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KCB
2nd September 2012, 08:13 PM
Quick question. Has anyone experienced a dog scratching and licking after annual vaccinations. Shots given bout ten days ago and scratching started shortly afterwards. Definitley related to shots as nothing new in food or environment. Is there any antihistamine I can give (piriton in short supply here according to the local pharmacies) or should I just go to vet for care. Probably only solution at vets is to give steroids. I have been giving urtica and this does give some relief but not sure of exact dose.

Thank you in advance for your help.

waldor
2nd September 2012, 10:30 PM
I would do the steroids only as a last resort, after nothing else has worked, because it suppresses the immune system. Have you tried Benadryl (Diphenhydramine)?

Karlin
2nd September 2012, 11:31 PM
Steroids sound very extreme! I'd never give them unless absolutely necessary. If you haven't been to the vet I'd think this should be an urgent priority -- not something to treat alone not least as adverse allergic reactions can be serious.

I'd think there would be a couple of things to investigate -- including whether this is an adverse reaction to the vaccine, or whether the injection into the neck has prompted a response that is related to something more serious but unfortunately, common in the breed, such as syringomyelia.

Also, if you have had this type of reaction, it might help to know that it is no longer recommended that dogs be given annual vaccinations (not for core vaccines). The advice of the major vet organisations in the US is now to give core vaccines every three years -- annual vaccinations can cause problems in their own right including problems at the site of the vaccination. Since younhave had a reaction -- sounds ike an allergic reaction -- this time I'd certainly move to only giving vaccines every three years at most and having the vets separate out the component vaccines and giving them a week or two apart, which is easier for dogs to tolerate.

You do need to be pretty firm on this issue of three-year vaccines still with a lot of vet practices though they should all know this s now the recommendation (this has been circulated to irish vets as well and my vets are moving to 3-year core vaccines). I don't give any core vaccines to dogs after age 7 myself -- all evidence shows they have more than enough protection for life by that point-- and that annual vaccines put animals at risk of cancers, auto-immune disease and other potentially serious problems.

waldor
3rd September 2012, 02:12 AM
I have Sophie titered instead of receiving the annual core vaccines. It actually costs me a bit more, but I feel better not putting stuff into her that she does not need. The only exception is local state law requires a rabies shot every three years, so I cannot get around that. Otherwise, I have her titered and will continue to do so until the lab results show she needs a vaccine.

I often wonder if all these vaccinations have anything to do with all the allergies that dogs have. Dogs didn't have all these problems, twenty, thirty, or even fifty years ago when I was a child. I rarely heard of it, yes I would hear of the occasiona odd dog with allergies, but then perhaps I was just lucky. I'm merely thinking out loud here and not making any statements or hypotheses, but everything has a consequence---both good and bad.

Karlin
5th September 2012, 02:21 PM
I think allergies are more likely to be due to a couple of things -- the narrow gene pools within pedigree breeds which may make them more susceptible to autoimmine responses; and emerging research in humans that indicates autoimmune reactions may in many cases be connected directly to poor gut flora which in turn need a broad and varied diet to foiurish (a repetitive diet of processed foods, eg kibble and tinned food, would be a prime candidate for narrowing the range of beneficial gut flora and one reason I won't feed primariy kibble or processed tin foods) and believe it or not, lack of internal parasites. There is VERY strong evidence that this is the case in humans -- autoimmune conditions and allergies are almost unknown in 'dirtier' societies that still have internal parasites. Good evidence we have evolved to live with parasites and our autoimmune systems go into overdrive if not suppressed naturally to some degree by parasites. There have been trials with worms in Crohn's Disease patients several of which had complete remission of this horrific condition. We manically worm dogs and dose them with chemicals for fleas and ticks. Some of these may actually be beneficial to the dog. I think a lot of what we understand in this regard is set to change radically (see recent New York Times story and The Economist cover story on this issue!).

Without vaccines there would be a far higher rate of death from some horrific conditions in dogs plus we need herd immunity to rabies for protection of not just dogs but humans so we do need vaccines -- but not overvaccination.

BTW I live near an old 19th c military cemetery in Dublin and there are so many tombstones for 1) mothers that clearly died in childbirth as they are only in their 20s primarily and 2) young children, often several dying within days or weeks of each other, from childhood diseases we now vaccinate for. We have lost the sense that at one time it was normal for a third or more of your siblings to die before adulthood from common childhood disease that can now be vaccinated for. I got measles myself back before they realised they need boosters for it, and was so ill -- can see how it routinely killed or incapacitated children for life as what I had was a mild version of it thanks to childhood vaccines. :(

Karlin
5th September 2012, 05:19 PM
Just to prove this isn't a totally crazy idea! This coincidentally was just posted a few hours ago on the ABC News website:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/drinking-pig-worms-fight-crohns-disease/story?id=17148676#.UEd6mI7RfzI

And these:

http://www.annarbor.com/pets/trichuris-suis-ova-crohns-disease-autoimmune-treatment-pig-whipworm-parasite-eggs/#.UEd7347RfzI

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204795304577220993641557460.html