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View Full Version : UK BVA/KC CM/SM MRI scanning Scheme details now up on BVA website



tuppenlil
7th March 2012, 11:32 AM
The scheme notes are now available on the UK BVA website:

http://www.bva.co.uk/canine_health_schemes/Canine_Health_Schemes.aspx

Leaflets and further information will also be available at the BVA Canine Health Schemes stand at Crufts.

sins
7th March 2012, 12:43 PM
They've put up the procedure notes from the HD scheme!:huh:
Sins

RodRussell
7th March 2012, 02:20 PM
The scheme notes are now available on the UK BVA website:

http://www.bva.co.uk/canine_health_schemes/Canine_Health_Schemes.aspx

...

That paragraph has been there since February 1. That's the irony. They post an announcement on February 1 that the new scheme "will launch in January 2012."

Then they go on: "Full details will be posted shortly on the website". It has been over a month since that statement has been up there, and no details have been posted.

Since then, there was the big announcement about PDE2 going to be broadcast, and the KC unveiled its so-called "health" video, all making the roll out of the CM/SM scheme ideally timed. And yet, BVA and KC let it all slip by. PDE2 was broadcast, and interestingly, PDE2 hailed the KC for this CM/SM scheme, assuming that it would have been released by the time PDE2 had broadcast.

So now, the release of the "details" has slipped to Crufts. Oh yeah? We shall see, I guess.

tuppenlil
7th March 2012, 02:28 PM
They've put up the procedure notes from the HD scheme!:huh:
Sins

So they have!
Well, 2 of the 3 documents are about CM/SM scheme.........thats progress..............2 more than yesterday...........!

Maggie

RodRussell
7th March 2012, 03:34 PM
Oops, my mistake. Yes, BVA finally has posted the FAQs and the scheme. The scheme's diagram seems to be a dumbed-down version of the one that has been on Dr. Rusbridge's for several weeks -- not in colors and fewer columns.

Well, it is underway. Let us hope it does not get ignored like the MVD breeding protocol has been in the US. It will be interesting to see if either of the US clubs post anything about it.

anniemac
7th March 2012, 05:33 PM
It will be interesting to see if either of the US clubs post anything about it.

Come on Rod...... What do you think?

RodRussell
7th March 2012, 09:58 PM
Come on Rod...... What do you think?

I think the US clubs will ignore it. Maybe, even, they will devise their own protocols which call for no MRIs at all, but just feeling the back of the neck with the breeders' finger tips. That is about the equivalent of those clubs' MVD protocols.

And, then maybe the CKCSC,USA will announce their protocol as "historic", like it did its bogus MVD protocol.

Kate H
8th March 2012, 03:07 AM
I'm going to say a little solitary hooray for the BVA/KC scheme :rah: It's taken a lot of hard work by a lot of people over several years. It nearly got scuppered when some breeders dug their heels in about publication of results, but the KC and the BVA stood firm. It's already improved the grading system for MRIs, and it's a huge step in the right direction - after a lot of foot-dragging and trying to go off in wrong directions.

So thank you to everyone involved :thnku:

Kate, Oliver and Aled

Karlin
8th March 2012, 05:04 AM
I agree, Kate -- it is an important development. :thmbsup:

Karlin
8th March 2012, 05:09 AM
Maybe, even, they will devise their own protocols which call for no MRIs at all, but just feeling the back of the neck with the breeders' finger tips.

:rotfl:

Yes, and then no doubt will note that their observations about their own half dozen fingertip-tested dogs outweigh results taken from 550+ dogs that have been MRI'd, and give a much clearer picture about a medical condition than that pesky, pesky peer reviewed scientific data... :rolleyes:

Nicki
8th March 2012, 10:40 AM
I'm going to say a little solitary hooray for the BVA/KC scheme :rah: It's taken a lot of hard work by a lot of people over several years. It nearly got scuppered when some breeders dug their heels in about publication of results, but the KC and the BVA stood firm. It's already improved the grading system for MRIs, and it's a huge step in the right direction - after a lot of foot-dragging and trying to go off in wrong directions.

So thank you to everyone involved :thnku:

Kate, Oliver and Aled


joining you in this sentiment Kate, it's been a long time coming and a HUGE amount of work, especially in the face of adversity, but at last it is here and hopefully it will be supported, as this is the only way forward.

