View Full Version : Not quite sure what is up with my little creature....?
9th August 2011, 12:17 PM
My little Indy is just 2.5 months old.
I've had him for about 2 weeks.
For a few days everything was okay, and then I noticed he was scooting his butt on the floor. I took him to the vet thinking maybe he had worms (although he had had a checkup about 2 weeks prior and was negative for worms) and they told me they weren't 100% sure why he was doing it but they excreted his anal sacs since that was the likely culprit.
The next day he started having diarrhea in the afternoon. Every 20 min pooping and then sleeping, so I took him back to the vet.
They said he might have a virus or something and they gave me medical food and amoxy-clav which is an antibiotic.
Later that night he threw up the medical food, but the next day he seemed to be 100% and during this whole ordeal he was still playful and seemingly happy.
When the medical food ran out, I gradually integrated him to a new type of food (From Bento-Kronen to Hills which is what the vet recommended), and although he wasnt eating the recommended amount he seemed to eat enough and be happy and playful. He probably has 2 more doses of the antiobiotic left, one for tonight and one for tomorrow.
This morning everything was fine, but this afternoon he woke up from a nap and promptly regurgitated some liquid/solid mixture. He didn't even stand up, just sorta leaned over and regurgitated and then kinda went back to sleep. I woke him a bit more to clean it up. Then he had a part-solid, part-diarrhea bowel movement. I have given him very very small bites of two types of treats because I have been trying to teach him his name, but he's eaten them for a few days no problem, so I'm not sure this is an issue.
I cleaned that up and I even wiped his bum a bit (I have wondered if the butt-scooting thing is just simply irritation or itchiness rather than worms or anal glands).
A few minutes later he made lots of squeals as though he were hurt, then stopped.
I checked him to see if everything was alright, and he seems just fine.
He licked my hand, and seems relatively normal now....but the regurgitation/partial diarrhea/unprompted squealing have left me feeling very unsettled.
I called the vet again and they said to monitor him, give him a mixture of his old food (Bento-Kronen) and his new food (Hills), make sure he drinks enough, and to let them know if I want to come back in for a checkup (My checkups are free so maybe I'll do it no matter what).
I'm just not sure what's going on!
Maybe none of this is related or maybe it's all related?
He has had 2 out of 3 of his major vaccinations, kennel cough, and de-worming medication.
Can anyone help shed some light on all of this or offer me some advice?
I don't want to keep switching up his food, but I think since he seemed to enjoy his old food it might not be a bad idea to go back to it (he's been with the new stuff for about 5 days)....is this even a food related issue?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts, advice, and (hopefully) encouragement?
Scared in Tel-Aviv,
9th August 2011, 01:27 PM
I should add that he is playing normally, does have an appetite (despite not really enjoying his new food as best I can tell), and drinks plenty of water.
He has never been in contact with any other dog or ever been outside (although I do take him with me on the bus to work in the morning and back home in the afternoon).
9th August 2011, 01:36 PM
Sorry to hear about this, what a shame when you should be enjoying bonding with your new puppy. Have you been in contact with his breeder to make sure his litter mates are not poorly too? Some things take a few weeks to come out.
The fact that he is playing and has a good appetite is a realy good sign, makes it sound like it is more likely to be a digestive upset than something serious.
It is of course possible that he has picked up something from your bus journeys, people can carry bacteria/viruses on their clothing etc, but you do have to expose them to the outside world as the immune system is like a muscle, it has to be worked to gain full strength.
Obviously do not put him down on the floor anywhere where other dogs may have toiletted.
Following a digestive upset, we give something really bland like boiled chicken [no skin] and rice or white pasta, just very small amounts and gradually build up. We would also use a probiotic paste from the vets or online from somewhere like http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-and-cat-supplements-pet-diarrhoea-remedies-c-5_145/diarsanyl-plus-cat-dog-anti-diarrhoea-oral-paste-p-2811
You could also give a teaspoon of natural yogurt [bio live yogurt] this may be more easily available.
The squealing may have been that his belly is very sore :(
You would be wise to go for another check up if you're still not happy, or at least speak to the vet.
Unfortunately we do not have a very high opinion of Hills dog food - many vets do recommend it though. if you search you will find lots of discussion about the merits of various foods, we all have our different opinions!
