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Brian M
5th September 2011, 09:23 AM
Hi

Where do I ask Chestergates to send copy scan to please ,and do we send heart
results to anyone .?

sins
5th September 2011, 10:36 AM
Hi Brian,You don't have to ask Chestergates to do anything.I would simply e mail a copy of your mri reports (not the scans)and cardiology reports to Sarah Blott directly yourself for both of your cavaliers.You can attach your reports to the e mail.Just add a few words to the effect that you wish the results to be added to the EBV database.
Just include your dogs names, KC registration number and date of birth.
BreedingForHealth@aht.org.uk

Sins

Kate H
5th September 2011, 10:54 AM
Simon Swift keeps the heart database himself, so nothing to do there!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Karlin
5th September 2011, 11:53 AM
Just a note that people might want to keep in mind–the scans done by Chestergates are not to the standard required for the future EBV scheme–I would still send them directly along though to Sarah Blott.

Unfortunately, Chestergates also do not ever send copies of scans automatically for this research – you must do this yourself so it is really important to make that personal effort! I do not know if they will send results even on request, and it is far better to submit them yourself whatever the case.

If anyone else has had scans done and made the assumption that their scanning center anywhere in the UK, or in the world, would automatically send their scan to Sarah Blott and Tom Lewis -- please contact them directly to see if they have the scan. Most likely, it will not have been sent because apparently almost no centres have routinely sent scans and supported this research. :( That is one reason, along with breeders failing to submit the many scans they have done, that there is still no EBV scheme. Not a single scan has been submitted by an individual breeder in the past month, for example, and only 20 individuals have submitted scans in the entire past year, according to the meeting held between breeders, the BVA, and that Kennel Club last week at which these details were made publicly known (and which is being publicly discussed elsewhere by breeder attendees). As I know that pet owners have been the people submitting some of those scans, it is sad that there has been so little breeder support, as they have been holding their scanning days throughout this year, and hundreds of dogs must have been scanned since the start of the year. Unfortunately, most breeders and their clubs continue to go to the centers which do the scans that will not comply with the very EBV scheme they have requested, even though they are aware that this is the case. And they should be aware–and at the very least, their clubs should be aware–that it is then up to the breeders themselves to submit scans, so clubs can hardly say they were not aware and that this lack of awareness accounts for the low level of scan submissions from breeders and club scanning days over the past year. I hope that individual breeders are clearer now on the need to submit their own reports and understand the need to address where they scan. and to get consistency with the proposed scheme.

I can confirm from direct inquiry to the researchers, however, that Stone Lion Vet Center in Wimbledon–where Clare Rusbridge works–routinely submits all scans, so if your scan was done there, you do not need to double check whether it has been sent. :thmbsup:

Brian M
5th September 2011, 12:16 PM
Hi Karlin

Advice Please .When you say submit a copy of the scans is it a copy of the written report I send or the scan itself .As when Daisy went the other week GS did a full body scan but gave me a copy on a sheet of scan paper and not on CD,I did phone and ask for a CD copy but was informed that the machine facilty to write to CD currently is not working .

Kate H
5th September 2011, 12:51 PM
Karlin wrote: the scans done by Chestergates are not to the standard required for the future EBV scheme

Actually, as far as I know they're OK for the EBV scheme (which basically only needs to know that a dog has/hasn't got SM, not the exact grade), it's the KC/BVA MRI scheme (if/when it ever gets started!) that won't accept Chestergates as at present (I expect they'll start doing all scans under anaesthetic eventually).

I think scanners not automatically submitting scans has to do with patient confidentiality - each patient would have to be asked for permission and I suspect a lot of them would refuse, as they don't send them in themselves either, so scanners have given up asking! They should, of course, simply put up a notice saying 'If you get your dog scanned here, the scan will be sent to the EBV scheme unles you specifically ask otherwise.'

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Karlin
5th September 2011, 01:22 PM
Actually, it will be the same scheme– and a problem highlighted by researchers at last week's meeting about the EBV scheme/ BVA/KC scheme for the failure of the EBVs to exist is the lack of consistency and standards and quality of equipment across the different centers, making the scans all of varied quality (Which is hardly a new issue–this point has been made consistently, and has been well known to clubs, for a couple of years). There already was an agreed standard amongst a group of centers and neurologists and researchers that has been in existence for quite some time–at least about 2 years now–so scanning centers should have been well aware of the need to meet certain minimum requirements in order that scans be usable for the proposed BVA/KC scheme–which in effect is for the EBVs.

