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Kim N
5th January 2012, 04:51 PM
Hi all, So many things running through my mind in preparation for our first Cav. So here goes just one...

I feed all raw to our Yorkie. She does really well on it though I feed premade raw because I am too scared to feed consumable bones. So naturally the thought runs through my mind how many are feeding their Cavs raw and has anyone noticed positive health points in regard to the many health issues that the Cavvies have?

Sorry if you will soon tire of all my questions but the more I read the more questions I seem to have. ;)

Sabby
5th January 2012, 08:40 PM
I know of many people on the Forum that feed a raw diet to their Cavaliers and everybody speaks of the benefits especially as Cavaliers suffer from anal glands. I have just switched to K9 freeze dried raw and it’s great. Not cheap but very convenient. Look it up on www.k9natural.com

Karlin
5th January 2012, 09:06 PM
I think it really depends on the dog and the raw diet. A lot of people I fear feed nutritionally deficient raw diets that are homemade as it isn't as simple as throwing together a bit of this and that. Over time, failing to provide the correct balance for canines will be deleterious to health and this will not be obvious because much of the effect will be on things you cannot see or that take time to develop. Different breeds can also have different needs. I'd advise anyone choosing to feed raw to get Monica Segal's booklet on diets for cavaliers, follow her discussion list and consider her book on raw and homecooked diets. Her regular newsletter (free) can be very insightful -- people write in with questions and are doing what may seem to be the right supplementing etc but her advice on just how wrong some of these approaches are can be eye-opening (she is a qualified nutritionist, unlike a lot of people who post to various raw food forums or write books on the topic!). She is adamant in particular that OVER supplementing is a serious problem for some dogs, and also can be a huge waste of money. Thus just throwing in handfuls of this and that simply because someone recommends vitamin x and oil y is the wrong approach an can even be far worse than feeding the cheapest supermarket tinned food.Some dogs also simply do not do well on raw -- it can make them ill. And it could be a risky diet for immune-compromised dogs. Some long established and respected raw feeders believe it is risky to give raw to dogs under anything from 6 month to a year because of their underdeveloped immune systems.Raw really suits some dogs and can be a great diet for dogs that have digestive problems on commercial foods, and many swear by raw of course!I fed raw for quite a while and frankly saw no difference overall to health or coat or the things that can be very subjective when evaluated by the owner. One thing for sure: dogs tend to love raw though! But then mine will eat just about anything with gusto. One will eat a dog or cat poop as happily and lustily as a bowl of raw, so I think 'enthusiasm' for this diet or that can also be very subjective in the eyes of owners (who kind of forget that a cat poop or additive-laden hot dog will be just as excitedly greeted by their dog :lol: ).I think any balanced diet is fine, raw, commercial or homecooked, and no one should feel guilty for making one choice over another (personally I feed a mix of all three, randomly). Most of preference and result is perception in the owner rather than result in or preference of the dog. :) It still makes me laugh to read ingredients lists on many supposedly 'closer to the wild canine' diet products that contain seaweed powder and cranberries and wild salmon (even wolves do not catch wild salmon though they might scavenge a nice rotten one left by bears, who do catch them... :) ).

Brian M
5th January 2012, 10:10 PM
Hi
My four all eat Raw and as Karlin says I even include blueberries and a teaspoon of Seaweed powder :) ,but seriously they do eat a large
variety of raw meat ,veggies and fruit and a wide range of supplements .They enjoy it and I love making it and seeing what other things
I can give to them though I do not give any form of bone but I do add a bonemeal supplement .please read up and learn before you start and it can be quite expensive as I buy their meat from my local butchers all prime cuts and strawberrys lately have been 2 a punnet and we use three a week and water melon two a week at 2.50 each all from Sainsbury.

I am happy with a bowl of cornflakes .:)

waldor
5th January 2012, 10:22 PM
I fed raw for quite a while and frankly saw no difference overall to health or coat or the things that can be very subjective when evaluated by the owner.

Best answer yet, IMO. It is entirely subjective and depends on the dog.

