I can't remember where it might be or what the title of the thread was. But, there were some good suggestions.

My older (non Cav) diabetic I am VERY careful about what I give him anymore as he has so many issues. I just won't subject him to too much anymore.

Poor sweet Blondie!

Blondiemonster
18th May 2011, 04:43 AM
I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to say I'm so sorry you and Blondie are going through this, and I'll be saying a little prayer for her.

I think, just recently, we discussed holistic approaches to fleas.....probably if you search here you can find it. I can't remember where it might be or what the title of the thread was. But, there were some good suggestions.

My older (non Cav) diabetic I am VERY careful about what I give him anymore as he has so many issues. I just won't subject him to too much anymore.

Poor sweet Blondie!

Thanks Claire's mommy... I am very, very worried. So not fair that these gentle souls have to suffer whatsoever. It eats me up inside. think i can almost use a valium myself. :x Lord, what a day.

BrooklynMom
18th May 2011, 02:50 PM
Oh I am so sorry to you and Blondie!! I don't have any experience or advice with this, but I just wanted to say that Brooky and I are thinking of you. I think it is the middle of the night in NYC right now, so do give us an update in the morning to let us know how she is going and how she made it through the night.
Keep being the great mom that you are, because it sounds like Blondie needs all that extra lovin' and energy she cam get right now.
Poor little thing!

Blondiemonster
18th May 2011, 07:15 PM
Blondie is improved today but still has some tremors. Keep fingers crossed for more improvement.. Thanks for your thoughts brooklyns mom...

jessie22
18th May 2011, 08:57 PM
I'm just reading about poor Blondie! I sure hope she is feeling better. I'm very sorry she is feeling bad. :( You're a good mommy, I know she's going to be ok!
Also, thanks for the info on Frontline, I'm going to check into a more natural approach for flea control I'm thinking.
My fingers and Ruby's paws are crossed for your girlie to be feeling back to her normal self real soon! :)

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mommytoClaire
19th May 2011, 02:16 AM
Hoping for an update on Blondie.

It's so hard, there are so many things that can cause issues for our dogs. And since they can't talk, it just makes it that much harder.

I know that I had a friend whose dog was very sensitive to traditional treatment to fleas and ticks.

Frontline is the flea and tick one right? Or does it also cover heartworm? I'd stick with just heartworm pills and not deal with the fleas and tick with an all encompassing med. There are dogs that react to the vaccines that are combo's.

Then I'd try to find natural alternatives for the fleas and ticks. Hoping she is doing better poor little sweetie!

Blondiemonster
19th May 2011, 04:57 PM
Blondie is doing better than on day 1 but she is still not her same old self.
I cannot go for walks with her, she get's excited and than the "spasms" start again.
This is her last day of prednisone too, and I'm not sure if the pred helps or if it's just the natural process. Its also nasty weather and it's been for days (grey, humid and always seems like its gonna thunder, so the worst for Neuro problems)
Btw, My friends mom just told me her malthese has a NASTY neurological reaction to frontline that took months to get better. So it's not uncommon at all and I will NEVER touch it ever again.
Now here is the kicker: a massive, fat tick rolled of her body today. The groomers must 've missed it. But the kicker is that frontline doesn't even work.
She must've had it this whole time. (I front lined her because I found a tick on her after a walk in the woods) :huh::huh:

anniemac
19th May 2011, 05:08 PM
Blondie is doing better than on day 1 but she is still not her same old self.
I cannot go for walks with her, she get's excited and than the "spasms" start again.
This is her last day of prednisone too, and I'm not sure if the pred helps or if it's just the natural process. Its also nasty weather and it's been for days (grey, humid and always seems like its gonna thunder, so the worst for Neuro problems)
Btw, My friends mom just told me her malthese has a NASTY neurological reaction to frontline that took months to get better. So it's not uncommon at all and I will NEVER touch it ever again.
Now here is the kicker: a massive, fat tick rolled of her body today. The groomers must 've missed it. But the kicker is that frontline doesn't even work.
She must've had it this whole time. (I front lined her because I found a tick on her after a walk in the woods) :huh::huh:

Are you kidding me!! Poor blondie. Please keep us updated. Did you mention this to dr. West? I am on the road trying to catch up. I read what you and karlin wrote about frontline. Was that before or after you talked to dr. West? I would mention this to him again. Like I hate to say it like this, but I hope it has more to do with the weather on top of everything else instead of taking months to get over like your moms friend.