There shouldn't have been any issue with patient confidentiality–all centres have to do is ask. As a matter of fact, owners have to sign releases anyway for the scans to happen and it is easy enough to just include a document to indicate the scans can be used for research purposes. The idea even back 2 or 3 years ago was that neurology and vet scanning centers should be automatically sending these through and the fact that this hasn't happened is quite a depressing discovery.

Brian M
5th September 2011, 01:24 PM
Hello Kate

I am getting lost here .Daisy did have a general anaesthetic and not sedation and her MRI was a full body one ie brain,cervical spine and
thoracolumbar region which took quite a long time compared to when G.S. can do up to 25 Cavaliers on club scanning days .Also
when I took Rosie last Oct she also had an M.R.I. full body scan with G.A. and her results are on CD and of course both girls are KC registered ,guidance please.

Karlin
5th September 2011, 01:27 PM
Brian, you just need to send a copy of the Scan certificate to Sarah yourself. She doesn't need the scan.

There are a number of reasons why Chestergate scans will not meet the minimum requirements at the moment for the future scheme, but researchers want the certificates anyway for now.

GraciesMom
5th September 2011, 01:29 PM
I have Gracie's scan on CD too. If so, can someone send me by PM the mailing address for Sarah for me to send it? Thanks,

Sabby
5th September 2011, 01:29 PM
So how is this going to work for me as my KC papers are still in my breeder’s name? I never had them transferred to me as I saw no point in this. Suppose the KC registration number is enough?

And I got no scan certificate. All I got is a report as in Ebony's case they were scanning for something else and the CM/SM showed on the scan. The same in Harley's case.

Karlin
5th September 2011, 01:34 PM
I do not think they are taking the entire scan CD because they are not doing the assessment of scans themselves. They need dogs that are registered to a national kennel club, and identifiable by number, and ideally micro-chipped and therefore traceable. The best thing to do if you have only a scan, and no certificate from a neurologist with the scan report, is e-mail the researchers using the e-mail address that Sins provided above. :thmbsup:

I am sure they will be interested in having the information, but the best thing to do is to ask them directly what they wish to receive. It may be that all they need is the actual write up the neurologist did from the scan, but they will also need a dog's registration number, pedigree information (e.g. registered name), and ideally microchip. Dogs that are not registered through a national kennel club are unfortunately not of use for the EBV scheme.

My understanding is that they would in particular appreciate scans of dogs that actually have SM.

Karlin
5th September 2011, 01:37 PM
Sabby, you don't need the actual papers–you just need the registration number and also, the microchip number if there is one, and you need to be able to give the dog's registered name, date of birth, etc. Just drop the researchers a note at the e-mail address mentioned, and I am sure they can give you the details of what they would like to have. :)

Karlin
5th September 2011, 01:40 PM
Incidentally, you can see why a standardized MRI scheme such as that proposed by the BVA/KC, is so badly needed for the EBV's. Right now, many centers only indicate whether there is a syrinx or not, Whereas there is so much other information that is important, including whether the dog is symptomatic. Only a handful are using the formal grading scheme. The new scheme takes into account CM as well.

Karlin
5th September 2011, 01:45 PM
Brian as far as I know Chestergates never give owners the actual scans on CD -- unless this has very recently changed. They had been the only centre internationally that I know of that did not give owners a CD (I have requested them to no avail and have had 6 scans done there myself). It would be very welcome if this has changed. They do give an xray sheet of key scan images but this isn't adequate in detail for anyone else to evaluate the scan for research (ie at the level of detail researchers need -- though the basics, and whether the dog has a syrinx or not, are generally clear and obvious).

Brian M
5th September 2011, 02:12 PM
Hi

Thanks Karlin ,I am sure Rosie got a CD off Martin but will check and come back .Sorry for another
question but for Daisy I had a letter stating the diagnosis but nothing that looks like a certificate .

Karlin
5th September 2011, 02:16 PM
Brian I don't know what exactly they want -- you really need to just email Sarah Blott at the address Sins gave you as none of us here are directly involved with the scheme or aware of their exact requirements. :thmbsup:

tuppenlil
5th September 2011, 04:41 PM
I can confirm from direct inquiry to the researchers, however, that Stone Lion Vet Center in Wimbledon–where Clare Rusbridge works–routinely submits all scans, so if your scan was done there, you do not need to double check whether it has been sent. :thmbsup:

I can confirm that all scans performed at other MRI centres for which Clare Rusbridge "reports" for the MRI certificate, are also automatically sent to the EBV.

Maggie

Kate H
5th September 2011, 10:35 PM
Sorry I was getting Brian confused! Chestergates use sedation-only for the mini-scans they do for the breed clubs (which is what Oliver has had twice); for longer, more comprehensive scans, they give anaesthetic.

Kate, Oliver and Aled