I would feed kibble if I could because it is easier and cheaper, but our Cav's eyes run more, and she scratches like mad when fed kibble--enough to make you wonder if she's got SM! We've done grain-free, rice-based, you name it. I finally found a frozen pre-mixed raw 'diet' that works for her and there is no scratching, at all, ever. I also add vitamin supplements. It is also a bother to store, divide, refreeze, as well as to pack up and store when she is boarded.

As for our Cav, Sophie, she luuuurrrrves kibble, and there are the occasional times she gets it. She gets so excited and dances around in circles, so we call it her "Happy Meal", but mostly it is used as a treat. In very small quantities, it doesn't cause allergy troubles. It would be so nice, though, if it could be her regular food.

Kim N
5th January 2012, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the thoughts on it. You can never take in enough info and experiences I think.

I have been feeding my Yorkie on pre made raw since Oct. I don't find it too much hassle and she loves it which isn't something we could ever say about any other food she ever tried. She never had any problems such as itching and it hasn't been very long so I couldn't say she's had any real benefit from it that I can see on the outside but it makes me feel better. :o

I do believe that what's in their food does have an impact on their health so just want to make sure I make the right choices for the best chance at good health. If I end up bringing home a puppy vs an adult I would not raise her her first year on raw though.

Tania
6th January 2012, 11:23 PM
Hi

I feed raw.

Darlings food, is prepared with the correct amount of meat, vegetable and bone. Even though my dogs have genetic health problems, their general condition, eg. coat, teeth, anal glands and skin are excellent. The only supplement I use is Yumega Plus and that is mainly for Dotty who is an ex puppy farm dog who came to us in a dreadful state. If you feel raw food is not convenient, look at K9 Natural. I tried preparing "the perfect raw diet" it didn't really work so I left it to the experts.

Nalu
7th January 2012, 12:24 AM
Does anyone have information about irradiated dog food? I've heard the US requires irradiation of all imported dog food.

Kim N
7th January 2012, 01:37 AM
The FDA approved the use of irradiation for all pet foods in April 2001. Most of our food bought in the grocery stores are also irradiated.
Here's a good article against it. http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Hidden-Dangers-of-Irradiation&id=4039420

and one for it http://www.petplace.com/dogs/irradiation-of-dog-food-is-it-safe/page1.aspx

A little searching will bring up lots of studies that show the against side. http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=13088

http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-news/2009/06/10/australia-bans-cat-and-dog-food-irradiation.aspx

This one relates more to dogs http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=13936

as does this one http://jap.physiology.org/content/14/4/639.abstract

http://www.iicph.org/food_irradiation_revisited

This article shows the symbol you will find on irradiated food http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/aa/aa-23sep2008.htm

I listed some of the articles but there are tons out there.
I think all in all it is one of those things that a person has to study and decide for themselves. Just MHO but I see far more against than for and it isn't something I am for.

Alana
7th January 2012, 01:55 AM
I would feed kibble if I could because it is easier and cheaper, but our Cav's eyes run more, and she scratches like mad when fed kibble--enough to make you wonder if she's got SM!

I feed Bella a 'Premium vet recommended kibble' and she scratches quite a bit. I am thinking of taking her off it to see if it is the food. She has a few little bits of flaky skin that looks like dandruff. How long would it take to see a change in scratching if I change the diet?

RodRussell
7th January 2012, 03:42 AM
I think it really depends on the dog and the raw diet. A lot of people I fear feed nutritionally deficient raw diets that are homemade as it isn't as simple as throwing together a bit of this and that. Over time, failing to provide the correct balance for canines will be deleterious to health and this will not be obvious because much of the effect will be on things you cannot see or that take time to develop. ...

I agree absolutely with Karlin's statement here. We feed home-prepared raw, and have for well over a decade, for two reasons: (a) Our vet firmly recommended that we stop feeding kibble and/or canned food, and (b) we can better supplement our own recipes for the particular health issues, especially mitral valve disease, which our dogs have had over that time period.

Our home-prepared recipes are reviewed and approved by our vet, as are our supplements (all of which are commercially prepared). We would not feed our dogs a homemade diet without being sure that some knowledgeable vet has blessed it. To make up a recipe from table scraps or whatever is in the refridgerator or pantry would be idiotic.