I remember praying for good weather because it really does have a relation to sm dogs like you said. Oh no, I'm sorry.

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Karlin
19th May 2011, 05:32 PM
Prednisone usually takes at least half a day to start working and persists for 24-36 hours after the last dose generally. I would call Dr West to explain what is happening. And again: I'd just go to a vet and talk about a possible antidote if this is a neurological reaction to Frontline. If this were an SM flare-up, I think you'd probably expect it to have settled by now with prednisone; it is pretty powerful on that type of pain. Hard to know if improvement you have seen is due to preds or a Frontline problem going away of its own accord.

Because use of these flea/tick meds are now widespread many insects are getting resistance to them (quite a few have posted on various dog lists about various products no longer working on fleas. But if a tick is still attached it doesn't actually mean Frontline wasn't working -- it can take a couple of days for them to detach and fall off). Often you need to switch and try a different product using a different insecticide if resistance has developed. But in your shoes, I would not use any further chemical products on Blondie as there looks like there could be a link between symptoms and Frontline side effects :(.

It is really important to understand that the vast majority of dogs have no problems with this medication. There will always be rare cases of animals that do -- just like there will always be people who have one or some of the long lists of potential side effects listed for medications. Frontline would be very commonly used by people here and this is the first possible reaction I have heard of in over 6 years of the board being in existence -- so if this is a side effect, it is very rare.

That said as a general point I don't really like using flea products very often because owners are dosing their dogs with quite strong chemicals that get absorbed into their systems. But we do not have a bad flea problem in our cool climate and no heartworm and few ticks.

Blondiemonster
19th May 2011, 06:26 PM
I agree with you on the prednisone Karlin. It should've worked by now and completely eliminated the symptoms, if they are exaggerated SM symptoms brought on by frontline or not. Since,
Last year the exact same thing happened after frontlining her, I do have some sort of reference:
After a week of no improvement she went under full anesthesia for an MRI because I was suspecting SM. When she came out of anesthesia the symptoms where completely gone. Strange huh?
Maybe the very intense form of "muscle relaxer/valium" under the form of general anesthesia stopped the symptoms.
Anyhow, since they DID go way last year, I am hopeful that it will go away now.
Karlin and Anne, last year I got laughed at by the regular vet with my frontline story.
Dr. Marino also didn't take it very seriously.
Dr. West his team blaimed it on her SM completely and also wont listen to my frontline story, since he didn't want to give muscle relaxers and his assistant vet was pretty condecending to me on the phone each time I brought up "frontline'.
I feel like I am on my own here. The only thing I can try is a brand new vet and not say anything about SM. I feel like "that" mom with her sick child going from doc to doc and nobody will listen. :)

anniemac
19th May 2011, 08:09 PM
I really wish you could find a vet you liked in the area. Karlin did mention that it probably is not very common so I can sort of see why a vet might not put it together the first time. I hated when my vet looked at me like I was crazy describing things with ella. Rod one time gave me advice about vets, that its important if they want to listen and help. You know a general vet might not know all there is about sm or may have never had a dog/cat react to frontline, but if you took what you googled and karlin quoted, I would want one to show concern and help sort this out. Just my opinion.

You have every right to be a concerned mom. That's a good thing. Its also good you remembered what happened last time she had an episode and wrote down that information to put pieces together. I know you have been frustrated with the PSOM and everything else, but I think I would definately be concerned and maybe even call frontline. It might not be tied to it (sounds like maybe it is) but it wouldn't hurt to see what others have had reactions.





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Blondiemonster
19th May 2011, 08:52 PM
It has to be tied to it because its to coincedental. Im gonna wait it out a few days and hope it subsides like it did last time...

mommytoClaire
19th May 2011, 09:38 PM
Anne has a good point. I'd google the Frontline reactions you got. Perhaps if you contacted a holistic Vet, one that could help you with something more natural that may help in keeping the ticks and fleas off Blondie.

And yes, Karlin is right, I am sure it's rare, but it's just a shame that it happened to Blondie with all her other issues.

