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Kate H
13th July 2011, 10:22 AM
Dear Bet

I've started a new thread to respond to you, because what you wrote really didn't fit into the 'Not the best news' thread. You wrote: CM is Chacterized with Brains Too Big for the Skulls. That this stops the flow of the CEREBRO SPINAL ,Syrinxes Form leading onto SM. So what can all the Health Testing of Cavaliers do about this.

I think everyone would agree that health testing is an effort to control the symptoms and the spread of SM. No-one has ever claimed that health testing alone will solve the problem - though MRI scans are providing essential information for those researching into the causes of CM/SM. But the foetal tissue project is getting closer to the root of the problem - the lack of communication between brain and skull that causes CM in the first place, and why this happens. So besides advocating your own particular solution to the plight of Cavaliers (new genetic sources), I hope you are also encouraging everyone you know to contribute to and support the foetal tissue project (and all the other research projects as well, of course).

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Bet
13th July 2011, 10:36 AM
Dear Bet

I've started a new thread to respond to you, because what you wrote really didn't fit into the 'Not the best news' thread. You wrote: CM is Chacterized with Brains Too Big for the Skulls. That this stops the flow of the CEREBRO SPINAL ,Syrinxes Form leading onto SM. So what can all the Health Testing of Cavaliers do about this.

I think everyone would agree that health testing is an effort to control the symptoms and the spread of SM. No-one has ever claimed that health testing alone will solve the problem - though MRI scans are providing essential information for those researching into the causes of CM/SM. But the foetal tissue project is getting closer to the root of the problem - the lack of communication between brain and skull that causes CM in the first place, and why this happens. So besides advocating your own particular solution to the plight of Cavaliers (new genetic sources), I hope you are also encouraging everyone you know to contribute to and support the foetal tissue project (and all the other research projects as well, of course).

Kate, Oliver and Aled


Yes Kate, Why I Posted my Post on the Not the Best News thread, was just to show that even get a Cavalier Breeder from a Cavalier who Health Tests will not be the answer to Cavalier Health Problems. The latest Veterinary Paper has just mentioned that Selective Cavalier Breeding will not help much because SM is such a Complex Problem involving several or many Genes

As I have mentioned before the Foetal Tissue Research ,the Whelps Researched ,85 ,all had CM.

So if about 90% of Cavaliers have CM ,not my words but those of the Researchers, how can the Cavalier Breed Survive unless Fresh Genes are introduced to Cavalier Breeding Programs.


Bet

mommytoClaire
13th July 2011, 11:50 PM
Bet, and how might fresh genes be introduced? I'm confused on your thoughts to the answer to this very complicated and tragic situation.

Bet
14th July 2011, 10:00 AM
Bet, and how might fresh genes be introduced? I'm confused on your thoughts to the answer to this very complicated and tragic situation.


SUPPORTING RESEARCH


May I answer the above Post .


Because the Condition is so Complex and so Prevelant ,there are likely that Several /Many Genes are involved ,there are no as yet ,nor will there seem to be for ages DNA TESTS on the market for a Complex Condition

Other Options ,as a matter of Urgency probably will now have to be considered to save the Cavalier Breed

One Option could be Out Crossing Cavaliers with another Breed ,I believe this is being considered at the Moment,I am trying to find out more about this.

Another Option is to Explore the Non-Show Population.


This means actively searching out some of those Pet Bred/Puppy farm Cavaliers that may just be Clear of SM because they are totally Unrelated to the Show Bred Population of Cavaliers .

Many ,Many Show Cavaliers so often go back to the Same Cavaliers. Just look at Cavalier pedigrees

For us folk who Love the Cavalier Breed and don't want to let it go ,then all Options should be being Explored ,however Unacceptible some of those Options might be to some.

I t is not just me who is saying that the Fresh Genes have to be being brought into the Cavalier Breed to save it,as I have said ,the Latest Veterinary Paper has said that Selective Cavalier Breeding could now be difficult to eliminate the Genetic Risks factors for SM in Cavaliers.

In another Veterinary Paper Published in 2010 , Lewis and Others also said that the Heritability of SM in Cavaliers has been shown to be Complex and that the Prevallance of the Determinant Genes is therefore likely to be high

I think that the Cavalier World is now starting to realize what a Serious Plight our Cavaliers are in and that more needs to be being done by using other Options.

Bet

mommytoClaire
15th July 2011, 01:05 AM
Okay, thanks, that answers my question. I pray something's will start to change.

Kate H
15th July 2011, 01:18 PM
But Bet, the researchers saying 'Selective Cavalier breeding could now be difficult to eliminate the genetic risks factors for SM in Cavaliers' is not at all the same as saying that we need fresh genes, if by 'fresh' you mean 'new'. The genetic code for Cavaliers (as for any dogs) is a given - you can't import different genes, because all Cavaliers have the same genetic code, otherwise they wouldn't be Cavaliers. The genes that produce CM/SM are the same genes that all Cavaliers have, but they have become corrupted, mutated or are not functioning properly. Until you have identified the gene that is producing the problem - and why it is doing it - you can't start looking for the same gene in its original (not fresh, not new - same old gene) form. And if only an estimated 10% of Cavaliers might possibly have the 'undamaged' gene, given the huge population, taking that path to solve the CM/SM problem is going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack; and close inbreeding of that sort could produce another health problem. Gene therapy (ie, repairing the bad gene, or substituting some synthetic alternative) is presumably a possible way forward, but that is very much in its infancy in humans, let alone dogs. An outcross might be an answer, but that takes time, dedication and a great deal of money, and we might lose what makes Cavaliers so special in the process, so would it be worth it?

Anyone who knows more about genetic research than I do (not difficult!) can now pick holes in this post!!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

anniemac
15th July 2011, 01:56 PM
Kate,

I think you had an excellent reply. I will just add that this takes time and if there was ever any outcrossing which I don't think would be an answer especially now, that will have to be done with researchers, breeders, and a timely process. Since a lot of other toy breeds have CM/SM, it would be too soon to start that. Just my opinion.

Bet
15th July 2011, 07:27 PM
But Bet, the researchers saying 'Selective Cavalier breeding could now be difficult to eliminate the genetic risks factors for SM in Cavaliers' is not at all the same as saying that we need fresh genes, if by 'fresh' you mean 'new'. The genetic code for Cavaliers (as for any dogs) is a given - you can't import different genes, because all Cavaliers have the same genetic code, otherwise they wouldn't be Cavaliers. The genes that produce CM/SM are the same genes that all Cavaliers have, but they have become corrupted, mutated or are not functioning properly. Until you have identified the gene that is producing the problem - and why it is doing it - you can't start looking for the same gene in its original (not fresh, not new - same old gene) form. And if only an estimated 10% of Cavaliers might possibly have the 'undamaged' gene, given the huge population, taking that path to solve the CM/SM problem is going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack; and close inbreeding of that sort could produce another health problem. Gene therapy (ie, repairing the bad gene, or substituting some synthetic alternative) is presumably a possible way forward, but that is very much in its infancy in humans, let alone dogs. An outcross might be an answer, but that takes time, dedication and a great deal of money, and we might lose what makes Cavaliers so special in the process, so would it be worth it?

Anyone who knows more about genetic research than I do (not difficult!) can now pick holes in this post!!

Kate, Oliver and Aled


SUPPORTING RESEARCH


Any Option would be worth while to give our Cavaliers Healther ,Longer Lives free from Suffering the Pain of CM/SM and on Medication for years for MVD .


Bet