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View Full Version : Canceling our visit with other Cavs...for a sad reason



GraciesMom
14th July 2011, 05:13 PM
We were set today to visit a couple of young Cavs who come from MRI tested parents, but Gracie has been showing more troubling signs that she may have an inner ear issue, SM or PSOM. Yesterday's activity was particularly noticeable. I am too tired now to get into details on what we observed but it is troubling. Will try to get video but most often happens on walks. Unlike some, she is badly trying to get at BOTH sides to scratch, not one-sided issue. And shaking head throughout the day like she is trying to clear it. She clearly dreads going out with harness or collar on. As much as I hated to do it, we cancelled our trip and am spending today getting ready for vet visit and medical waiver forms signed for insurance. I think that I just need to know for sure what we are dealing with and get on with it. If not serious then we can look for a second dog later.When I have more energy, I will post more info but just letting all know that this is why I feel so strongly now about seeking out the best breeders. And because of my initial lack of knowledge on the breed's situation, I have a sweet angel who likely has one or more of the dreaded conditions. I have suspected this in my gut for a while but still emotionally devastating when it is upon you. I will say how impressed I was when I cancelled the visit and breeder took time to share very helpful resources in USA for neurological disorders. She also told me that a dog would always be there for us...just to call. She acknowledges the reality we are facing with Cavs in the USA. More later when I have the strength...

Margaret C
14th July 2011, 05:26 PM
So sorry to read this.

Fingers crossed for Gracie.

GraciesMom
14th July 2011, 05:29 PM
Thanks Margaret.....not sure why a sudden show of symptoms but can't put this off

Nicki
14th July 2011, 05:33 PM
So sad to hear this - our thoughts are with you.

Please check her ears though and make sure there is nothing going on there that might be causing irritation?

Spangly
14th July 2011, 05:47 PM
My heart goes out to you Debra. :(

Sydneys Mom
14th July 2011, 06:05 PM
Poor Gracie. So sorry to hear this Debra. I can hear the fear in your post. I'll be sending good wishes and prayers to you and Gracie. You're doing a wonderful job taking care of her right now and putting her first. Good luck and let us know how she's getting on.

Zumie05
14th July 2011, 06:12 PM
Oh Gracie :(!! Are her ears pretty clean:huh:? She may just have an ear infection or something stuck in her ears. Fingers crossed for you guys:xfngr:

anniemac
14th July 2011, 06:14 PM
Debra,

I'm so sorry! I will call you in a bit. I would ask to get a referral to nc state. Since they are a vet school, you may not even need a referral. Ask to see dr. Olby. I heard some not great things from 2 people who probably saw an intern or something. My friend (on forum) recently went because her cavalier corey had surgery with dr. Shores. She had a follow up mri and I don't believe it was dr. Olby but really liked the neurologist. I will call you with details.

The reason I think you should see a neurologist is because vets are not going to know much about neurological conditions. Since you live close to nc state, I think that's your best option.

If you need me to go with you or anything, I'm here!

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

anniemac
14th July 2011, 06:17 PM
Actually, you may want to see vet to rule out mites, but I know you have been concerned before

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GraciesMom
14th July 2011, 06:21 PM
Am doing better. I think I can get to NC State without referral. We are going to at least have a good look in her ears today at 4 pm with regular vet. This has come on fairly sudden so not sure what is up. It does seem unlikely but feel we have to rule it out first. if nothing visible then will get to neurologist. I greatly appreciate the recommendation. In reading over posts here, this seems more like PSOM but who knows???

Desrae
14th July 2011, 08:00 PM
Am doing better. I think I can get to NC State without referral. We are going to at least have a good look in her ears today at 4 pm with regular vet. This has come on fairly sudden so not sure what is up. It does seem unlikely but feel we have to rule it out first. if nothing visible then will get to neurologist. I greatly appreciate the recommendation. In reading over posts here, this seems more like PSOM but who knows???

I do hope Gracie is ok. But, if this has come on very sudden, it could be ear mites. Bobby and Belle had this before and they used to keep us up at night with their scratching and overall discomfort. We got them some drops and had a dosing routine for about two weeks I think, but t cleared up and they were happy!
We're thinking of and praying for you.:xfngr:

Furrfoot
14th July 2011, 08:50 PM
(((hugs))) and prayers for something with a relatively simple fix...

Sabby
14th July 2011, 10:33 PM
My heart goes out to you. Hope this is something simple.

