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GraciesMom
29th September 2011, 02:19 AM
I am trying to find out more about this. I did not know there was a separate registry... the only one I have seen is the one on the UK site that shows registered dogs and you click on USA to find dogs listed there.
http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.html
What other registry is there for dogs in the USA?

Karlin
29th September 2011, 02:29 AM
There is no registry in the US for MRI results. There isn't yet in the UK either, although there will be once the kennel club/BVA scheme is underway.

GraciesMom
29th September 2011, 03:02 AM
Maybe this was a reference to the DNA project? Would that give you a registration number?

Pat
29th September 2011, 03:06 AM
What other registry is there for dogs in the USA?

That would be the NADA. Gee, I can think of so many entity names that this acronym could represent!

Pat

GraciesMom
29th September 2011, 03:18 AM
What does NADA stand for in this case? He he!

Pat
29th September 2011, 04:10 AM
Sorry, I was being witchy with a "w" - helped along by having a bad cold and feeling irritable.

Sadly, there is no registering body such as CERF or OFA that lists dogs that have been MRI'd along with the results. That is the whole basis of the big fight that I presume every puppy buyer is following intently - whether or not to publish MRI results - the danger of course being that "I" am too stupid to understand MRI results. I presume you noticed that the MRI list on the UK club site doesn't give results or even the date of the MRI and thus really isn't very useful.

My boy is a participant in the DNA project (Canadian) and the EBV research (UK) - the data for both projects is not public. I have an MRI certificate for him associated with the EBV research, and I have a written report from his MRI. My certificate and report must be special because I am perfectly able to understand them. The certificate lists his registered name, call name, owner, AKC registration number, microchip number, date of scan, age at time of scan and date of birth among other things - AND the results of the MRI. The certificate and report are the things I would share with interested brood bitch owners and potential puppy buyers if my boy was a stud dog, and those items are what I would expect to see if I were purchasing a Cavalier puppy - before I ever laid eyes on the pup or paid my deposit.

Pat

Karlin
29th September 2011, 12:07 PM
Maybe this was a reference to the DNA project? Would that give you a registration number?



No, Maybe you are confusing dog registration numbers -- eg their Kennel Club, AKC etc number -- which is used to uniquely identify dogs in research for scans, or for personal scans, along with a microchip to verify the dog is who the person getting the scan says s/he is?

NADA: yeah, a LOT of breeders use that registry... :lol:

GraciesMom
29th September 2011, 03:19 PM
The person was referring to this:

http://www.offa.org/index.html
http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/


And the breeder at issue is paricipating in this.

Pat
29th September 2011, 03:51 PM
Well, OK...........but your thread is titled "What is the USA registry of MRI scans"........and, as discussed above, there is NO entity that includes MRI scans or SM/CM information.

Here is what CHIC covers:

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
(search)

Hip Dysplasia
■OFA Evaluation - OR
■OVC Evaluation - OR
■PennHIP Evaluation

Eye Clearance
■Initial CERF exam at 8-12 weeks, follow up at 12 months, annually until 5 years old, every two years until 9 years old

Patellar Luxation
■OFA Evaluation

Congenital Cardiac Database
■OFA evaluation with examination performed by a Board-Certified Cardiologist - Recommended Annually
■ARCH - ACVIM Registry of Cardiac Health - OR

As an aside - interesting that they list this as "Congenital cardiac database" when MVD is an acquired cardiac disease (although with a genetic basis) and not a congenital disease, but I digress.

OFA lists all of the diseases/conditions that they cover on the left side of the site, but no SM/CM.

Have you heard of any activity aimed at adding SM/CM data to either of these registries?

Pat

anniemac
29th September 2011, 03:54 PM
I don't think this is something to talk about publicly. There are some great breeders that have done a lot and worked with researchers for several years.



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RodRussell
29th September 2011, 03:56 PM
The person was referring to this:

http://www.offa.org/index.html
http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/


And the breeder at issue is paricipating in this.

