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Charlifarley
14th May 2012, 09:11 PM
Bosco had bloods taken by our vet last Friday, as a routine thing because he's on medication for SM - Lyrica and Trocoxil. I got a call today to say that all was well apart from the fact that his platelet count is low, so we are going back in on Friday to repeat the test.
Thanks to Karlin (http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?9125-Cavalier-blood-platelets-important!) and others, I know that this can be normal for some cavaliers, so I'm not worried yet, but was wondering, is it possible to have had a normal blood count last time, and now have it coming in low?

Nicki
14th May 2012, 09:20 PM
Not sure about that Shirley, hopefully Rod will see this and may be able to give you more information. He has a page on it on his site http://cavalierhealth.org/platelets.htm

I guess it may depend how it was counted, it should be counted manually - did they do it by machine this time? I would check that out before submitting Bosco to another blood test.

Charlifarley
14th May 2012, 09:36 PM
Thanks Nicki. I've looked at Rods page and the other link that's on Karlin's post but didn't see an answer there. I'm pretty sure the count was done manually but I'll check it out.

RodRussell
14th May 2012, 11:12 PM
...I know that this can be normal for some cavaliers, so I'm not worried yet, but was wondering, is it possible to have had a normal blood count last time, and now have it coming in low?

I agree with Nicki about the counts. If both counts were manual, then the question arises: how good was the person doing the manual counting? Low platelets are so common in this breed that, unless the dog exhibits symptoms like lethargy or small red or purple spots on it, caused by broken capillary blood vessels, the dog is not ill.

Charlifarley
14th May 2012, 11:23 PM
Thank you. My gut feeling is that this isn't anything to be worried about.

Nicki
19th May 2012, 09:55 PM
Did you have the test repeated Shirley?

duseskiz
30th January 2013, 11:21 AM
Hello there, i want to ask something about this topic. i had read http://cavalierhealth.org/platelets.htm link before so i knew about low platelets in cavaliers. Last december for an annual check we had Duses' blood test that showed us PLT number was 20 which should have been 200-500 in Turkey. Ok not a suprise but MPV (Mean Platelets Volume) is (now i am looking at the test result) 7,5 which is between normal values (3,9- 11,1). here are my first question; if the number of platelets is low, MPV should have been high, right?
Second question; is there any chance to be MCV (Mean Corpuscular Volume) and MCH(Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin) high as in Duses' test MCV is 80 (should have been between 60-77) and MCH is 25,2 ( should have been between 19,5-24,5).
Third Question; in the test LYM (lymphocyte) is also high; 6,7 (should have been between 1 - 4) . One of my friend's cavalier's blood test is the similar and their vet had said this could be a autoimmune disease (lymphocytes break the platelets as lymphocyte thinks platelets are stange organisms, that's why platelets numbers are low) they send blood sample to pathology and pathology confirmed it. The cavalier was on steroids for a month and nothing changed. Now they are waiting like 15 days as a break and then will start a treatmant again. I am concern now if this is true my baby might have the same disease. However, on the other hand, Duses does not show any symptom like red or purple dots on skin. In fact, she had patella and spaying surgeries last year without any problem including clotting. She seems like a very healty girl...I will discuss this with my vet but also i wanted to ask you.

P.S; I tried to be clear as much as i can with my English :rolleyes:

Karlin
30th January 2013, 12:01 PM
I think those vets urgently need to contact a cavalier club before they start any dog back on steroids, or yours. They need to clearly understand what is normal in this breed.

If nothing is outwardly wrong with the dog and the ONLY issue is blood test readings -- and they have not done a hand count of platelets as is often necessary with cavaliers -- there is almost certainly absolutely no reason to stick dogs on treatments. :thmbsup:

I would have your friend print out the info on platelets and give it to her vet (and I would refuse such treatment -- especially steroids which eventually have many potentially risky side effects! -- on a dog if there was no other problem except blood test results). I also would not treat your own dog for anything based on blood tests showing low platelets.

I am sure some others will come in here on this issue and the specific elements you are asking about. Rod? Pat? :)

duseskiz
30th January 2013, 12:18 PM
I would have your friend print out the info on platelets and give it to her vet (and I would refuse such treatment -- especially steroids which eventually have many potentially risky side effects! -- on a dog if there was no other problem except blood test results). I also would not treat your own dog for anything based on blood tests showing low platelets.



i said to her the same thing "print it, show your vet and talk to him". All the blood results just made me confused but i would not use steroids till i am %100 certain that there is more than low platelets...Thank you Karlin :)

RodRussell
30th January 2013, 01:43 PM
... Last december for an annual check we had Duses' blood test that showed us PLT number was 20 which should have been 200-500 in Turkey. Ok not a suprise but MPV (Mean Platelets Volume) is (now i am looking at the test result) 7,5 which is between normal values (3,9- 11,1). here are my first question; if the number of platelets is low, MPV should have been high, right?

I think the mean platelets volume also takes into account the size of the platelets. Cavaliers tend to have some over-sized platelets, which is believed to account for their lower numbers.


... Second question; is there any chance to be MCV (Mean Corpuscular Volume) and MCH(Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin) high as in Duses' test MCV is 80 (should have been between 60-77) and MCH is 25,2 ( should have been between 19,5-24,5).

