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gamefanz
7th September 2011, 09:40 PM
Toby will be 20 weeks tomorrow. He's lost 4 front teeth in the last week or so. But they are all the teeth that DO NOT hurt human hands :rolleyes: When can we expect his fangs to come out? Knowing our luck they will be the last icon_whistling I swear they get sharper by the day:( Please give me some good news :thmbsup:
We are cutting carrots in half and freezing them, This seems to help loosen the teeth and his tendon chews help too. The Diarrhea has stopped and he is back to normal there but he is still very bitey and those fangs are killer!

Becky

BrooklynMom
7th September 2011, 10:19 PM
No idea when the fangs come out...one day I just looked and Brooklyn's were gone ;)

Tips to help play biting...pups need to be taught that this hurts you a little bit, they don't know the strength of those little teeth! What we did with Brooklyn to train her, was that every time she "play bit", even if it didn't hurt at all, we would yelp in a very high pitch voice "ouch!" and pull our hand away. Then immediately stop play or walk away. This is similar to what a mom or her litter mates would do to help eachother understand when a bit goes from soft to too hard.

A great thing to teach, because even once those fangs fall out...they will grow back even bigger! What I mentioned above worked perfectly for Brooklyn.

Also, does He play with other dogs a lot? Other dogs (well trained ones, young and old) are priceless because no one can teach a dog appropriate behavior better that another well trained dog! :)

gamefanz
7th September 2011, 10:29 PM
Thank you. We do the yelping or we stand up and move or put him in time out. Usually it only happens when we play with his toys or we check his teeth but no matter how many times we yelp or move away he still does it. We've been doing this for a few months now and he is not getting the no biting thing when we play. He doesn't bite now just to bite so we have made progress but still it hurts.
He has no other dogs to play with except 1 day a week after training class. But everyone is very polite in the class and no teeth have been shown. Just lots of jumping, pawing and running. We haven't taken him to the dog park yet because we were warned that people can be rude and not pay attention to their dogs so bad behaviors start to happen. I would like to one day soon though to try it but am nervous.

Becky

BrooklynMom
7th September 2011, 10:57 PM
It sounds like you are doing the right thing then...consistency is key with the biting. Part of it is age too so just stick with it and every single time, if he play bites, yelp and look really hurt. Then stop play all together. He will get it!

Is there some puppy groups you can join? Or some dog socials? There is one in our area once a week, you can pay $10 and it is 2 hours at a fenced show ground where 2 trainers supervise, but all the dogs get to play. That is good if you want some help, training tips, or just general supervision.

Dog parks are hit and miss. Don't totally write them off...you just have to find the right ones. Some are places where owners just take their big rambunctious dogs with too much energy to burn off steam in a non structured way, and some are a lot more calm, where owners are having fun and everyone is engaged. I love the park we take Brooky to, but I scoped it out for a few days first (some I scoped out were too chaotic for me). Basically, after spending some time there, driving by at different hours, I now know what time to take her when all the dog walkers won't be there and the early morning rush is gone and the small dogs start arriving. If you are flexible during the day, you could just go for some drives and if the park looks good or empty, give it a try! I always stick with the rule that if I ever feel uncomfortable or some dogs want to play that are out of Brookies league, I just call her over with some chicken and we get on our way :)

I love the park because it gives us so much space to play and she can meet other dogs. I always ask the owner of a dog who is approaching (even if I have to yell from far away!) "is your dog okay?" just to make sure. You would be surprised that owners will answer honestly if they aren't good with small dogs or something. Or if Brooky gets scared by a big dog (even if it is being really nice) if she is scared I just ask the other owner "your dog is being very sweet to mine, but would you mind moving your dog a little bit away as mine is just scared." People always respond nicely.
Also, Brooklyn is 100% focused on me at the park. I always have chicken, a ball and we play (with some occasional dog play too). Best just to get a feel and do what you are comfortable with. The first few times I only went in when there was no one there! ;) Just so I could get comfortable myself.

