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View Full Version : Negative feelings on spaying/neutering too early



anniemac
12th July 2011, 04:57 PM
I am doing research for buying a puppy. It's going to take some time. One breeder website (this is a recommended breeder) states that the puppy will have to be spayed or neutered before leaving. I understand this because if it is a limited registration, they do not want further breeding. This breeder is extremely health focused just by looking at the questions to fill out. They will help pay for CERF, OFA, etc. tests in the future etc. but the spaying early bothers me.


I read Laura Lang's book, and it said something about recommending to spay after growth plates have finished? I think there is controversial views and I guess I would just have to talk to the breeder in questions.

What does everyone else think about this? I am just gathering information and may get an older cavalier or rescue but I want to do as much research as possible.

StillPooh
12th July 2011, 05:15 PM
If they sell you a puppy on a spay/neuter contract and you bred them anyway, you wouldn't be able to register the subsequent litter. So I don't understand this requirement. It's basically saying "give us your $2000, but we don't trust you".

I would not, personally, purchase a puppy from a breeder who made those kind of demands. I neuter at 6 months or older.

RodRussell
12th July 2011, 05:47 PM
I am doing research for buying a puppy. It's going to take some time. One breeder website (this is a recommended breeder) states that the puppy will have to be spayed or neutered before leaving. I understand this because if it is a limited registration, they do not want further breeding. This breeder is extremely health focused just by looking at the questions to fill out. They will help pay for CERF, OFA, etc. tests in the future etc. but the spaying early bothers me.


I read Laura Lang's book, and it said something about recommending to spay after growth plates have finished? I think there is controversial views and I guess I would just have to talk to the breeder in questions.

What does everyone else think about this? I am just gathering information and may get an older cavalier or rescue but I want to do as much research as possible.

Pre-mature spaying bothers me, too. If the breeder is concerned only about future breeding, there should be some other way to accommodate that concern. I would not spay until the bitch reaches adulthood.

sins
12th July 2011, 05:52 PM
It more than bothers me ...spaying a young puppy is grotesque mutilation,far worse than tail docking!
Sins

StillPooh
12th July 2011, 05:55 PM
It more than bothers me ...spaying a young puppy is grotesque mutilation,far worse than tail docking!
I don't know about the practice in other countries, but it's widely done here in animal shelters. That way people adopting young animals don't have to be relied upon to stick to their promise and not breed. There have been a number of studies showing no negative impact on the animals.

That said, I am still skeptical and would not spay/neuter an animal younger than 6 months.

sunshinekisses
12th July 2011, 11:40 PM
Well, most veterinary clinics in USA recommend spay/neuter before or at 6 months. And any reputable rescue group spay/neuters all animals regardless of age before they go into a new home, some at 8 weeks. We have a huge overpopulation problem with animals and I would agree the risk of an early spay/neuter far outweighs any complications, if even down the road.

However, my personal animals I prefer to wait until the dog has matured. But I don't feel any negativity toward a breeder that spays/neuters their pet dogs before they are placed into their new homes. Infact, I applaud their efforts to stop the greedy breeding of animals. Unregistered cavaliers can still fetch $800 in my area so not having akc papers won't stop people from breeding. And quite possibly the breeder has been burned before and is trying to not have it happen again. Pet puppies should not be bred, even for more pets.

Karlin
12th July 2011, 11:44 PM
I've seen studies on both sides. I can fully understand the shelter issue for neutering before homing at a young age. I think responsible breeders that home to responsible pet homes can accommodate a range of preferences as to when to neuter. Some will want to somewhere between 6-12 months and some like to wait until a short while thereafter when the growth plates fuse. Some breeders like to have their pet owners wait til about 1 year; some wish to have the dog neutered before it is able to reproduce.

Unwanted behaviour issues connected to being intact (especially with males) can play a big part in people giving up a dog or rehoming or reaching a frustration point where the dog ends up being left outside most of the time. Male dogs also have many times the amount of testosterone in their system before adulthood than they will have once past puberty and this too can create problems. In short there are a lot of factors that are not directly to do with getting the snips that can affect a dog's life and lifespan that are connected to whether a dog is neutered or not and the timing of this. That generally is not factored in to studies that show small amounts of plus or negative on the medical side.

There are many previous threads on this issue as well as some threads in the Library section that can be searched.

The issue about not being able to register dogs generally will not limit anyone who wants to go ahead and breed and sell unregistered puppies so for that reason -- to protect their dogs from being used for breeding -- some breeders wish to neuter early. I think this is pretty rare but I have come across a few. They are far outweighed by the grey area breeders who are more than happy to sell registered puppies at increased costs to anyone who wants to breed. :(

Karen and Ruby
12th July 2011, 11:45 PM
i personally don't like the dea of spaying a puppy, i don't know what research suggests but imo you are taking away the dogs ability to grow and mature in to a confident and mature animal.

I rescued my little one on the condition that he would be neutered with in a year. This gave him time to grow up and become a lovely young man- I actually couldnt wait until he was 18 months which was my orginal wish as his humping was out of control and it was unfair on my other girl who has health issues. I neutered him at 14 months in the end.


I understand that breeders may not want you to breed the dog but spaying a puppy is not right!