Hugs,

anniemac
19th May 2011, 10:05 PM
Poor Blondie

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lovecavaliers
21st May 2011, 12:05 AM
OMG just catching up. Poor Blondie, how is she today? I am sorry the doctors aren't listening. You said a tick rolled off of her, could she have lyme disease? My brother's dog just came down with it and they live in NY too.
Jack also gets an exacerbation of symptoms for a few days after using Frontline so now I only do it during the hot humid months. However now I am thinking not to do it at all.

Please do update on Blondie.

BrooklynMom
21st May 2011, 02:02 AM
Just thinking about Blondie this morning...how is she going???

Blondiemonster
22nd May 2011, 03:55 AM
I'm glad to inform you Blondie is much better today. Kind of the same as last year.
One week of tremors. Very, very strange. But I am so happy she is doing better I am just grateful and not questioning it!!!!!:D:D:D:*nana::*nana: wow irene, i cannot believe you notice it in jack too so frontline is really toxic especially in dogs with an impaired neurological system like ours. Im a little pissed that dr west wouldnt listen though i think hes a great doc. But hey, like karlin said ita supposed to be so rare. I am never touching that stuff again im going the holistic route from now on. What r the symptoms of lyme? I think it seemed to come on too fast after the tick bite isnt their an incubation time? I really think it was a nasty neuro reaction to frontlined combined with the already existing sm...

anniemac
22nd May 2011, 04:47 AM
So glad she's doing better!

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goda
22nd May 2011, 04:52 AM
I brought Blondie to the groomers because my bf insisted (shedding..).
She came back and hours later has clearly aggrevated symptoms.
As a matter of fact, I've never seen quiet like this. She's rubbing her head,
lies on the floor and doesn't wanna move and seems in discomfort. She seems mad at her hindlegs! Everytime she wants to play or do something it seems like they "twitch" and then she bites at them and gets really really mad...
This all happened right around when the gabapentin 8 hour mark was coming up, and I gave her the gabapentin just a half an hour ago and gave her a teeny chunk of tramadol left from he spaying surgery. We are already seeing the neuro once every 3 months , and obviously if this doesn't subside I will be going in sooner but,
is this common after grooming? she seems to be seriously irritated by something on her back leg as well... Is it possible they aggrevated the nerve endings somehow? I don't know.. Just guessing. I knew this groomer thing was a bad idea. Darn. Thanks for any advice.. p.s I should add this seems to be a similar episode like last year, which i what led me to find out about the SM... LAt yearm It lasted a few days after which we got her MRI'd and they did a myringotomy and the symptoms subsided. It was a very acute episode. It seems to be the same thing now and I'm really frustrated...

Just to groom her yourself. I just bought a hair trimmer and I cut Luka's and Atlas's hair myself. I also learned to express their anal gland and brush their teeth every 2 days and scrape the hard plaque once a month or so.

Luka has never had any episodes after I have groomed him, other than giving me a dirty look.

lovecavaliers
22nd May 2011, 06:34 AM
Yeay so happy Blondie is feeling better! Those little fur balls really make us worry!

In regards to your question on lyme disease. I just found this info on the web:
http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/infectious-parasitic/c_dg_lyme_disease
My brother's dog started limping and refused to go down steps so when they took her to the vet they found a tick on her and ran blood tests. She was treated and is doing great. Not sure what the incubation period is either.

Sorry Dr. W was so reluctant to listen to you. He definitely has his opinions :)

However most important is Blondie is back to her old self:*nana:

jessie22
22nd May 2011, 08:07 AM
YAY!!! I'm very happy to read this! :) Great, GREAT news!!!
Woooooooooooo-hooooooooooooooo!!! Go, Blondie, GO! :rah:

Holly
23rd May 2011, 08:47 PM
With my SM girl, I always give her Tramadol about an hour before I bathe her. If I don't, she has a really hard time after her bath. She doesn't get the Tramadol on a regular basis-- just as needed.

Karlin
23rd May 2011, 11:47 PM
Actually I never thought of Lyme disease -- that may be worth testing for to be safe. Usually the tick needs to be on for at least 48 hours but if you had one tick you could have had others that went unnoticed. Not sure how much later symptoms would start. It might be worth mentioning to your vet. But if you had a bad reaction of similar nature at the last time you used Frontline I'd think that would be the likely connection.