That is CHIC. It has no involvement with any cavalier MRI registry. If there is an MRI registry, I very seriously doubt that it would include MRIs of cavaliers. CHIC works with the AKC breed clubs. The AKC breed club for cavaliers thus far has refused to recognize the existence of either the MVD breeding protocol or the SM breeding protocol. So, whatever potential value CHIC could lend to CM/SM cavaliers is dead-in-the-water as long as the AKC's cavalier breed club, the ACKCSC, refuses to deal with reality and solutions.

anniemac
29th September 2011, 03:58 PM
Well, OK...........but your thread is titled "What is the USA registry of MRI scans"........and, as discussed above, there is NO entity that includes MRI scans or SM/CM information.

Here is what CHIC covers:

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
(search)

Hip Dysplasia
■OFA Evaluation - OR
■OVC Evaluation - OR
■PennHIP Evaluation

Eye Clearance
■Initial CERF exam at 8-12 weeks, follow up at 12 months, annually until 5 years old, every two years until 9 years old

Patellar Luxation
■OFA Evaluation

Congenital Cardiac Database
■OFA evaluation with examination performed by a Board-Certified Cardiologist - Recommended Annually
■ARCH - ACVIM Registry of Cardiac Health - OR

As an aside - interesting that they list this as "Congenital cardiac database" when MVD is an acquired cardiac disease (although with a genetic basis) and not a congenital disease, but I digress.

OFA lists all of the diseases/conditions that they cover on the left side of the site, but no SM/CM.

Have you heard of any activity aimed at adding SM/CM data to either of these registries?

Pat

No I have not heard of adding cm/sm. There are some cavaliers listed on ckcsc.org health database that will say they had an MRI but no more information.

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RodRussell
29th September 2011, 04:03 PM
...As an aside - interesting that they list this as "Congenital cardiac database" when MVD is an acquired cardiac disease (although with a genetic basis) and not a congenital disease, but I digress. ...

Yes, I have discussed this with OFA. All I get in response is a glazed look.

GraciesMom
29th September 2011, 05:33 PM
I would add that the title of the thread is how it was described to me in an email so I used the same terms they did. So that is why I was confused from the start. I am now unconfused....

sunshinekisses
29th September 2011, 05:38 PM
Yes, I have discussed this with OFA. All I get in response is a glazed look.
I don't know why but this made me Laugh out Loud!!!! :)

I think OFA provides great information for breeders and buyers alike. I wish more would use it. Unfortunately there is a fee for every submission, which adds up for a breeder that has several breeding dogs. Many breeders I have talked do not send results in to OFA but keep their own records.

Karlin
30th September 2011, 06:37 PM
OFA Can be a useful shortcut for information, but people still need to ask for the actual certs. And as is noted–a very important point–a lot of breeders do NOT submit results to this registry anyway, For a range of reasons, many of them very valid– and so omission of a breeder on OFA does not mean that breeder is necessarily not a great, health testing breeder. :thmbsup: aAgain, that's why people need to ask to see the actual certs from any breeder.

Unfortunately, although there is at least one breeder that has worked very hard In the US to try to set up a health registry which would list results of MRIs, along with other health tests and would be specific to the breed and that's very useful for breeders and puppy buyers alike, there has been very little broad breeder interest or take up. The UK list is pretty meaningless. All it means is that someone might have done a scan at some point. I am aware that some people did a scan so that they could get on the list and appear to be “scanning breeders”. And obviously, that works–because a lot of people have defended breeders by saying that they are on that list, as if that alone makes them reputable and health focused. I think it would actually suit breed health better not even to have that list posted any longer–it did start out as a list of dogs that had scanned with a particular grade and would have been a lot more useful all-around.

The KC/BVA scheme will be very useful for breeders and for puppy buyers, because it will give readers a standardized grade indicating the scan results for a dog, and there will be a panel that adjudicates on the scans to give consistency. There were initial problems with dogs being given all clear 'grades' (though this was breeders self assigning grades based on the scans, not actual grades given under the agreed scheme in place amongst a core group of researchers for consistency, so they would have been meaningless interpretations in a lot of cases.). In other words clear of CM and clear of SM–especially in the US, whereas, when the scans were read for a 2nd opinion, it turned out the dogs did have CM, and in some cases they also had a pre-syrinx or small syrinx as well. I've seen a couple of those scans myself from people who sent them along to me and know that the subsequent interpretation was changed.

It is really important for there to be the kind of standardized approach that will come in with the KC/BVA scheme. :thmbsup: Hopefully it will get wide breeder support and bring a lot more transparency and consistency to scan interpretation.