Sounds like you are on the right track though!!

Zumie05
7th September 2011, 11:21 PM
I think 6 or 7 months is around the normal age for the k9s to fall out, although it is also not uncommon for the smaller breeds to retain these teeth which then later on need to be pulled out. Coco still has hers actually, one finally fell out last week! We are waiting until she has a medical need to be sedated to remove the others (mri scan, or getting spayed, or during a dental cleaning), as it they not causing her any problems right now.

gamefanz
7th September 2011, 11:39 PM
Thank you for the ideas and advice. There is only 1 place I know of that we can take him. Its literally a garage turned into a puppy social that a trainer in town oversees. It costs each time you go and they are only allowed up to age 6 months I think but its worth a shot. Our puppy classes end this Sunday so he will no longer have any contact with dogs. There is a dog park that is 3 min from our house that we want to try. There is a small dog side and large dog side so that's good. After our classes end, we may give it a shot and just drive by to see if the pups and owners look friendly.
Sadly just going to a park doesn't do much for us. I think dog owners have the same concerns as we do and pretty much steer clear of us. This weekend we even had this older gentlemen and his dog take a short cut through the grass to avoid us:( Toby was just walking, he doesn't look or act mean at all but people seem to do this a lot.
It could be just the area we live in icon_nwunsure

Becky




It sounds like you are doing the right thing then...consistency is key with the biting. Part of it is age too so just stick with it and every single time, if he play bites, yelp and look really hurt. Then stop play all together. He will get it!

Is there some puppy groups you can join? Or some dog socials? There is one in our area once a week, you can pay $10 and it is 2 hours at a fenced show ground where 2 trainers supervise, but all the dogs get to play. That is good if you want some help, training tips, or just general supervision.

Dog parks are hit and miss. Don't totally write them off...you just have to find the right ones. Some are places where owners just take their big rambunctious dogs with too much energy to burn off steam in a non structured way, and some are a lot more calm, where owners are having fun and everyone is engaged. I love the park we take Brooky to, but I scoped it out for a few days first (some I scoped out were too chaotic for me). Basically, after spending some time there, driving by at different hours, I now know what time to take her when all the dog walkers won't be there and the early morning rush is gone and the small dogs start arriving. If you are flexible during the day, you could just go for some drives and if the park looks good or empty, give it a try! I always stick with the rule that if I ever feel uncomfortable or some dogs want to play that are out of Brookies league, I just call her over with some chicken and we get on our way :)

I love the park because it gives us so much space to play and she can meet other dogs. I always ask the owner of a dog who is approaching (even if I have to yell from far away!) "is your dog okay?" just to make sure. You would be surprised that owners will answer honestly if they aren't good with small dogs or something. Or if Brooky gets scared by a big dog (even if it is being really nice) if she is scared I just ask the other owner "your dog is being very sweet to mine, but would you mind moving your dog a little bit away as mine is just scared." People always respond nicely.
Also, Brooklyn is 100% focused on me at the park. I always have chicken, a ball and we play (with some occasional dog play too). Best just to get a feel and do what you are comfortable with. The first few times I only went in when there was no one there! ;) Just so I could get comfortable myself.

Sounds like you are on the right track though!!

gamefanz
7th September 2011, 11:41 PM
Oh goodnessh*lp This will be a very long year if this is the case because his teeth are SO sharp! I hope he is in the group where they fall out at 6 months!

Becky




I think 6 or 7 months is around the normal age for the k9s to fall out, although it is also not uncommon for the smaller breeds to retain these teeth which then later on need to be pulled out. Coco still has hers actually, one finally fell out last week! We are waiting until she has a medical need to be sedated to remove the others (mri scan, or getting spayed, or during a dental cleaning), as it they not causing her any problems right now.