Cathy T
12th July 2011, 11:46 PM
Altering a male or female at 10 weeks or even younger is just so wrong :( I have placed dogs through rescue at younger than 6 months without spaying....I know the person adopting the dog, I form a relationship with them and I follow up with them to be sure the dog is spayed at the right time. When you purchase a puppy you should also be purchasing a relationship with that breeder. It should be a relationship of trust.

RodRussell
12th July 2011, 11:56 PM
I don't know about the practice in other countries, but it's widely done here in animal shelters. That way people adopting young animals don't have to be relied upon to stick to their promise and not breed. There have been a number of studies showing no negative impact on the animals. ...

Yeah, but there are also a lot of studies showing it is not a good thing.

RodRussell
12th July 2011, 11:59 PM
Well, most veterinary clinics in USA recommend spay/neuter before or at 6 months.

Yes, and most of them also recommend multiple and frequent vaccinations.


We have a huge overpopulation problem with animals ...

I disagree with that statement. What statistics are you referring to?

LexieAndSprinkles
13th July 2011, 12:05 AM
Our breeder required Lexie to be spayed before 6 months (she suggested 12 weeks) and so we blindly agreed. I regret it every single day. Her incision where they spayed her is NOT normal. Our new vet says it is because of the early spay :( The skin is so tight and rough, I can't see how it's NOT painful for her even now, 2 years later.

With Sprinkles, she is getting spayed on Monday (the day after her first birthday). To be fair, she's being spayed a little later than I had wanted. I had planned on spaying her somewhere between 7-8 months which was what our vet recommended but she was in training classes and there never seemed to be a "good" time. Obviously she was not around any intact males and the one time she has been in heat she was banished to our house and only taken out on a leash haha.

Furrfoot
13th July 2011, 01:06 AM
Yes, and most of them also recommend multiple and frequent vaccinations.



I disagree with that statement. What statistics are you referring to?

http://www.aspca.org/about-us/faq/pet-statistics.aspx

In Alabama, we have a big pet overpopulation issue, but in other parts of the country, it's not an issue. Our state (and a few others, I would have to look it up, but I've got to go cook dinner, lol) has started routinely transporting homeless pets to the northeast, because people up there will adopt them, and they would otherwise be put to sleep here due to overcrowding.

However, I would think that if a breeder trusts you with one of his/her puppies, they would trust you enough to abide by the spay/neuter contract (unless they have been burned in the past, but still...)? A simple solution for that would be to take an additional deposit, to be returned upon receipt of a proof of spaying (vet bill, etc.).

Soushiruiuma
13th July 2011, 01:39 AM
If they had an older puppy they had run-on, but decided to sell this would be a non-issue?

anniemac
13th July 2011, 03:49 AM
Thanks for feedback. I was curious about particular breeder since close by and on respected breeders recommended list. I have been thinking I will be going up north or traveling far, just thought I would check. The phone number is disconnected so non issue.

The questionere was very specific and I'm sure it was a way to weed out people who want to breed or get responsible people who are interested. Very impressed with questions and that they would share costs of future tests. I just wanted to talk.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

sunshinekisses
13th July 2011, 05:33 AM
I disagree with that statement. What statistics are you referring to? I tried to edit my post into something more mature, but I still don’t know how to respond. I guess I have volunteered too long for the local animal shelter and rescue to have a different view on the pet population. Did you know dogs are shipped from one state into another to find them homes in the USA, sometimes even shipped to Canada? Despite this, many healthy animals are being euthanized. Did you also know that many are purebred dogs? IMO this is a national problem and not local. If your area does not have an overpopulation problem I am very happy.

Kate H
13th July 2011, 11:48 AM
Is it an overpopulation of dogs problem, or is it a selfish consumer society problem? Are there too many dogs, or are there too many people buying dogs who then discover that bringing up a puppy and caring for a dog is time-consuming and expensive and then just dump the dog on a rescue as if it was last season's fashion item? Would there be so many dogs bred if there weren't so many thoughtless people wanting to buy them? And so many breeders who think that breeding dogs is easy money, and making money is (according to many people) the be-all and end-all of our society. So rescues that neuter young puppies are risking potential damage to the dogs (there is, for example, a proven link between earlier neutering and cruciate ligament problems) in order to try and control a human problem in society.

Our RSPCA in the UK is one of the early neutering organisations - but their title is Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and I wish they would put far more of their considerable wealth into educationg poeple on responsible animal ownership, instead of just dealing with the problems after they arise. They prosecuted an old man for allowing his labrador to get grossly overweight because he couldn't give it adequate exercise - whereas the situation would never have arisen if the RSPCA had made him aware of the help offered to older people by the Cinnamon Trust. Early neutering is a sticking plaster, but the wound continues to fester underneath.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Zumie05
14th July 2011, 06:58 AM
Yes when I was looking around for breeders I noticed the same thing. I even drove 6 hours to another state to meet puppies and with a breeder, and was so put off by the fact she wanted her puppy spayed or neutered before 6months old that I decided not to go with her. Another breeder debarked her dogs...absolutely disgusted me. These all health tested and all but no MRI scans. It sure is hard to walk away from places, but I know you will take your time and end up with an amazing pup some day.