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CVFlagg
25th June 2011, 09:23 AM
Hi All-

Recently my 11.5 year old girl has been going through some health issues. She spent several days in ICU and it was determined it was a liver issue. We did a liver biopsy and it came back as "reactive hepatophy (sp?) which translates in to "liver signs without primary liver disease" or as I refer to it, "we have no idea!" She has seen specialists and all agree that since her mood and activity level is fine and she is not showing any signs of illness we just need to monitor her to make sure that does not change.

Now, in the past few days, a new issue has developed. She will sit up, cry/whine like she is in pain and then either immediately lick/gnaw at her privates, scratch at her neck or roll her entire body around on the ground. I am writing this in the middle of the night because she is keeping me up, being completely restless. She will lay in her usual spot next to me on her pillow and then out of a total sleep jolt up, go move to another part of the bed, lay there for a minute, then come back to her spot, a couple times she has gone to the end of the bed, whined, stopped then come back. The whining has been going on for a few days but the restlessness has just begun. I have completely inspected her to see if there is anything on her body and I cannot find anything. I have also touched and pressed around seeing if I can't get her to whine/cry out so I can at least know what area is causing her pain and I get nothing. I am seriously at a loss here.

I will obviously get a vet appointment for first thing Monday but wanted to reach out and see if anyone had an ideas/suggestions of what this could be first. I spent north of $6K on the whole liver situation and am literally running out of money so any ideas to help get us on the right track with the vet would be much appreciated.

Reptigirl
25th June 2011, 01:41 PM
I'm not too familiar with issues Cavaliers can have as they age but has she been MRI scanned?


That sounds a LOT like my SM dogs. The crying out in pain for no reason, restlessness, constantly moving around at night on the bed, rolling on the floor, scratching... that is almost word for word some of the issues I had with with all of mine until we got medicine for CM/SM.

Hopefully someone else will give you some other ideas since all of mine are under 5 I really don't know what else can happen as they age.

I hope you figure it out soon. :hug: I know how upsetting it can be to helplessly watch those symptoms

Blondiemonster
25th June 2011, 02:36 PM
I agree it does sound like SM. Go see a neurologist as soon as possible.

CVFlagg
25th June 2011, 04:21 PM
I thought of SM but all this has been very sudden and appeared in the past 5 days. Didn't know how late in life SM could first show up-she is almost 12! Does it show up for the first time at that old age?

goda
25th June 2011, 05:12 PM
Hi All-

Recently my 11.5 year old girl has been going through some health issues. She spent several days in ICU and it was determined it was a liver issue. We did a liver biopsy and it came back as "reactive hepatophy (sp?) which translates in to "liver signs without primary liver disease" or as I refer to it, "we have no idea!" She has seen specialists and all agree that since her mood and activity level is fine and she is not showing any signs of illness we just need to monitor her to make sure that does not change.

Now, in the past few days, a new issue has developed. She will sit up, cry/whine like she is in pain and then either immediately lick/gnaw at her privates, scratch at her neck or roll her entire body around on the ground. I am writing this in the middle of the night because she is keeping me up, being completely restless. She will lay in her usual spot next to me on her pillow and then out of a total sleep jolt up, go move to another part of the bed, lay there for a minute, then come back to her spot, a couple times she has gone to the end of the bed, whined, stopped then come back. The whining has been going on for a few days but the restlessness has just begun. I have completely inspected her to see if there is anything on her body and I cannot find anything. I have also touched and pressed around seeing if I can't get her to whine/cry out so I can at least know what area is causing her pain and I get nothing. I am seriously at a loss here.

I will obviously get a vet appointment for first thing Monday but wanted to reach out and see if anyone had an ideas/suggestions of what this could be first. I spent north of $6K on the whole liver situation and am literally running out of money so any ideas to help get us on the right track with the vet would be much appreciated.

I agree with everyone else sounds like SM, Luka did the same thing. Try getting video of her doing it.

Margaret C
25th June 2011, 05:36 PM
I thought of SM but all this has been very sudden and appeared in the past 5 days. Didn't know how late in life SM could first show up-she is almost 12! Does it show up for the first time at that old age?

My Monty showed his first obvious symptoms at eleven. He had a daughter who first became obviously sensitive to being touched when she was thirteen.

I do however wonder whether your little girl's symptoms could be related to painful sensations caused by her known liver condition?

Reptigirl
25th June 2011, 05:46 PM
I thought of SM but all this has been very sudden and appeared in the past 5 days. Didn't know how late in life SM could first show up-she is almost 12! Does it show up for the first time at that old age?

I'm pretty sure it can show up at any age. I believe the later in life it shows up the better the chance of being well managed on medication.

My only thought is maybe she has been dealing with it for a while and as her body is getting older she is not able to deal with the pain anymore? Dogs are really good at hiding pain. Maybe the stress of aging & being in and out of the vets could be triggering it?

CVFlagg
25th June 2011, 06:13 PM
Good to know that it can show up later in life. We have a vet appointment Monday afternoon.

A friend did remind me that when she was under for the liver biopsy that they found out one of her anal glands was impacting so since one of the areas she gnaws at is her bottom after a whining episode wonder if that doesn't have something to do with it. I guess we will find out on Monday. Poor thing, I just want her to be well!

Karlin
25th June 2011, 07:26 PM
Definitely could be SM, though in this case, because of coincidence of onset of symptoms, I would tend to agree with Margaret -- I would think perhaps it is more likely to be associated with the liver issue. I would certainly ring your vet about possibly getting something to relieve her pain/discomfort? Gnawing at the area of her privates sounds more likely to have to do with pain from the liver condition. She could also have some SM (indeed this is more likely rather than less for any dog over 5-6) and perhaps the pain of her liver condition is triggering some SM signs.

Pat
25th June 2011, 08:13 PM
FWIW, I have thought all along that she does NOT have liver disease since elevated ALT with no primary disease in senior dogs is not uncommon. Your biopsy result is quite typical - I actually would not have done the biopsy in the situation that you described. Wasn't the bile acids test normal?

I actually was going to recommend that you have her anal glands checked asap - might be one ready to rupture. What you describe could be a lot of things - but it could definitely be an abscessed anal gland. If you have a 24 hour place it might be worthwhile to run her over and have someone check her anal glands. What had they done already when they found the problem?

Pat

CVFlagg
25th June 2011, 08:36 PM
Pat-her bile acid test was slightly elevated at 63. We are scheduled to recheck her blood work mid-July to see if the ALT has continued to rise. If it has, do you have any suggestions on what to look for next?

There was actually nothing going on that lead them to discover the impacted anal gland. She was under anesthesia for the biopsy and they always express glands when they are under and found it to be impacted. This was all at the specialist and not the regular vet. I am headed up to the vet right now to see if there is something going on with the glands. I'll update when we return.

**Okay, back from the vet. Both glands were totally full (she had them emptied 2 weeks ago) so the nurse emptied them out for us. One emptied normal, one was full of a thick brown discharge. Nurse said to keep our Monday afternoon appointment and discuss with the vet. Hoping the fullness was part of the problem and now that they are emptied she will be more comfortable.**