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Brian M
1st March 2012, 10:54 PM
Hi

There seems to be loads of people that want to breed their dogs that honestly I dont think they
have a clue ,can some kind person put a simple list for me of all the required tests taht shoud be
done beore you can think of breeding ,SM ,MVD ,PSOM ,Eyes ,Patella ,Hips but can you list in
chronological order pls and a rough idea of cost ,as I really want to deter them and leave it up to
the expersts so a nice big list pls .

Thought about starting a poll to see if we can get an idea what we have between us with things like
SM CM PSOM DISC CLEAR etc just to see if we can get a percnetage amongst us as to who has
what ,any thoughts pls

Alana
2nd March 2012, 09:32 AM
I think you should do the poll. I hope you didn't think I was interested in Breeding because of my post. I posted that if I won the lottery I would breed because I would have the money to do all of the necessary tests that need doing to help produce clear lines.

Nicki
2nd March 2012, 06:36 PM
I'm not sure there is any point in doing a poll TBH Brian, this had been done several times previously, but obviously the results are not statistically accurate as you are not getting a true representation of the population. There are already studies showing the incidence of these conditions http://cavalierhealth.org/index.html carries all the up to date research also on http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/ [SM]

It would show that many members have dogs with these conditions obviously - but if your dog is not affected, how many people would actually bother to vote?

Sorry that may sound a bit negative it is not meant to be so.



There is some information here on Margaret's site http://cavalierpuppy.co.uk/, also copies of certificates.


Puppies should be eye tested between 8 and 12 weeks but a certificate for the litter is issued rather than individual certificates. 45

All potential breeding dogs should be checked:

for luxating patella ideally between 8 and 15 months [as the ligaments tighten up after that age] - this can be done by a vet who can issue a certificate - cost depends on the vet, sometimes only a consultation charge but they can charge for the certificate too.

Eye tested annually by an ophthalmologist [this is a requirement of the Assured Breeders Scheme in the UK - although the breeder doesn't have to abide by the test results!] - 48 but often cheaper at health clinics

Heart tested annually - by a cardiologist - around 25- 45 but often very cheap or even free at health clinics.

~~ Eyes and hearts should at a minimum be tested in the 12 months prior to the birth of your puppy ~~


MRI scan - the new BVA/KC scheme is now in place, there is a great deal of information on this on http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/
I think most centres are charging around 200 plus there is a charge of 100 for the scan to be reviewed by the panel and a certificate issued. It is recommended that the dogs are scanned before being bred, ideally at 3 and again at 6.

There isn't currently a separate test for PSOM, it is usually an incidental finding on MRI scanning.


There is now a DNA test for Episodic Falling and Dry Eye/Curly Coat from the Animal Health Trust at a cost of 48

Hip scoring - 50 for the certificate plus the cost of anaesthesia and x-ray plates - 150 - 200
Hip dysplasia is not perceived to be a huge problem in Cavaliers, partly due to their size I think [not so much strain on the skeletal system] . By the time they start showing problems it's often dismissed as arthritis anyway. I have had one with moderate hip dysplasia [ but she also had other skeletal issues.] There have been quite a few Cavaliers on the forum over the years with hip dysplasia.
The mean score for the breed is 16 - each hip is scored individually. The best score for each hip is 0, the worst is 53. Sadly when dogs are x-rayed and found to have bad hips, often the x-rays are not then submitted for scoring [happens in all breeds, confirmed by several vets]






From Maggie's post http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?40931-This-is-what-may-give-Cavaliers-a-Future&p=414133#post414133

the KC Health Test Results Finder (HTRF)

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/se...t/Default.aspx (http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx)

The BVA/KC Eye Scheme has been running for many years so has lots of results
The BVA/KC CM/SM Scheme has only just started
The BVA/KC Heart Scheme will have results when it starts

The KC Assured Breeder scheme only REQUIRES eye testing at the moment, and RECOMMENDS Heart Testing and SM screening. Hopefully this will change to all 3 schemes being REQUIREMENTS in the not too distant future. Formal schemes do need to be up and running to enforce the requirements by having results available to automatically check.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/down...healthreqs.pdf (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf)

The KC Assured Breeder Scheme could also utilise breeding age restrictions ( as are in place for many other breeds) so that Breeding Guidelines are adhered to. It could also make a requirement that available DNA tests are used (Dry Eye/Curly Coat and Episodic Falling - CKCS unique disease).

Inbreeding coefficients can also be checked
for individuals:
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/se...spx?breed=6149 (http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/inbreed/Default.aspx?breed=6149)

for a potential mating:
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/se...spx?breed=6149 (http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/kinship/Default.aspx?breed=6149)


Clare Rusbridge has a CM/SM breeding guideline summary for all relevant toy breeds on her website http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co...y_download.pdf (http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/syringomyelia/docs/BVA_KC_summary_download.pdf)


Rod Russell's site http://cavalierhealth.org/breeders.htm#HOW_TO_FIND has some very helpful information, also lists all the tests that are available.


I'm sure others can add to this list, trying to do this quickly[!] so it will not be complete.

Nicki
2nd March 2012, 06:47 PM
This is also helpful!!

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?11336-Thinking-of-breeding-Read-on

Karlin
2nd March 2012, 07:00 PM
Thanks Nicki --extremely comprehensive and useful post!

Personally I don't think member/online polls on an issue like this are very meaningful and will instead be misleading. Lots won't bother, those who do tend to be those with affected dogs anyway, and lots also do not realise they have dogs with problems, sometimes because their vets are missing a diagnosis, so there's no accuracy. As Nicki says Rod's site and Clare's have lots of the actual research papers with incidence noted and these are far more reliable and meaningful.