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Brian M
31st August 2011, 10:33 AM
Hi

While Daisy was with the Cavalier Club Cardiologist Mr Swift last week having her heart check he advised supplementing
with a good Omega 3 ,which we already do thank to Pat's advice previous advise,but he also stressed that the Omega 3 should contain
certain levels of DHA/EPA .He is going to check it for me and email when found .The Omega 3 I currently give the girls
is from Puritans Pride and has high levels of DHA/EPA .

http://www.puritanspride.co.uk/omega-3-products-cid-128/double-strength-omega-3-fish-oil-1200-mg-sku-017132.html


This is a good article re Cavalier Heart disease its causes and treament.

http://www.2ndchance.info/conghtfaildog.htm


And this is interesting regarding nutritional needs .

http://dels-old.nas.edu/banr/briefs/dog_nutrition_final.pdf

Kate H
31st August 2011, 11:38 AM
Hi Brian

When I emailed Simon with a query about Omega 3, he recommended Cardigard. I googled it to discover its levels of DHA/EPA, blinked at the price and then worked out that 2 x 1000mg capsules would give more or less the same amounts (a fraction less, but still high doses) for about a quarter of the price from Simply Supplements. 3 months' supply for both dogs costs just under £10. The capsules are big but both my boys wolf them down with their supper with no problem. Capsules seem to be the best way of giving Omega 3 - apparently the oil starts deteriorating as soon as you open the bottle.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Brian M
31st August 2011, 12:03 PM
Hello Kate

Agreed ,he doesnt say that the quantities have to be in one capsule ,his words were .Cardiguard and Gomega are veterinary supplements
with the correct balance of EPA and DHA and that a diet that is moderately restricted in sodium and supplemented with Omega 3 fatty
acids may help reduce progression .

Davecav
31st August 2011, 01:29 PM
I was thinking about starting Martha on Salmon fish oil as people say good things about this, and it has omega 3 in it. What do people think? Especially as you Kate say that the oil can start to deteriorate once the bottle is opened. I guess this will apply to the salmon fish oil as well?

I feel it's a minefield, as I've been told that buying anything in capsules is much more expensive.

Brian M
31st August 2011, 01:59 PM
Hi

Davecav have a look at http://www.healthspark.co.uk/omega-3-1000mg.html?gclid=CJTU1bTK-aoCFQVTfAodAlJhLQ

they contain 300 mg in one capsule which is acceptable.

sunshinekisses
31st August 2011, 04:52 PM
The fish oil debate makes my head spin....it seems everything I read has a different opinion. I just decided to give human grade capsule. I thought this was better than nothing and it was easy for me. :confused:

ByFloSin
31st August 2011, 08:21 PM
The fish oil debate makes my head spin....it seems everything I read has a different opinion. I just decided to give human grade capsule. I thought this was better than nothing and it was easy for me. :confused:

Mine too. I have given one 1000 mg capsule to each of mine except Holly for years. Four out of my five have cardio tested clear hearts, ranging in age from almost 3 years to 5. The exception is Rebel, who has a discernable murmour, not requiring treatment and he is almost 9 years old. I usuallly buy mine from ZipVit when they have a 2 for the price of 1 offer, making them very innexpensive.

Vitamin e is good for hearts too. I give one 259g capsule daily to each dog.Because of her illness Holly has 1 vitamin e capsule a day and 5 mgs of Yumega Oil on her food each night, but no Omega 3.

waldor
31st August 2011, 08:56 PM
I, too, have read elsewhere (here in the U.S.) that the fish oil deteriorates as soon as the bottle is opened. I use the gelcaps for Sophie, pierce them, and squeeze the oil on to her food. She won't eat the capsule, while our last dog would.

Brian M
31st August 2011, 09:15 PM
Hi

Mr Swifts advice was Omega3 with a high level of EPA and DHA the exact levels he is going to advise but probaly a minimum of 300mg .No mention
of Omega 6 nor Cod liver Oil so a lot of what we give is not up to standard .I am also waiting his further advice on giving dogs frusemide if they suffer
from SM and then go on to develop a heart murmur as he thinks then frusemide may not be the best option due to its stimulation of certain hormones
which are counter productive to a healthy heart ,on this fact he is going to ask other cardiologists opinions both in the UK and the USA then advise me of the concensus.

Kate H
1st September 2011, 11:40 AM
Davecav wrote: I've been told that buying anything in capsules is much more expensive.