I don't know about this one.


... Third Question; ... One of my friend's cavalier's blood test is the similar and their vet had said this could be a autoimmune disease (lymphocytes break the platelets as lymphocyte thinks platelets are stange organisms, that's why platelets numbers are low) they send blood sample to pathology and pathology confirmed it. The cavalier was on steroids for a month and nothing changed. Now they are waiting like 15 days as a break and then will start a treatmant again. I am concern now if this is true my baby might have the same disease. However, on the other hand, Duses does not show any symptom like red or purple dots on skin. In fact, she had patella and spaying surgeries last year without any problem including clotting. She seems like a very healty girl...I will discuss this with my vet but also i wanted to ask you.

I think you are exactly correct about the vets in this case. This is the typical hysterical reaction from ignorant vets who refuse to accept the fact that cavalier owners know more than they do.

duseskiz
30th January 2013, 02:01 PM
Thank you Rod, I will see what is gonna happen after i said to my friend all about this especially this part of Diagnosis -- DNA Testing in cavalierhealth.org; "However, many veterinarians who are ignorant about the cavaliers' benign disorder hurriedly conclude that the dog is suffering from immune-mediated thrombocytopenia (IMT), which is a very serious autoimmune disease in which the dog's body attacks its own blood platelets as though they are a pathogenic bacteria or virus."

Hopefully the vet agrees and stops steroids...

mommytoClaire
3rd February 2013, 01:10 AM
I have to agree with the others, please don't let them put your dog on steroids without knowing what is really going on. I have several friends whose dogs developed diabetes after being on steroids for an extended length of time.

Karlin
3rd February 2013, 11:20 AM
If the vet doesn't stop them, I'd as an owner refuse to give them to an otherwise healthy dog if there is no sign of a problem except blood tests in a breed where low platelet counts exist in a third of dogs simply because they have large platelets, not a lack of them. If there are other considerations that's a different issue but from your description an otherwise healthy dog with absolutely no health problems or symptoms is being given steroids. No, no, no!!!

Steroids are one of the most powerful of drugs with some of the most serious -- including life-limiting -- side effects in high or long term doses. They can be absolutely critical for some illnesses and can also give quality of life where there is little -- but using them must be very carefully considered if for anything other than short term high dose/fast taper situations (eg for a painful short-term inflammation/injury). Long term or in high doses they can cause disease including diabetes, organ problems, osteoporosis, weight gain -- just a huge list of problems.

The dog cannot just stop taking them however, they have to be tapered off, generally (depending on the dose) or cutting them off abruptly can cause a serious health situation on their own.

I speak as someone well familiar (unfortunately!) with steroids as I have had to take them at a low dose for 18 months for a type of arthritis (should be off them very shortly... yay!).

Many vets are far too liberal-handed with steroids as they can come across to the owner as a miracle drug -- they will stop many symptoms and improve pain dramatically for example -- but this is a *serious* drug and not one I would give unless with very good reasons for long term care. Or at all, in the case of this dog and this situation, as described.

duseskiz
6th February 2013, 11:15 AM
I have to agree with the others, please don't let them put your dog on steroids without knowing what is really going on. I have several friends whose dogs developed diabetes after being on steroids for an extended length of time.

noo, i would not put my dog on steroids...I am a person who hates to take medication till it is necessary. So, if my dog has to take pills it is because we dont have any choice :)) thank you, love :)))

duseskiz
6th February 2013, 11:26 AM
If the vet doesn't stop them, I'd as an owner refuse to give them to an otherwise healthy dog if there is no sign of a problem except blood tests in a breed where low platelet counts exist in a third of dogs simply because they have large platelets, not a lack of them. If there are other considerations that's a different issue but from your description an otherwise healthy dog with absolutely no health problems or symptoms is being given steroids. No, no, no!!!

Steroids are one of the most powerful of drugs with some of the most serious -- including life-limiting -- side effects in high or long term doses. They can be absolutely critical for some illnesses and can also give quality of life where there is little -- but using them must be very carefully considered if for anything other than short term high dose/fast taper situations (eg for a painful short-term inflammation/injury). Long term or in high doses they can cause disease including diabetes, organ problems, osteoporosis, weight gain -- just a huge list of problems.

The dog cannot just stop taking them however, they have to be tapered off, generally (depending on the dose) or cutting them off abruptly can cause a serious health situation on their own.

I speak as someone well familiar (unfortunately!) with steroids as I have had to take them at a low dose for 18 months for a type of arthritis (should be off them very shortly... yay!).

Many vets are far too liberal-handed with steroids as they can come across to the owner as a miracle drug -- they will stop many symptoms and improve pain dramatically for example -- but this is a *serious* drug and not one I would give unless with very good reasons for long term care. Or at all, in the case of this dog and this situation, as described.

Hi Karlin,

they are off to steroids for sometime, they have a heart promblem now i am not sure but it might be because of stereoids :( I asked if it was MVD but she said no. She said the vet saw some liquid around the dog's heart or something like this. Oh boy, i think she needs another vet as she does not know what the real problem is. everytime i asked about something she answers unconsciously, maybe her vet doesnt explain anything, i dont know. i said second opinion might be helpful once and she said she believed in her vet, i keep telling time to time but i hope this does not end sadly :(