Make sure he is fully fit before he is given the last vaccination, as that is quite a strain on their immune system.
We do hope he will be much better soon.
9th August 2011, 01:47 PM
Thanks for your quick reply.
He's not on a collar/leash even. I carry him in a clothe bag on the bus. He isn't exposed to the people on the bus and my ride is less than 10 minutes.
I have read about Hills and many other brands. My vet said that's what he gives to his dog, so I went with it. I'm not sure what is best, but the outrageous amount of conflicting opinion online leads me to believe that there is a very high-end, a very low-end, and everything else is about the same. I'm sure Hills isn't a cure-all, or even the absolute best out there, but it should certainly have enough protein to cover his needs. The same is true with Bento-Kronen, except the pieces of kibble are smaller and maybe that helps him.
I'm hesitant to switch his food, since in the past month he's gone from his mother's milk, to Bento-Kronen, to catfood (the wet food the doctor recommended was actually for cats since he wasn't big enough to have the medical dogfood yet), to Hills.
After all that, I think maybe it's best to be consistent and not introduce yoghurt, chicken, rice, or pasta, but maybe that is the wrong frame of mind?
If his tummy is upset, maybe it's from all the food switches...
If it's just a digestive issue, then that's okay with me...I don't mind cleaning up the messes and that sounds like the kind of thing that will pass.
My fear is that he's got a virus, bacteria, worms, or something I've never even heard of!
That's what scares me!!
I have contacted the breeder (she's a sweetheart) and there have been no other reported issues.
He is still scooting his butt a little on the floor, but there doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason to it....one day I won't see him do it at all, then he'll do it for about 5 seconds, and then not again, and other times he'll do a few quick cycles like that. He tries to scratch there and can't, and he kinda bites his hind leg (although not anything that seems painful, just normal dog-biting-himself-a-bit kind of thing)....
I think it's because it's itchy for him, but maybe he has issues with his anal glands...
I appreciate your quick reply!
9th August 2011, 02:10 PM
I agree with Nicki that most likely you are looking at some sort of mild digestive upset and that it is nothing too much to worry about. This kind of thing is actually pretty common with puppies, and I think probably most of us have had some digestive upset when a puppy 1st arrives into a new home, due to all the changes and stress. As Nicki says, the fact that he is playing and seems happy is a good sign overall.I
I would actually just keep feeding small amounts of the puppy food you started with rather than trying to switch to something new, at least for now. You might also find some pieces of boiled chicken would go down well and that is a quite bland and easily digested food. The paste Nicki recommends is a very handy thing to have around the house–I will use it when my dogs get mild gastroenteritis and it generally tightens up their stools and settles their stomachs right away and has the advantage of not being a medication that, say, kills off gut bacteria and so on. It is just something that can be purchased over-the-counter and definitely helps their tummies.
The scooting is something that is quite common in the breed for reasons I don't think anyone really understands–they definitely scoot more than any other breed I have come across. With a puppy, it is likely to be worms which can make them itchy and take a while for them to completely expel. Also, with puppies you tend to need to give wormers about 2 weeks apart because just giving it once doesn't tend to kill off the worms and almost every puppy will have a warm load from birth due to the cycle of worms–they get passed from the mother to the puppies. Another consideration may be something like rabbit mites or fleas. These are both common on puppies and the fact that he is whipping around to try to scratch at his hindquarters is often a sign of one of these problems and the scooting may be just another way he is trying to get at the itchiness. A vet needs to do a skin scrape generally to spot these mites but they typically will congregate down around the tail end of the dog.
I am not a big fan of Hills but I would generally agree with your point that with foods, there is just massive debate–there is just an extraordinary and sometimes quite silly politics around dog food! I also agree with your opinion that there is very high and very low-end end, then lots in between. I definitely avoid the low-end but I also cannot see any point in paying some of the premium prices for foods that have all sorts of ridiculously exotic ingredients–as if these are more “natural” and closer to what wolves eat (yeah, right). I like to go for a good basic dry food in the medium price range with relatively simple ingredients, no additives or colorants. There are plenty of great choices as well amongst tinned foods, commercial raw diets, and of course there are plenty that you can make at home, either raw or cooked diets. Nicki actually produced a great fundraiser CD available here or through www.cavaliermatters.com (http://www.cavaliermatters.com), full of recipes for homemade foods and treats! I tend to feed my own dogs a mix of good commercial dry food and either a quality tinned food or a homemade cooked diet. They get lots of variety–that is something I think is important, along with bringing in “real” food rather than just commercial foods.