BrooklynMom
7th September 2011, 11:49 PM
That puppy social sounds wonderful!! It will be worth it to socialize Toby as much as possible before 6 months and it sounds like with the supervisor, you and Toby will feel safe and comfortable. And if he can only be there until he is 6 months, it won't be too much of an investment really :) It is a really important time in his life to get him around other dogs so he learns doggy behaviors that only dogs can really teach.

Just do what you feel comfortable with at the dog park, you will know best. Maybe there are times in the day where no one is there or maybe just one dog...if so, I would start that way.

Oh, and funny you say that about the man and his dog avoiding you at the park...that happened to me the other day! I was like, hello, my dog is the sweetest looking thing! Ha. But I later found out when we passed him again on the way back and the narrow path made us closer together, that his little duchess hounds were actually really aggressive! They lunged with full teeth at Brooklyn, I screamed because I was so startled. So, in cases like that, people might actually know their dog would be snappy or aggressive and avoid you...or they might be dealing with their own issues so they just keep their dog away from others. It's usually not you!

Good luck!

dozyrosy
10th September 2011, 08:49 PM
Going back to Toby's biting issues: out of the six Cavaliers I've had five of them learned very fast not to bite, but my last one just didn't or wouldn't (! :-D) get it for ages, he just gave me a look and would bite down harder when I "yelped". I was beginning to think that he'd never stop when he did finally get it - it may have been playing with my other Cavalier that finally got the message through to him - I was starting to wonder if we had some issues going on, but he's actually a very wilful little monkey. He was just a little bit older than your Toby when he finally stopped, so don't despair!

Rosemary

gamefanz
10th September 2011, 11:39 PM
Well we tried the dog park today. There we a few whippets, a Bichon looking dog, a golden retriever, schnauzer & cocker spaniel in the small dog area. We did great with Toby until was introduced to the Bichon looking dog. The Bichon snarled and chased Toby with teeth. Toby ran and we had to stop the dog from getting to him. We separated them and all was ok until the male whippet tried humping Toby. We separated them and went to another area. The whippet came back at him again awhile later and tried it again. At this time Toby had enough and wanted to leave. So we left. But he did play and run for quite awhile before those dogs got in the way. He ran after balls and we called him back he came back..It was great to see! He listened the whole time we were there. Always coming back when we called and gave our recall signals. He did well.
Maybe next time we go back there will be different dogs there that will not try to violate him.
Becky




That puppy social sounds wonderful!! It will be worth it to socialize Toby as much as possible before 6 months and it sounds like with the supervisor, you and Toby will feel safe and comfortable. And if he can only be there until he is 6 months, it won't be too much of an investment really :) It is a really important time in his life to get him around other dogs so he learns doggy behaviors that only dogs can really teach.

Just do what you feel comfortable with at the dog park, you will know best. Maybe there are times in the day where no one is there or maybe just one dog...if so, I would start that way.

Oh, and funny you say that about the man and his dog avoiding you at the park...that happened to me the other day! I was like, hello, my dog is the sweetest looking thing! Ha. But I later found out when we passed him again on the way back and the narrow path made us closer together, that his little duchess hounds were actually really aggressive! They lunged with full teeth at Brooklyn, I screamed because I was so startled. So, in cases like that, people might actually know their dog would be snappy or aggressive and avoid you...or they might be dealing with their own issues so they just keep their dog away from others. It's usually not you!

Good luck!

gamefanz
10th September 2011, 11:44 PM
Thank you. You give me hope! He lost another tooth a few days ago so he's not being so good today with the biting. Can't wait until its all over with.

Becky



Going back to Toby's biting issues: out of the six Cavaliers I've had five of them learned very fast not to bite, but my last one just didn't or wouldn't (! :-D) get it for ages, he just gave me a look and would bite down harder when I "yelped". I was beginning to think that he'd never stop when he did finally get it - it may have been playing with my other Cavalier that finally got the message through to him - I was starting to wonder if we had some issues going on, but he's actually a very wilful little monkey. He was just a little bit older than your Toby when he finally stopped, so don't despair!

Rosemary