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View Full Version : This is what may give Cavaliers a Future



Margaret C
29th February 2012, 11:08 PM
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7066/6796156830_edc9ac53bf.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39096140@N03/6796156830/)
Copy of BVA KC MRI certificate (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39096140@N03/6796156830/) by Monty92 (http://www.flickr.com/people/39096140@N03/), on Flickr


This is what the new BVA/KC MRI Certificate looks like. The results will be published on the Kennel Club website so buyers can check that the puppy they choose has the best possible chance of not developing early-onset Syringomyelia.

The Scheme has only just started, but in future all responsible breeders should be able to show these certificates for any Cavalier scanned from this year onwards.

tealcisgod04
1st March 2012, 12:21 AM
This might sound mad but wouldnt it be great if there was a website which listed all breeders who do sm checks and have certificates like the one above... (as well as heart and eye checks). With enough momentum and support it could be a number one resource for the cavalier buying public.

tuppenlil
1st March 2012, 08:32 AM
This might sound mad but wouldnt it be great if there was a website which listed all breeders who do sm checks and have certificates like the one above... (as well as heart and eye checks). With enough momentum and support it could be a number one resource for the cavalier buying public.

There already is, the KC Health Test Results Finder (HTRF)

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx

The BVA/KC Eye Scheme has been running for many years so has lots of results
The BVA/KC CM/SM Scheme has only just started
The BVA/KC Heart Scheme will have results when it starts

The KC Assured Breeder scheme only REQUIRES eye testing at the moment, and RECOMMENDS Heart Testing and SM screening. Hopefully this will change to all 3 schemes being REQUIREMENTS in the not too distant future. Formal schemes do need to be up and running to enforce the requirements by having results available to automatically check.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf

The KC Assured Breeder Scheme could also utilise breeding age restrictions ( as are in place for many other breeds) so that Breeding Guidelines are adhered to. It could also make a requirement that available DNA tests are used (Dry Eye/Curly Coat and Episodic Falling - CKCS unique disease).

Inbreeding coefficients can also be checked
for individuals:
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/inbreed/Default.aspx?breed=6149

for a potential mating:
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/kinship/Default.aspx?breed=6149

So there is already plenty of health information available out there, and there will soon be a lot more.

Maggie

Brian M
1st March 2012, 09:14 AM
Hi Margaret

And thank you ,would these certificates be given each time you take a little one for an MRI irrespective of age ie say next
time I take Daisy to Chestergates for an update scan .

Kate H
1st March 2012, 11:35 AM
My understanding is that you have to ask - and pay 100 for it - if you want your scan to go the the BVA/KC panel for grading. They are the ones who issue the certificate, and they simply grade, they don't comment or advise. The result will then go onto the KC website and also onto the dog's KC registration. So there's really not much point in non-breeders doing it, since - if their Cavaliers have a pedigree - they can send their scan results to the EBV scheme anyway. I presume Chestergates will give you their usual own certificate, though I think they have changed to using the same grading system as the BVA/KC scheme, and they have tweaked their scanning procedures so that the panel will accept them. The primary purpose of the new scheme is to prevent breeding from dogs with SM - and to make the results much more public, so that prospective stud dog users or buyers can check out whether a breeder is scanning and what their results are. The likes of Brian and me are scanning simply to monitor our dogs' health, and his girls are spayed and my Aled is neutered, so no-one's going to be checking whether they will be suitable parents for a new puppy!

Breeders can, of course, opt out of the scheme by choosing not to have their scan results sent to the panel - as I will do when Aled has his mini-scan at Chestergates on 1 May (no obvious symptoms, just a check-up). A neutered rescue of unknown parentage is not going to contribute much to the scheme - I simply want to know whether I'm living with one dog with CM/SM or two!

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Nicki
1st March 2012, 09:30 PM
Thank you Margaret and Maggie for these really helpful and informative posts - I have tagged it for people to find it easily.

There is an excellent guide to the BVA/KC scheme which you can download from Clare Rusbridge's site which clearly explains the grading using scans to make it clear http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/Syringomyelia/BVA-kc-2/

CM/SM grading scheme

Margaret C
2nd March 2012, 01:43 PM
Clare Rusbridge has a CM/SM breeding guideline summary for all relevant toy breeds on her website http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/syringomyelia/docs/BVA_KC_summary_download.pdf

Looking at the little bitch in the certificate shown above, these guidelines suggest that the safest mating ( as far as the resulting puppies are concerned ) is to a scanned male with no SM or a dog over 5 years old with central canal dilation (CCD)

The guideline does not try and address CM. Ideally one would want to find a mate that fits into the above criteria and also has no or very slight CM, but that possibility is very remote. The vast majority of Cavaliers will also have a 2 grade for CM.

It appears from some recent comments that some breeders are not aware that this guideline to the new Scheme exists. They are expressing concern that people will breed from cavaliers in pain that have scans that show no SM.

This guideline clearly shows that dogs that are symptomatic, with clinical signs of CM and/or SM, are in the red 'Do Not Breed' section.
Advice from Specialists has always been that no symptomatic dog should be used for breeding irrespective of how well they scan.

anniemac
3rd March 2012, 01:09 PM
Clare Rusbridge has a CM/SM breeding guideline summary for all relevant toy breeds on her website http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/syringomyelia/docs/BVA_KC_summary_download.pdf


This guideline clearly shows that dogs that are symptomatic, with clinical signs of CM and/or SM, are in the red 'Do Not Breed' section.
Advice from Specialists has always been that no symptomatic dog should be used for breeding irrespective of how well they scan.

I thought so because I made a comment once about it. I wouldn't say clearly because, honestly, it is hard for me to understand. I would imagine Elton would be a CM 1 (of course he's not graded but he has mild cm) he is definitely showing symptoms and yelping some.

So I would think nothing lost to the gene pool (since he was castrated) because he should not be used for breeding (over 5 also no murmur by vet). No one except a few people believe me. I'm doing what I can to help him but to be honest, some symptoms are worse than Ella and some he doesn't have at all.