I've found the opposite in the UK. It's worth looking at the online pharmacies such as Simply Supplements, Hyperdrug and the one Brian mentioned. For one dog you'd probably get a 6-months' supply for around £10. Also have a look at Cardigard and note its levels of DPA/EHA, then see which of the human pills will replicate this for a lot less cost (Cardigard for my two would have cost over £20 for 2 months, whereas Simply Supplements, with a 2 for 1 offer, gives me 3 months supply for under £10). Thay also do the oil, so you could compare prices.

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Nana26
1st September 2011, 04:56 PM
Anyone have any idea what would be the best option in the USA?

Karlin
3rd September 2011, 05:48 PM
Honestly, :) I think there's very little difference as long as you use a decent, known brand. I buy them when they are 2 for 1 or on discount, like Kate, as I take them myself, and give the same ones to the dogs. It is worth watching to see if the dog is OK on such a high dose (given size of the dog, 1000mg is fairly high) -- Omega 3 does cause vertigo and dizziness/low level nausea in some people (me included, at high doses -- I had to halve what I was taking). If I were in the US I'd get them at Costco or one of the big chains or GNC (or whatever that big vitamin chain is) when on sale. They are always going on 2 for 1 or half off specials.

Eevery capsule of 1000mg omega 3 has 300 mg of the specific elements mentioned by Kate as far as I can see, so i think that is the norm anyway at 1000mg. All pretty much the same. Hence get them on specials -- you read a lot of hogwash about special quality on some of the websites selling supplements when actually they pretty much all filter the oils, have those levels of specific elements etc once you read the small print on bottles. Even Tesco own brand has all that.

There are other sources for oils than fish, too.

Love my Cavaliers
3rd September 2011, 06:34 PM
I'm not giving my dogs Omega 3 supplements specifically for their hearts since only Oz has a murmur and his is congenital and his cardiologist does not put him at greater risk for developing MVD that any other cavalier. But I do give them Omega 3 for their coats. Riley is on daily prednisone for her SM and one of the side effects is that she started losing all of her fur on her belly and tail. I was giving her the Omega 3 1000mg from Puritan's Pride but it didn't help at all. When I switched to wild, deep sea Salmon Oil from Wholistic Pet Organics she grew back all of her belly fur and her coat is longer and silkier than it was before. Unfortunately her tail didn't grow back. It has 300 mg of total Omega 3 fatty acids and costs $20 for 100 capsules, so not particularly cheap, but it works for what I wanted. The website in case anyone is interested is www.WholisticPetOrganics.com (http://www.WholisticPetOrganics.com) They are in New Hampshire, but I can get it at my local pet store.

Brian M
7th September 2011, 01:22 PM
Hi
I had a reply from Daisy's cardiologist Mr S. Swift and he advised as below ref the DPA/EHA levels.

" I checked the paper and the dose of Omega 3 fatty acids is quoted as “a dose of 40 mg/kg EPA and 25 mg/kg DHA for both dogs and cats with cardiac disease”. The exact formulation, i.e. capsules or a bottle, is not important but be aware that omega 3 FA is easily oxidised so either use capsules or a special pump with an inner container that collapses like Cardiguard "

I also phoned and spoke to him with ref to Daisy taking 5 mg of Frusemide for her SM and his concern this
drug may have on her heart with her now having a Grade 2 murmur ,he advised he was still awaiting full response from his other cardiologist colleagues both in the UK and the US though there is a conference that he is in attendance this week where he will raise the question again so I should have more news shortly .If he does advise that Daisy should take Fortekor to counter the effects of the Frusemide I will then seek further opinion off MR S. to see if Daisy can take another similar drug other than Frusemide .

Karlin
7th September 2011, 02:16 PM
There are actually lots of alternatives to frusimide. I would be very interested in hearing back what he says about concerns on heart issues, as if there are actually concerns, then they should be flagged generally to neurologists who often prescribe that particular drug. I use cimetidine; many use omaprazole, and there are several other choices that all do the exact same thing. Sometimes one works better for a dog than others. I don't like frusimide myself because it causes the dogs to need to pee, and therefore is more of a hassle to give. Some dogs have incontinence problems when they are taking it–Leo did so I stopped giving it pretty quickly. I've only used it since for dogs that need it for heart issues.

Thanks for getting more information on this issue from Mr. Swift.