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MomObvious
29th February 2012, 01:24 AM
I'm glad someone posted the youtube link. I'm in the US and have wanted to see this. I find all this information good for all of us and troubling what about someone like me who hopes to own a cavalier puppy one day? I am new to the "pure breed" world. I am learning about cavaliers to be a better owner. Am I only hoping the own a "doomed" breed? I have been looking for a breeder who does scan their breeding stock, takes their dogs to a cardo for heart checks and I have learned a lot about at what age my stud and dam dogs should be at what tests. However, it is VERY hard to find this breeder.....with all the science and know how I am not willing to roll the dice and have a puppy created for me with poss serious problems. I do not want to support anyone who is not doing the RIGHT things for the breed. I want a healthy dog. What are my chances for ever owning a cavalier??? Is this a dream of mine that will never come true? :bang: I really trust the input of all of you. Please let me if I'm understanding all of this. I have looked into working with rescue groups here in the US maybe I can help the breed that way for now but I still want a puppy one day.

Sorry this post is a little rant-ish. I'm just concerned for this breed too.

Thanks,
Melissa

RodRussell
29th February 2012, 04:27 AM
... I have been looking for a breeder who does scan their breeding stock, takes their dogs to a cardo for heart checks and I have learned a lot about at what age my stud and dam dogs should be at what tests. However, it is VERY hard to find this breeder.....with all the science and know how ... What are my chances for ever owning a cavalier??? Is this a dream of mine that will never come true? :bang: I really trust the input of all of you. ...

Good questions, Melissa. The odds are stacked against you, especially in the US, because so few cavalier breeders follow either the MVD breeding protocol or the SM breeding protocol, much less both of them. If you find one who does both, let me know.

If you want a puppy from a breeder who follows both protocols, you probably won't find one. Should you compromise your standards and take a puppy from a breeder who has not followed both of those protocols? That is up to you. Having watched PDE2, you know what Carol Fowler would tell you.

And that is and has been the big problem for a long time in the US. We have two national breed clubs, one in the AKC and one out of it. Both of them refuse to recommend that their members follow either protocol. In fact, both of them have concocted phony MVD breeding protocols which no panel of cardiologists has ever approved, and neither club has even acknowledged the existence of the SM breeding protocol.

So, with breed clubs like those two, the CKCS is on an unstoppable downward slide.

MomObvious
29th February 2012, 08:04 PM
Thank you so much for giving it to me straight. This is sooooo sad. I honeslty had no idea when I began researching this breed that they suffered so much for very little. I just find it so hard to believe every line of cavliers alive today have these 2 major medical issues in their bloodlines. I believe it tho after learning so much. Its very very sad. Did we as humans just simply not know this information until it was too late?? or did bad breeding practices really lead to this widespread issue. I'm sure its a little of both. And in my opinion, MY OPINION its completley wrong of these breeders to ignore the real science and not help their own breed. Is it really all about bragging rights (my dogs is best in show) and money (selling puppies). Oh man what a wake up call for me. My heart is broken for this breed. Cavaliers won't even be here in another 100 years. I personally feel this is call for me to work with rescue groups- they can't run without fundraisers and help from people looking for nothing in return. I'm not sure I will ever own one of this amazing animals- but I might be able to help a few on the way.

I will continue to hang around here. People are super nice and after we are all dog lovers too.

Melissa

Karlin
1st March 2012, 05:41 AM
There are breeders out there, but they are hard to find. Right now, those who do health test and follow breeding protocols will not be enough to save this breed -- just too few, too little impact. But we all hope the tide will change.

When I went looking for a breeder, I had started to research the breed and read about how serious heart disease was in the breed and knew the depressing statistics. It was hard to find anyone even doing VET heart testing in Ireland much less using a cardiologist, as should be done. It was very hard to make the decision to go with a cavalier, knowing already the grim likelihood of early-onset heart problems. :( SM only had just begun to pop up in some brief mentions... it was very hard to get information so I contacted a number of the researchers to get info and set up a website as much for myself to have a single point of reference, as for others. Understanding of the disease is so much further along now and there's solid evidence the breeding protocol for SM works too -- so there are tools for breeders -- plus many low cost MRI centres especially in the UK. But still many don't scan, results are kept hidden, few follow both disease protocols... and there are just so many exceptions people make. Breeders want certainty of results and DNA tests but even when they now have a DNA test for one horrific condition -- dry eye/curly coat AND EFS as well, which only affect cavaliers :( -- hardly any breeders are using it.

On rescues: I have two rescues and though both have mild SM, neither have murmurs (at age 7 and 5). I think if you want a cavalier, why not consider a rescue through one of the groups like Lucky Star? Or one of the breed rescues? If I couldn't be sure of a health testing breeder and felt I really wanted this breed I would certainly opt for a rescue dog (just being aware of the uncertainty of background). Fostering and doing transport etc is a good way to maybe get to know the breed! Of all the couple of hundred rescue cavaliers I homed over the years, I am only aware of a couple that went on to develop a serious level of SM. Some have quite mild levels, many have heart issues over time.