GraciesMom
14th July 2011, 10:41 PM
He did find a moderate ear inflammation with yeast... and yeast in eye discharge too. He Said Gracie also sounded a bit congested....and I agree. So we do have new ear cleanser and ear drop meds called Mometamax. He also wants her to take an allergy med that has prednisone in it and am not so crazy about that. It is called Temeril-P. Any thoughts on that med??Anyway...he did see a bit of her head shaking and scratching. His thoughts are to see where we are in about a week. He is familiar with SM and PSOM, but not totally. He did say he was not sure the treatments would fully address her symptoms, but give it a try. He did add that he knows a vet who has treated these conditions and would talk to him. I think he said it was Dr. Olby at NC State University. Karlin, you may want to move this to Health and Diet since we have now moved on to treatment.That is all I can report for now. Thanks for your support and knowledge.

mommytoClaire
15th July 2011, 01:00 AM
Debra, please look up Mometamax. I fear it doesn't have the best reputation, and has some history tied to deafness. My Nash, Claire's brother (non Cav) had a history of bad ear infections for many years. All yeast. We tried it all and I wish I had known about one particular product many years ago, because I blame his nearly total deafness on some of the Meds we were on (sadly, Nash went to the bridge 2 weeks ago tomorrow, cancer, and I'm still having a hard time talking about it)Anyway, I digress. I started him on a product called Zymox. I got it from Entirely Pets. It was like a miracle. I had the best results with the one with hydrocortisone in it. Very reasonably priced too. I'll post a link in a bit. I heard about it through other friends who have used it for years.My vet now carries it. I had suggested it, and they looked into it and they love it.

GraciesMom
15th July 2011, 02:31 AM
Wow!!! Thank you for warning! We have not applied it yet. Will go do research now. I have gotten great stuff from Entirely Pets, including probiotics.
Debra, please look up Mometamax. I fear it doesn't have the best reputation, and has some history tied to deafness. My Nash, Claire's brother (non Cav) had a history of bad ear infections for many years. All yeast. We tried it all and I wish I had known about one particular product many years ago, because I blame his nearly total deafness on some of the Meds we were on (sadly, Nash went to the bridge 2 weeks ago tomorrow, cancer, and I'm still having a hard time talking about it)Anyway, I digress. I started him on a product called Zymox. I got it from Entirely Pets. It was like a miracle. I had the best results with the one with hydrocortisone in it. Very reasonably priced too. I'll post a link in a bit. I heard about it through other friends who have used it for years.My vet now carries it. I had suggested it, and they looked into it and they love it.

Zumie05
15th July 2011, 02:52 AM
He did find a moderate ear inflammation with yeast... and yeast in eye discharge too.

By any chance do Gracies eye tears smell weird? I am a bit worried about Coco's eyes now because when they do get weepy it is clear, but smells kinda funky.

mommytoClaire
15th July 2011, 03:18 AM
Want to apologize for my posts. Seems that these days, though I use paragraphs, and double spacing after periods at end of sentences, none show in the final posts. Thinking it has something to do with the posts being done on my IPad. But, didn't notice this issue till a couple weeks ago when upgrades were done on this website.

Jay
15th July 2011, 05:55 AM
He also wants her to take an allergy med that has prednisone in it and am not so crazy about that. It is called Temeril-P. Any thoughts on that med?

My mom's dog has taken Temeril-P on a short term basis for itching from allergies. He has not had any ill effects. It's supposed to be a low dose of prednisone.

I hope Gracie feels better really soon.

J.

Jasper and Holly
15th July 2011, 08:16 AM
Debra I hope Gracie is ok and she gets some relief soon. It must be very worrying for you. Jasper and Holly send big hugs!

GraciesMom
15th July 2011, 02:41 PM
By any chance do Gracies eye tears smell weird? I am a bit worried about Coco's eyes now because when they do get weepy it is clear, but smells kinda funky.

Vet said that is same thing in her ears... yeast. The high humidity here past 4 weeks is likely a factor along with the resulting fungus that grows on everything in the summer. If only affecting her eyes, I think there are drops you can get for just that.

Karlin
15th July 2011, 04:13 PM
Really sorry you are in this difficult situation of not knowing what is going on.

I think I'd be inclined to guess the sudden things and head shaking are maybe more likely to be some other cause than SM or PSOM unless you have been seeing things going on for a while and this isa slow build to this behaviour. That kind of behaviour is pretty typical of ear mites if it just suddenly starts up.

At the same time, if there are issues on walks then you may be looking at SM or PSOM. If the scratching is air scratching it is unlikely to be PSOM. Probably less likely to be PSOm with scratching on both sides as well. Perhaps just CM on its own.

The difficulty is it could be a transient ear issue but an underlying problems with something neurological or PSOM. Only an MRI will give you some idea. However if the vet turns up something to do with her ears I'd treat that and hold off on a neurologist until you see if other symptoms remain persistent or increase.

It is very, very frustrating that the neurological issues are so much harder and costly to diagnose and that symptoms are often so close to other simpler health issues. Best of luck with the vet.