I would just keep a close eye on your puppy and see how he does –any sign of change or difficulty, and I would bring him back to the vet. You might ask if he needs a repeat bout of worm medication. Worms can make puppies scoot as well as vomit.
9th August 2011, 02:59 PM
He will get the 2nd bout of worm meds on the 15th. It's already set for him in my fridge.
I think you're probably right about the food....I'm still going to try to find the Bento-Kronen that he liked so much before I switched him to Hills.
(I wrote a long note about this stuff explaining everything and it got cut off, but the two sentences above are the jist.)
9th August 2011, 03:17 PM
Sorry to hear Indy is not feeling so well.
I am wondering if she regurgitated after receiving the amoxy-clav as it is a penicillin which in humans can cause vomiting and diarrhea. Perhaps this could have further aggrevated her intestinal issues.
9th August 2011, 08:25 PM
Well, I'm not sure.
He's taken it for about a week twice a day, and this problem didn't arise until today...
He's been a happy dog other than that one incident...maybe he ate something he shouldn't have when I wasn't looking?
Meanwhile, he was a happy dog the rest of the day...hungry, playful, drank lots and lots of water (because itis so hot here and I don't have air conditioning).
I bought the first type of food he was eating (Bento), and they said to mix it with the newer food (Hills), but he literally *only* ate the Bento! So much for mixing them....
Tomorrow I'll keep trying to mix the two and we'll see how it goes, but my guess is that he would probably be better off just being given the food he likes and wants to eat.
I love him very VERY much.
He is my first dog.
10th August 2011, 08:05 AM
Just a quick update--
He seems just fine today...he was very playful when I woke up, and ate just fine when I got to work (he comes with me to work, and doesn't seem to like to eat until we get there).
Alls well that ends well I suppose.
I'll update if I see any more issues and I will monitor him closely.
Thank you all for your concern!
10th August 2011, 01:53 PM
Oh, I'm glad to hear he is doing better! You've taken the right approach all through this–keeping a close eye on things, talking to your vet, and of course asking for some advice here! :lol:
With a house full of dogs and cats over the years, I've found that they all tend to get soft stools/the runs now and then, and also to vomit for no apparent reason from time to time (or simply in response to being fed a particular treat or food item). I would always keep an eye on any dog or cat that does this once or twice; but the minute it becomes a consistent behavior and/or the animal seems in any way uncomfortable or listless, that's the time to get them straight to the vet. That's especially true of puppies, because their immune systems are so immature and they can very quickly become seriously ill. So I think you found just the right balance of concern and careful monitoring, and think you will probably find that things just settle down. I know a lot of us here over the years have found that puppies and young dogs can have G.I. issues on and off during their 1st year, in then they almost always seem to go away, so it isn't unusual to have little bouts like this.
10th August 2011, 05:36 PM
I think more than anything I just need to be reassured.
So I appreciate you taking your time to help reassure me.
As a side note, he has gobbled up 3 20gram meals of the Bento-Kronen food today.
I'm so happy he likes it and will eat it up.
10th August 2011, 06:03 PM
So pleased the wee fellow has recovered - he is lucky to have such a caring and devoted guardian cl*p
11th August 2011, 11:57 AM
I'm lucky I can bring him to work, so I can monitor him all the time.
If I just came home and found some vomit and diarrhea and didn't know what happened I dont' know how I would have reacted.
17th August 2011, 07:59 AM
Glad to hear your pup is doing better! And I'm also glad to hear that scooting is common in this breed! My 5 month old pup does it often. Usually before or after she pees/poops. Is your dog paper/pee pad trained? Mine is and I keep wondering if the scooting is connected to that (in addition to food, as you have been wondering). When we had her trained to go exclusively outside she scooted far less (I thought this could be because she had a chance to "wipe" on the grass and possibly even that eating a bit of grass keeps things clean inside).
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