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Super Princess
22nd July 2012, 08:20 PM
i know the rules of CT..so i really hope if i word this correctly i wont get in trouble. im sorry but i need to turn to people who know what to do. none of my friends really GET the issues we face..only you guys. if it shouldnt be here karlin you can totally delete it.

Ive been on one waitlist for a while now. i had a 1.5 hour conversation with her and have been fairly impressed with what ive heard. one of the issues is shes so far away ill have to wait an extra month and then have her ship the puppy via plane. (its like a 26 hour drive to and from) but one thing she dose not test for is SM. and that scares me.
she dosnt see the point as they can develop it right afte they do the testing? (is this true)
shes not sure when shes going to have her next litter.

lastnight i found a site that shows all the breeders..what tests they do and i saw a bunch that DO test for SM so i emaild them. one closer by..she has a much smaller pack of dogs (5 vs 11) tests for SM and JUST did a breeding. its the PERFECT timeing that ive been looking/hoping for (late fall early winter) but it was such an unexpected email im not sure what to do. shes going to send me pics.

Nicki
22nd July 2012, 08:29 PM
Please do not go to a breeder who doesn't test for SM, hopefully reading through the posts on here makes you realise how important it is that we only support breeders who ARE testing. The breeders will come up with all sorts of excuses for not testing.

I think shipping puppies is much more common in the US, but I think it's not a great start for a puppy, it's stressful enough moving home anyway. Also you do not see the breeders set up, the Mum, how the puppies were raised etc It's very easy for them to send photos but how do you know they are hers? It could be a puppy farm for all you know.

Have a look at Margaret's website, it is UK based but will give you some idea http://cavalierpuppy.co.uk/

The 2nd breeder sounds a much better prospect.

ashleighelizabeth
22nd July 2012, 08:39 PM
I agree that the second breeder sounds like a better option! If I was you I would try to have a conversation with the second breeder on the phone to see if you feel comfortable with her or is she close enough to go visit and then you could look at all of the health certificates and the parents?

Super Princess
22nd July 2012, 08:42 PM
Even just typing it out on here the choice seemd obvious. but i think your reply is maing me feel better about it.its pretty much everything i want i just wasnt prepared for that email. although its exzactly what ive been hoping for. And i like that its close enough to check out.

I think the tests for SM are SO important. i think anyone whos seen the videos or talked to someone on here whos experianced knows how huge it is.. Thats why i was so suprised by a few ive talked to who say they dont see the point.

The one thing i found very interseting though..is when i announced i was adopitng a cavalier my mom and my sister immedatly asked me NOT to go back to olivers breeder..they had bad feelings about her. the breeder in middle of no where..told me a bit about the previous breeder..shes not even aloud in the breeders club because she no longer follows the rules. so my families instincts were correct.

I think this is one of the hardest decisions you have to make when choosing to adopt a puppy..is finding hte right person who belives as strongly as you do for health

Super Princess
22nd July 2012, 08:44 PM
i defently want to have a phone conversation with her.. i tink once pups are born i may pop over real quick and check out her kennel.

Emkaybee
22nd July 2012, 09:25 PM
If you can do it, I'd suggest doing all the checking and visiting the kennel before the pups are born. You'll be much more pragmatic and level headed about what you see if there aren't cuddly pups to distract you. Many unethical breeders deliberately show the puppies first so people get all excited and don't ask so many questions. It's a marketing technique. Then if you like the set-up, you could put yourself on the list there and be reasonably assured of getting a puppy. Good luck!

MomObvious
22nd July 2012, 10:00 PM
If you can do it, I'd suggest doing all the checking and visiting the kennel before the pups are born. You'll be much more pragmatic and level headed about what you see if there aren't cuddly pups to distract you. Many unethical breeders deliberately show the puppies first so people get all excited and don't ask so many questions. It's a marketing technique. Then if you like the set-up, you could put yourself on the list there and be reasonably assured of getting a puppy. Good luck!



I completely agree. When I was breeder searching I got so frustrated, the first question I would ask is can I come visit you? If the answer was anything be yes I would end the chat then and there. One kind of local breeder I found told me sure...we arrived at her home to have her bring dogs to a "less used" side yard!! The outside of her home look lovely however, I was not able to see where the dogs spent most of their time.