Nicki
8th March 2012, 11:02 AM
I'm going to say a little solitary hooray for the BVA/KC scheme :rah: It's taken a lot of hard work by a lot of people over several years. It nearly got scuppered when some breeders dug their heels in about publication of results, but the KC and the BVA stood firm. It's already improved the grading system for MRIs, and it's a huge step in the right direction - after a lot of foot-dragging and trying to go off in wrong directions.

So thank you to everyone involved :thnku:

Kate, Oliver and Aled


joining you in this sentiment Kate, it's been a long time coming and a HUGE amount of work, especially in the face of adversity, but at last it is here and hopefully it will be supported, as this is the only way forward.

Pat
8th March 2012, 03:45 PM
Maybe, even, they will devise their own protocols which call for no MRIs at all, but just feeling the back of the neck with the breeders' finger tips.

I know you are being sarcastic, but don't forget Dr. Dewey's "Beezer Squeezer" technique! I think that many (most?) neurologists use a similar test during the extensive physical exam. It's not "exact" and obviously can't replicate the info learned from an MRI but it does give a clue. This is one reason that we always encourage owners to have a consult with a neurologist (hopefully one familiar with CM/SM) if they suspect a problem EVEN IF they can't afford an MRI. A consult with a physical exam done by a neurologist familiar with CM/SM can give very valuable information, and the cost in my area is around $150.

Pat

anniemac
8th March 2012, 04:46 PM
I know you are being sarcastic, but don't forget Dr. Dewey's "Beezer Squeezer" technique! I think that many (most?) neurologists use a similar test during the extensive physical exam. It's not "exact" and obviously can't replicate the info learned from an MRI but it does give a clue. This is one reason that we always encourage owners to have a consult with a neurologist (hopefully one familiar with CM/SM) if they suspect a problem EVEN IF they can't afford an MRI. A consult with a physical exam done by a neurologist familiar with CM/SM can give very valuable information, and the cost in my area is around $150.

Pat

Well said. Elton and ella got the "beezer squeeze"

Pat
8th March 2012, 05:24 PM
Well said. Elton and ella got the "beezer squeeze"

I should explain that this is not an accepted neurological medical term! Dr. Dewey said that he had a teacher named Mr. Beezer (Beazer?) who would pinch the unruly boys on the back of the neck very hard when they were misbehaving - so he made up that name for when he pinches the back of a dog's neck during a physical examination. He told this story at his seminar at the 2010 AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) convention.

Pat

RodRussell
8th March 2012, 05:41 PM
I know you are being sarcastic, but don't forget Dr. Dewey's "Beezer Squeezer" technique! I think that many (most?) neurologists use a similar test during the extensive physical exam. It's not "exact" and obviously can't replicate the info learned from an MRI but it does give a clue. ...

Yes, I am aware of the neck squeeze, which may be helpful in the fingertips of a knowledgable neurologist. But, if and when the CKCSC,USA hears about it, this squeeze will become the basis for its new SM breeding protocol.

I can see it now: "If the dog does not flinch when its neck is squeezed, then it's okay to breed."

Davecav
8th March 2012, 06:48 PM
And they charge $150 to squeeze a dog's neck?? WOW I'm definitely in the wrong profession.

Karlin
8th March 2012, 06:59 PM
We wouldn't want to forget the 'beezer squeezer'... :lol:


And they charge $150 to squeeze a dog's neck?? WOW I'm definitely in the wrong profession.

What's your profession? Bet we could come up with a similar 'you get paid that much just to do that!' too... :D

Of course neurologists do a lot more in an exam than squeezing a dogs neck anyway -- having been to a couple with my SM dogs for clinical exams. And they know how to actually determine something from where and what they squeeze -- coupled with many other professional exam techniques and observations -- unlike pet owners or breeders. Or the majority of vets, who consistently miss neurological signs on clinical exams, going by the evidence of so many.

Cardios are a great example too of how someone with the proper professional training can provide a wealth of information through simple exams that the layperson or vets cannot.

tuppenlil
9th March 2012, 06:50 AM
They've put up the procedure notes from the HD scheme!:huh:

Sins

The procedure notes are now the correct version.

http://www.bva.co.uk/canine_health_schemes/2737.aspx

Maggie