GraciesMom
15th July 2011, 05:21 PM
It is clear that the vet himself is not sure this is all about the ear infection and allergies. We are going to treat that first and see if it helps the other symptoms or not. Gracie had a period of this early on... at 8 months or so. Mostly scratching on walks, but no major head shaking. She got better and very little scratching on walks for months until this past week. There are times I wish I had the money to just get the MRI done anyway for peace of mind.... but going to try this route first. I also will go to a different vet if this does not work out... she is much more knowledgeable about Cav issues generally and has better connections with vets at North Carolina State University and other specialists.


Really sorry you are in this difficult situation of not knowing what is going on.

I think I'd be inclined to guess the sudden things and head shaking are maybe more likely to be some other cause than SM or PSOM unless you have been seeing things going on for a while and this isa slow build to this behaviour. That kind of behaviour is pretty typical of ear mites if it just suddenly starts up.

At the same time, if there are issues on walks then you may be looking at SM or PSOM. If the scratching is air scratching it is unlikely to be PSOM. Probably less likely to be PSOm with scratching on both sides as well. Perhaps just CM on its own.

The difficulty is it could be a transient ear issue but an underlying problems with something neurological or PSOM. Only an MRI will give you some idea. However if the vet turns up something to do with her ears I'd treat that and hold off on a neurologist until you see if other symptoms remain persistent or increase.

It is very, very frustrating that the neurological issues are so much harder and costly to diagnose and that symptoms are often so close to other simpler health issues. Best of luck with the vet.

LoneStar Hoopy
15th July 2011, 10:59 PM
He did find a moderate ear inflammation with yeast... and yeast in eye discharge too. He Said Gracie also sounded a bit congested....and I agree. So we do have new ear cleanser and ear drop meds called Mometamax. He also wants her to take an allergy med that has prednisone in it and am not so crazy about that. It is called Temeril-P. Any thoughts on that med??Anyway...he did see a bit of her head shaking and scratching. His thoughts are to see where we are in about a week. He is familiar with SM and PSOM, but not totally. He did say he was not sure the treatments would fully address her symptoms, but give it a try. He did add that he knows a vet who has treated these conditions and would talk to him. I think he said it was Dr. Olby at NC State University. Karlin, you may want to move this to Health and Diet since we have now moved on to treatment.That is all I can report for now. Thanks for your support and knowledge.

I hope this has all been down to her ears. At our clinic they are now introducing a new ear med called Posatex. It seems to be getting better results with not as many dogs needing refills. Temaril-P is a fantastic rx that is on high demand during allergy season, we are currently on back order of 4 months at out clinic, so Bobo is taking 1/2 tab pred twice daily & 25mg benadryl. I'm not for giving lots of meds but I do prefer the Temaril-P!

Hope it all goes well.

Blondiemonster
16th July 2011, 02:22 PM
Mine does this occasionally. Scratching at both ears and cinstantly shaking her head especially right after as if trying to clear somrmething. It cones out of nowhere and can last a few days. She does have psom. Hope u find out soon... I hate to hear this news.

mommytoClaire
19th July 2011, 03:19 AM
Did you decide to go ahead and try the Momentamax this time around? But do think about the Zymox for the future. I know you will be happy with it.Keeping you and Gracie in my prayers. Won't your insurance pay for the MRI?

GraciesMom
19th July 2011, 08:27 PM
Did you decide to go ahead and try the Momentamax this time around? But do think about the Zymox for the future. I know you will be happy with it.Keeping you and Gracie in my prayers. Won't your insurance pay for the MRI?

Hey...I am trying the Mometamax just for this round but have ordered Zymox. It should arrive this week. I do think the Mometamax is a VERY bad idea for any dogs older than 5 years based on what I was reading after you brought this up. Looks like worst issues have happened with older dogs, like my neighbor's pug.

So far, her symptoms are much better, but somewhat hard to tell with the other medication making her so sleepy. But so far, much less scratching. I also found a well hidden mat under one front leg that I clearly had missed and cut it out. I also ordered some Thorn It to help with red itchy area around her mouth. She gets that after she goes outside and sniffs in the grass. Not sure what it is causing it, but something is!!!!

If her symptoms do not improve significantly and stay improved, we will look at neurological referral to local vet school, which is very well respected. I have 2 good names already. Insurance would pay for MRI but only if a neurologist orders it. So that may be down the road but so far the allergy and ear treatments eliminating some symptoms that worried me. Thanks so much for checking on her.

Cathy T
23rd July 2011, 04:27 PM
Just now seeing this.....temaril-P is excellent in the short term. I've used it on Jake (flea allergy dermatitis) but prefer to address the origin of the problem (fleas) rather than just the behavior (scratching). The Temaril-P stops the scratching so we nip the problem before it gets to hot spots. I've learned now that when he starts scratching we need to address the skin right away.

As far as the ears...I've been using K-9 liquid health ear solution for about 3 years now and with 3 dogs, knock on wood, haven't had an ear issue in those 3 years. I clean the ears with the solution about every 10 days.