Also, I have found that on the whole, board certified veterinary nutritionists are hostile to home-prepared raw diets. They seem to think that if the food does not come in a bag or a can, it cannot be any good. It amazes me how prejudiced so many of them seem to be about home-prepared raw diets. They are openly disdainful of the recipes and the owners who use them.

RodRussell
7th January 2012, 03:59 AM
I feed Bella a 'Premium vet recommended kibble' and she scratches quite a bit. I am thinking of taking her off it to see if it is the food. She has a few little bits of flaky skin that looks like dandruff. How long would it take to see a change in scratching if I change the diet?

I think that a "'Premium vet recommended kibble" is an oxymoron. This is what our vet has written about kibble:

"Another reason for overweight pets is what we feed our pet friends. Commercial pet food is anywhere between 45 percent to 65 percent carbohydrates (grains). Grains are the least expensive part of pet food and can fill the animal quickly. Dogs and cats are more carnivores than we humans are, and we are feeding them almost as much grain (or more) than we humans eat. I feel that this high carbohydrate commercial pet food is the worst food we can feed our pet friends. Our pet friends need fresh meats, not dehydrated meat by-products. I also feel vegetables are an excellent source of fiber and moisture as well as sources of natural vitamins and minerals for our pet friends.

"I feel most commercial foods use poor quality proteins, and destroy even those with high temperature cooking."

How long will it take to see a change in scratching? I really don't think anyone could say for sure. But, you do need to switch from the kibble to the raw very gradually.

When we switch a dog from kibble to a raw diet, we start out with a mix of mainly the kibble with some of the "raw diet" nonetheless cooked. We gradually (over about a week) reduce the amount of kibble and increase the amount of cooked food, until we eliminate the kibble. Then, we switch the "raw" food from cooked to slightly cooked to not cooked at all.

When we did this most recently, we started a young bitch off with mostly the kibble she had eaten all of her life, and some cooked home-prepared food. For the first three or four days, she actually picked the kibble out of the dish and ate only that kibble. She finally caught on to the raw food and has never looked back, near as we can tell.

And, once again, we have our vet approve any home-prepared recipes we use, as well as the supplements we add to them.

Kim N
7th January 2012, 04:02 AM
I may one day feed home prepared raw but for the time being I have been and will continue to feed pre made raw until I am knowledgeable enough to do it myself.

I'll keep my opinions to myself about professionals being so pro bagged and canned food and just say that for us I feel fresh is better and more healthy. I just want to make sure that we are doing it properly.

Kim N
7th January 2012, 04:07 AM
Rod, do you put puppies on the raw diet as well? That is an area in which I would not be comfortable in myself doing without a lot of guidance but at the same time feel horrible having to feed a kibble for that first year. If not what do you feed for the first year?

RodRussell
7th January 2012, 04:35 AM
Rod, do you put puppies on the raw diet as well? That is an area in which I would not be comfortable in myself doing without a lot of guidance but at the same time feel horrible having to feed a kibble for that first year. If not what do you feed for the first year?

We start puppies out on raw after we gradually switch from the kibble they had been eating at the breeders. We would never consider feeding kibble for more than the first week or ten days. But, once again, it needs to be a healthful diet with appropriate supplements.

Kim N
7th January 2012, 01:40 PM
I am having a very hard time finding a good holistic vet in my area. Does anyone in England know of any in the Peterborough, Wisbech areas?

If I can feed a new puppy raw through the first year I would much prefer that to waiting until after that year.

RodRussell
7th January 2012, 02:33 PM
I am having a very hard time finding a good holistic vet in my area. ...

If I could not find a good holistic vet to advise me, I would either feed commercial raw food or follow recipes in a good raw diet book prepared by a good holistic vet.

I forgot to say that we prepared our raw diet recipes from such books, and then had our vet review them and tweak them.