If the second breeder allows you to visit and can show you proof of health screenings I would arrange to go see her now.
Melisssa

Super Princess
23rd July 2012, 12:05 AM
thats actually a really good point. Ive just emaild and asked her. I cant do it right away but in a month or so. before the pups arrive. it dose help to come on and talk to people who know though. THANKYOU :)

see with oliver..we never did get to see the yard etc because it was night time by the time we got up island.
but that was somethign the middle of nowhere breeder was interested in because olivers breeder is no longer a member of the provinces club due to not folllowing the rules.

Karlin
23rd July 2012, 12:12 PM
As you are so rightly thinking yourself, I would not go near a breeder who has said what she has said about SM -- that is asinine. How such breeders can live with themselves and what they risk doing to the breed through their willful ignorance is beyond me.

SM and MVD are the two biggest risks to every cavalier -- and most will get both, t some degree, eventually -- an appalling situation that MUST be reversed. The degree to which puppies may get these diseases and the pain and suffering SM and MVD may -- or may not -- cause is directly linked to a breeder wisely choosing sires and dams that have been scanned/auscultated so that s/he knows exactly what state her breeding stock is in and the risk she is taking with a given mating.

That breeder's approach is many times more likely to introduce severe SM at an earlier age. A breeder that scans and chooses mates based on scans can minimise the development of SM, pain and tragedy.

Please do not support such idiots and such a neglectful and cruel approach to breeding. You are right to walk away, as hard as that can be.

You have been a longtime member of the board and went through a very distressing loss of a dog with one of these diseases already. I know you surely you do not want to duplicate this experience with SM. :( There are many guides for finding puppies on the right hand side of the main CavTalk page to help, and many discussions here in the past on research that shows just how significant a difference scanning makes (between ALL puppies eventually scanning with SM versus none to under 25%) which you can use as a basis for finding a good breeder.

If we all truly love and care about this breed (and ant it to have a future) we will not want to risk a single puppy living with SM or MVD or support breeders doing so little for the breed rather than their pocketbook.

All of us who know this breed and care for it need to show that dedication through supporting health testing breeders who can help save this breed. To do otherwise is to abandon the breed to eventual demise -- it *cannot* sustain the impact of having breeders ignore the testing tools they need to help the breed have a viable, pain-free future and a normal lifespan that once again matches that of other breeds of similar size. If puppy buyers do nothing, the breed has *no future*. Puppy buyer money is the single biggest motivator for most breeders to do the testing they should be doing.

I'd recommend contacting Laura Lang or Anne Eckerlsey (breeders) for suggestions of health-testing breeders or to consider their own puppies. A recommendation of good prospective breeders will make your search much easier, especially when so few breeders scan.

MomObvious
23rd July 2012, 02:04 PM
Puppy buyer money is the single biggest motivator for most breeders to do the testing they should be doing.


Amen! I truly believe this, spreading the word about the health problems cavaliers face and educating puppy buyers to do the right thing and spend there money on properly health screened puppies is the only future for this breed.

Melissa

Super Princess
25th July 2012, 01:41 AM
i acutally had a long reply written out lastnight..but i hit hte wrong button and it deletd itself on me..i was too mad at myself to rewrite it lol

Thankyou so much for your replies.
im feeling 100% better about this today. Ive been having lengthy talks iwth her via email..shes sent me the mothers registeration name to google and look at her history..although i dont really undrestand that so it dosnt mean much to me (if anyone else wants to give it a go i can pm you the info) i am going to ask for the fathers as well.
and i was talking to my dad yesterday ..we are going to drive out together in septembe rwhen my mom goes on vacation. he is my eyes for everything. he comes iwth me apartment hunting.. car shopping and all sorts of things because i see 'oh this is such a cute car...this apartment is so pretty with wood floors' he sees the practicality and realisticness of it.. plus hes bought two dogs before and knows what to look for other then the cute dogs.
(hes acutally not a pet man..although hes put up with us kids's constant need for anmials when we were living at home.. he and my mom vowed nothing but fish for now)

ive crossed middle of no where breeder off my list. although i got a good feeling from her and shes in good standings with the kennel clubs and province clubs your right.. the non testing for SM really made me nervous as i almost feel more afraid of that then i do of MVD..which is how we lost oliver (yeah karlin that was REALLY tough. its been a year and a half now and im finally at peace with it..although i dont know if i can ever read that poem i wrote for him without tearing up hehe)

So i will keep you guys posted on how this goes..but i absolutly appreciate all your responses.. i KNEW no one else in my life would really understand the importants of the right cavalier breeder (and tests) although it dosnt tottaly illiminate any chance of the illnesses its a step in the right direction.