Reptigirl
24th May 2011, 01:17 AM
OMG! Just reading this thread!

When I ended up at the vet with Holly and they presume back troubles... It was the day after I put frontline plus on her.

It was unlike any "SM" flare I have ever seen in any of them. But she was also yelping. I remember thinking it was a little strange that it happened right after the frontline and that was in the back of my head the whole time. She just acted "off", was very uncomfrotable and in serious pain. Yelping when touched. She was a little unsteady on her feet and had trembling back legs. I had just never heard of Frontline causing such issues. Now I know I wasn't crazy! My vet said the leg trembling was from being in pain.

Funny thing is I felt the need to switch back to Advantage. I just had a "feeling" about the frontline and her symptoms.

Sure glad I did! Holly has not had another episode like that since....

Vet sent her home with muscle relaxers and she recovered quickly.... I actually didn't follow the 2 weeks complete kennel rest because she recovered so quickly.

Blondiemonster
24th May 2011, 01:25 AM
OMG! Just reading this thread!

When I ended up at the vet with Holly and they presume back troubles... It was the day after I put frontline plus on her.

It was unlike any "SM" flare I have ever seen in any of them. But she was also yelping. I remember thinking it was a little strange that it happened right after the frontline and that was in the back of my head the whole time. She just acted "off", was very uncomfrotable and in serious pain. Yelping when touched. She was a little unsteady on her feet and had trembling back legs. I had just never heard of Frontline causing such issues. Now I know I wasn't crazy! My vet said the leg trembling was from being in pain.

Funny thing is I felt the need to switch back to Advantage. I just had a "feeling" about the frontline and her symptoms.

Sure glad I did! Holly has not had another episode like that since....

Vet sent her home with muscle relaxers and she recovered quickly.... I actually didn't follow the 2 weeks complete kennel rest because she recovered so quickly.


That's just crazy. It seems to be not very uncommon in dogs with SM. (you, me and Irene. lol that sounds funny. Isn't that a movie title?) And that's only on this board.. I'm so glad you did get the muscle relaxers. That's what i asked for but it wasn't given to me because everybody just thinks "Poor girl with her serious SM, the mother trying to blame it on frontline" I don't even think the prednisone helped, though surely that's what will get the credit for her being better.
The symptoms were also also like NOTHING i've ever seen except for when frontlining.

@ KArlin: we ended finding about 10 ticks on her believe it or not but caught most of them right coming from the woods. There maybe 2 deer ticks. There were 2 that stayed on there for 48 hours but not sure if they were deerticks since they were so full off blood i couldnt say

anniemac
24th May 2011, 02:55 AM
Ella didn't take a topical treatment but I don't know if any other sm cavaliers on forum have taken frontline and NOT had issue. I'm not trying to draw conclusions but I really don't know if this needs further investigating?

It seems strange that 3 of the usa SM cavaliers all had this reaction on the board. If it is somehow connected that's something that maybe others or frontline should know?


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Blondiemonster
24th May 2011, 03:16 AM
I agree Anne. I could copy and paste part Irene's an reptigirls stories, and send to Dr. West and Marino but my experience is that vet's are apprehensive when it comes to those kind of issues especially vs. giant manufacturers of a product that most vets endorse!!!!! But i do agree it doesn't seem safe in SM dogs, 3 dogs on the sm forum alone (and those are the ones that read my thread) have had a bad experience so I bet it's the top of the iceberg

anniemac
24th May 2011, 03:44 AM
Well 3 of the most active people had similar stories and like you said who have read your thread. Ella took confortus or sentinal something like that. I'm not sure how it worked but for a dog having neurological condition maybe treatment that works on fleas neurological system might be of interest.... especialty to neurologists and other owners. Wouldn't want to make false claim BUT too coincidental for my taste.

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Reptigirl
24th May 2011, 03:53 AM
Hum.. I really wonder now too. Maybe someone should start a thread "Issues with FRONTLINE" or something similar so more people will read it? When I first saw the title to the thread I was thinking brushing/nail trimming issues. Not frontline issues...

I used the same batch of frontline on Blitz & Flash and they were fine. (Well as fine as a CM/SM dog can be.) They didn't show any obvious issues that made me wonder. So i'm sure it varies by dog?

