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korimako
8th November 2011, 10:50 AM
My 10 month old puppy has a very wry mouth. I had never heard of this before. Can anything be done about it at this stage?
The breeder is saying that it is probably diet or possibly an infection which caused this which is pretty upsetting. I have had dogs all my life and never had a problem with my dogs teeth.
This is my 3rd C King Charles Spaniel. My last one was nearly 16 when I had to say goodbye to her.
Thanks for any advice.
Kathy

Reptigirl
8th November 2011, 03:29 PM
I'm not very familiar with wry mouth. Actually never seen it in person but I had a dog breeder friend (not specifically CKCS) who was concerned about it. I always thought wry mouth was caused by genetics. I was under the impression it could be a recessive gene carried by one or both of the parents. It is a type of malocclusion kinda like overbites or underbites.

Hopefully someone else will respond who knows more about it. What has your vet said about it? I'm sure they would be able to tell you why it happened. If it's an infection or bad nutrition you would want to get it fixed ASAP!

What kind of food do you feed? If its a store bought dog food I would highly doubt there is a commercial dog food so lacking in nutrition to cause something like wry mouth in a puppy. I would think you would see other health problems as well.

Pat
8th November 2011, 03:39 PM
Have you done any reading/research on this? These seem to indicate that wry mouth is inherited:

http://www.dentalvet.com/patients/orthodontics/pet_orthodontics.htm

"Some abnormal bites (malocclusions) have been proven to be genetically influenced, such as severe over or under bites, and wry bites. Other bite abnormalities are known to be acquired (non genetic). Acquired malocclusions can result from tug of war games played with towels or ropes which move teeth into abnormal position. Traumatic birthing can also responsible for some acquired abnormalities.

"A wry mouth or wry bite occurs when one side of the jaw grows more than the other. Wry bites show as triangular defects in the incisor area. Some of the incisors will meet their opposing counterparts, while others will not. Wry bite is a severe inherited defect."

http://americanboxerclub.org/wry-mouths.html

"These mouths will always come back to haunt you in your breeding program, if this dog or bitch is bred."

http://dogs.about.com/cs/disableddogs/p/malocclusion.htm

"Puppies should be examined around three or four months of age for early detection of bite problems. A dog's jaw finishes growing at approximately ten months of age, and until that time a mild under or overshot should be left alone as it may corrct itself spontaneously during the growth period. A severe bite structure problem is unlikely to be corrected with aging, but should not be surgically corrected until the puppy is older and has finished growing.
Dental procedures such as tooth extraction, use of spacers or crown height reduction can be performed once the dog has attained full jaw growth in severe malocclusion cases. Since this is a mostly hereditary condition, dogs with malocclusions should be removed from all breeding programs, with the exception of brachycephalic breeds and undershot bites (since this a breed trait)."

I would consult with a veterinary dentist to see what options you might have.

Pat

korimako
8th November 2011, 06:36 PM
Thank you both. This is what I had read and understood but the breeder was saying that there is no wry mouth as far back as they can go and that she couldn't do anything to help me. I wasn't asking for help from her with money but letting her know about it and asking if anything could be done.
At this stage the vet is talking about removing the incissor next to her top canine and filing down the bottom canine on the same side so she can close her mouth better. I am scared to death of the wrong thing being done. I guess the jaws have done all the growing they are going to do?

Pat
8th November 2011, 07:18 PM
Thank you both. This is what I had read and understood but the breeder was saying that there is no wry mouth as far back as they can go and that she couldn't do anything to help me. I wasn't asking for help from her with money but letting her know about it and asking if anything could be done.
At this stage the vet is talking about removing the incissor next to her top canine and filing down the bottom canine on the same side so she can close her mouth better. I am scared to death of the wrong thing being done. I guess the jaws have done all the growing they are going to do?

I understand that it is a recessive gene and can skip generations, etc., so it is certainly possible that this was a surprise to the breeder. But it's good that the breeder now knows and can evaluate potential future breedings with the sire and dam.

If you have access to a veterinary dental specialist, I'd want to do a consult to make sure that you know all of the options since a GP vet might have limited experience and skills for determining what options might be available. If you don't have the option for this kind of second opinion, your vet's plan sounds reasonable as far as improving her bite.

Pat

korimako
8th November 2011, 07:23 PM
Thanks Pat. I shall make some enquiries as to whether there is veterinary dental specialist in Christchurch.


I understand that it is a recessive gene and can skip generations, etc., so it is certainly possible that this was a surprise to the breeder. But it's good that the breeder now knows and can evaluate potential future breedings with the sire and dam.

If you have access to a veterinary dental specialist, I'd want to do a consult to make sure that you know all of the options since a GP vet might have limited experience and skills for determining what options might be available. If you don't have the option for this kind of second opinion, your vet's plan sounds reasonable as far as improving her bite.

Pat

HollyDolly
8th November 2011, 07:27 PM
The breeder is saying that it is probably diet or possibly an infection which caused this which is pretty upsetting. Kathy
Has she completely changed her puppy teeth? I know she is 10 months but some do take longer than others to change.
Does she have trouble eating?

A wry mouth has absolutely nothing to do with the diet or an infection so please do not hold yourself responsible.
It is certainly down to genetics and a dog breeder should know that.


Nanette

Davecav
8th November 2011, 10:50 PM
I agree with Nanette, wry mouths are inherited, just like undershot and overshot jaws. I'm surprised the breeder suggested otherwise. Either she is very ill informed, so shouldn't be breeding, or she's trying to pass the buck!

Lani
8th November 2011, 11:06 PM
I agree it is inherited. I have a friend who has Boxers one with wry mouth. Since my sister's charlie (aka English Toy/King Charles) Gemma has wry mouth I was familiar with it and looked it up.

It turns out wry mouth is very prevalent in boxers - one of their breed's genetic issues. so I would say it is genetic. Also since my sister's King Charles has it, I can see how it could work it's way into the Cavalier breed as well even if not that common. I just checked on www.Cavalierhealth.org (http://www.Cavalierhealth.org) and don't see wry mouth listed as one of the many conditions afflicting cavaliers, so I would think it is pretty rare and as Pat said, probably a recessive trait that was inherited.

Good luck. I hope it does not end up being too severe to cause future problems.

AT
13th November 2011, 04:10 PM
Its certainly inherited in king charles .
IF it was just the teeth out of line you could blame things like pulling toys etc , but that would not affect the actual jaw.

It doesnt bothert them too much but you need to brush their teeth more often

korimako
28th November 2011, 11:09 AM
Sorry I have not had access to a computer for a while.
Cindy has trouble picking up and chewing some food. She has always been on a well balanced diet.
I have been doing lots of reading and it definitely seems to be inheritated. I have been in touch with the breeder who could only say "Well I can't help you" I wasn't actually wanting her help but letting her know I was aware that it was NOT my fault.
When she is spayed late December, it will be dcided what to do if anything. I think though something will have to be done to make her more comfortable.
If any one is interested in seeing picture of her mouth let me know.

Thanks all for your support :)
Kathy