Kim N
7th January 2012, 06:43 PM
Thanks Rod, this is what I am mostly feeding at the moment. http://naturesmenu.co.uk/

They make a lot with rice and I don't use those but does this look good to feed in your opinion and would it be sufficient for a puppies first year? At the moment I am not adding any supplements but am looking into that. Can I ask what you would add to this or could you point me in the right direction of a place/book that is a good source?

Right now we are using this one http://naturesmenu.co.uk/products/category/Banquet_Nuggets/Natures_Menu_Nuggets/

with this one added in http://naturesmenu.co.uk/products/Blended_Nuggets/Frozen_Nuggets/Frozen_Nuggets/

on top of those she gets non consumable meaty bones, usually beef rib, Ziwi pack for treats raw egg about once a week and sardines about once every two weeks.

waldor
7th January 2012, 09:29 PM
I feed Bella a 'Premium vet recommended kibble' and she scratches quite a bit. I am thinking of taking her off it to see if it is the food. She has a few little bits of flaky skin that looks like dandruff. How long would it take to see a change in scratching if I change the diet?

I am not educated nor trained in this at all, but my best guess would be two or three weeks, if not sooner. Our Sophie scratches even if a pre-mixed raw diet includes any type of carbohydrate (potatoes -white & yam/sweet, grains, whatever). There was one that had no carbs, but loaded with berries, seeds, etc. and she scratched from that. (arghhh!)

Sophie came to us with dandruff and dry skin as a pup, and still has it but after adding an Omega supplement, it is much better but not 100% gone. It may be hereditary. I try to rotate her proteins with lamb, which has a higher fat content, and beef, and try to not give all chicken & turkey. I also include a good Omega supplement 1x/day that has:


Fish Oil (1000 mg)*
EPA (eicosapentaeonic acid) (180 mg)
DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) (120 mg)
Vitamin E (derived from d-Alpha Tocopherols plus d-Alpha, d-Beta, d-Gamma and d-Delta) (1.1 IU)

Alana
8th January 2012, 01:16 AM
Thank you! I will give it a go.

RodRussell
8th January 2012, 02:00 AM
Thanks Rod, this is what I am mostly feeding at the moment. http://naturesmenu.co.uk/

They make a lot with rice and I don't use those but does this look good to feed in your opinion and would it be sufficient for a puppies first year? At the moment I am not adding any supplements but am looking into that. Can I ask what you would add to this or could you point me in the right direction of a place/book that is a good source? ...

Among the books we rely upon to educate us about various diets and ingredients is "Dr. Becker's Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats", by Dr. Karen Becker -- http://amzn.to/zInCFO

We also find that Dr. Becker's posts on the Internet are helpful, like these:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/10/my-top-3-pet-food-picks-from-an-upscale-boutique-shop.aspx

http://www.drkarenbecker.com/nutrition/raw_food_diets.htm

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/07/07/pets-protein-dry-food-and-disease.aspx

Sabby
8th January 2012, 02:04 AM
I am having a very hard time finding a good holistic vet in my area. Does anyone in England know of any in the Peterborough, Wisbech areas?

If I can feed a new puppy raw through the first year I would much prefer that to waiting until after that year.

Hi Kim
I go to a Dog Training Club in Uppingham (not that far from Peterborough), there is a lady that has a good holistic vet but I don't know how local he is. I will find out for you.

lucidity
15th January 2012, 12:17 PM
If you don't have a good vet to review your home made raw meals, I think it's a better idea to buy commercial premade raw, dehydrated, or kibble/cans as part of the dog's diet to make sure that they're getting all the vitamins they need. My dogs are getting about 40% raw in their diet right now. I don't have absolute confidence that they are getting 100% enough vitamins/minerals from it so I still feed kibble and cans, which have gone through AAFCO guidelines and have enough vitamins/minerals.

Kim N
15th January 2012, 01:16 PM
Rod, LOVE Dr. Becker and get her regular emails!

Thanks Sabby, that would be great! We are actually in Welney nearer to Wisbech but go into Peterbourgh a lot since we don't have a lot here.

Lucidity, that is exactly what I am doing right now. Our vets at the moment are very basic so until we find one that suits us we are feeding commercial raw, Ziwi Peak as treats, some Ziwi peak canned and some non consumable meaty bones.