I always thought about reactions to flea meds as skin issues... NEVER once did it cross my mind it could be neurological.

I hope we don't have another reaction like that. Fleas are getting BAD here. Even with prevention we are getting fleas in the house :yuk:

Blondiemonster
24th May 2011, 04:27 AM
I know. we are going to the beach on vacation in July and last year brought home fleas, ew. I treated with Capstar and Program since frontline didn't kill them and brought on issues last year too, but the fleas were still there. Capstar and Program worked but I wonder what im gonna do this year.. I don't even wanna use anything that's not holistic but also dont want fleas. I'm not saying ALL Sm dogs will show sensitivity to fronline but 1 out of 3 or one out of 5 is bad enough. :(

Blondiemonster
24th May 2011, 04:58 AM
Maybe Karlin can change the title to "SM and frontline"?
It wont let me.. Also I just emailed Dr. West. I was very respectful about the situation but explained it all including the other stories on the board and said "if there is any correlation at all between SOME dogs with SM not tolerating frontline plus than it's worth the mention"
Maybe you guys can also send a note to your neuro? They may not believe it at first but if the next time a patient complaints of this after using frontline then maybe it will be in the back of their brain...

Reptigirl
24th May 2011, 05:43 AM
If you search the internet for Frontline & Neuro problems there are lots of sites that pop up with people who have had many issues with it.

Although this does not specifically name Frontline I thought I would point it out..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35914331/ns/health-pet_health/t/pet-deaths-prompt-warnings-flea-meds/ (http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/Dog%20and%20cat%20owners%20say%20their%20pets%20ha ve%20suffered%20burns%20and%20welts%20on%20their%2 0skin;%20started%20to%20drool%20excessively;%20beg un%20to%20shake%20uncontrollably;%20lost%20control %20of%20their%20legs%20or%20experienced%20other%20 neurological%20problems%20after%20using%20the%20fl ea%20and%20tick%20treatments.)

"Dog and cat owners say their pets have suffered burns and welts on their skin; started to drool excessively; begun to shake uncontrollably; lost control of their legs or experienced other neurological (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35914331/ns/health-pet_health/t/pet-deaths-prompt-warnings-flea-meds/#) problems after using the flea and tick treatments."

"In a 29-page report, the EPA said the majority of problems for dogs occurred in smaller dogs, weighing 10 to 20 pounds."

Curlyminx
24th May 2011, 09:48 AM
We used frontline on our boys last year, I'll never do it again. My vet says that what happened wasn't anything to do with frontline, but I'm convinced it was.

Nearly 24 hours after treatment Jake started to look sorry for himself, and I noticed that his urine was orange. We went straight to the vet, who told us his liver was failing and he'd probably not survive another 24 hours. They put him on a saline drip to try and flush whatever was causing the problem out of his system and we waited. Thankfully he started to improve, all of the tests that had come back in " the red zone " started to drop back towards the normal line, and we were able to bring him home the next day. The vet doesn't know what caused what they are calling "liver shock" and don't know how he got better.

We hadn't used frontline in years as we've had no problems with fleas etc, and Jake went from being a happy if elderly dog to a very sick dog in less that a day after treatment. I can't prove anything, but I'll never risk it again.

lovecavaliers
26th May 2011, 04:45 AM
Scary stuff. I would love to know what if anything those of you with SM afflicted cavies use to prevent fleas?

Lynn, I am planning a yearly neuro exam for Jack in June, will mention to Dr. West how Jack's symptoms increased for a few days post application. I will let you know what he says.

anniemac
26th May 2011, 04:51 AM
Scary stuff. I would love to know what if anything those of you with SM afflicted cavies use to prevent fleas?

Lynn, I am planning a yearly neuro exam for Jack in June, will mention to Dr. West how Jack's symptoms increased for a few days post application. I will let you know what he says.

I'm so sorry about Jack. I hope Dr west will be able to help.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Blondiemonster
26th May 2011, 08:30 AM
Scary stuff. I would love to know what if anything those of you with SM afflicted cavies use to prevent fleas?

Lynn, I am planning a yearly neuro exam for Jack in June, will mention to Dr. West how Jack's symptoms increased for a few days post application. I will let you know what he says.

Please let me know what he says irene! It would be very interesting...