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Super Princess
30th December 2012, 06:53 PM
When i first brought maggie home.she 'got' potty pads right away. it made me excited.


so i was fine with puppy pads..trying tog et her to go outside on one in the carport..but theyre expensive..and i want to eliminate them anyways.
she is so stubborn..and just didnt get the concept of grass.

so she finally has her 2nd round of shots, and i took her for a long for her walk..trying to encourage her to go while we were on the walk..stubborn little thing.
i KNEW she had to go..but she wouldnt..she instead wanted to go home..and was pretty 'eager' to get there..as if she really really had to go.
so instead of going for her pad..i took her to the grass.
it was a cold but dry night (grass was still damp) and i sat on a little ledge next to the grass ..and let her run around..saying 'go poo poo' 'go pee pee' she knew what i was sayign to her.and had to go..but was getting so mad
she was throwing a tantrum.. barking..growling..trying to bite her way off her leash.. just PISSED. lol

so i finally took her to the carport..let her sniff her pad..she did her potty dance and i rushed her to the grass again.
'what the heck are you doing ?" she musta been asking
...she was soooo mad now.. she continued barking /growling at me.. and i keept saying 'go pee pee..go poo poo.' after 5 minutes she went!!! LOTS AND LOTS of praise..and a cookie later...
now that the grass has her sent on it..and she has been going on the grass every time i take her out.

i still have one in her crate at night just in case.. even though im up every couple hours letting her out..
friday night her pad was dry. and today it was only just a little damp. but she did her buisness on the grass every time i took her out.

MomObvious
31st December 2012, 01:58 AM
Funny Fletcher seems to prefer to potty on the patio rather than the grass too. Our backyard is pretty small the grass area is about 6 ft wide by 20 feet long we don't even won a mower we just cut it was a weed trimmer LOL. It big enough for the dogs to "do their business" but not big enough for some real running around. The patio area is larger and for whatever reason Fletcher uses it and NEVER the grass. During the warmer weather months I use the patio every morning I sit out there and have coffee with my laptop so I was cleaning up "business" daily sometimes even as it happened and I was using the pressure washer in the patio weekly. However, since the weather has gotten cold and I do not use the outside I must admit the cleaning up happens about every 2 days.

Also when I walk Fletcher he NEVER pees or poops EVER.....which is fine by me but I thought it was weird but...guess not.

Hey I like my little girls bratty raising little girls either kids or dog they can def show a bratty side.....just use your experience working with children I have found training a dog and caring for young kids IS a lot alike.

Super Princess
31st December 2012, 02:44 AM
im not sure oliver used the back yard much..but he would always go on walks. and he wasnt a big fan of walks sometimes..as lazy as i was. lol
so he'd do his buisness..then hed want to go home. hed dig his heals in..wouldnt want to walk anymore..took a bit of coaxing..

Soushiruiuma
31st December 2012, 10:13 AM
Thistle's breeder trained all the puppies to use the machine washable potty pads. Ugh! Little dog thought every rectangle on the floor was a potty pad (no more bath mats for me!)

If you are having trouble getting that pad to grass transition still you can put the potty pad down in the grass where you want her to go. Puppies can be stubborn though.

Karlin
31st December 2012, 11:21 AM
Your frustrations really highlight an important issue -- why bother with puppy/pee pads at all? So sorry I didn't read that you had started with pads as I and I know many others would have suggested to forget them and just train her outside (vaccinations are not an issue with short trips for toileting to a back or front garden or grass verge).

I don't understand why puppy pads/papers are still used and promoted by (too many) breeders/trainers -- seems such a totally pointless middle step that means people basically end up housetraining twice. You train once to a pad -- then have to retrain the entire process all over again to outside. Honestly I think the only reason pads are promoted is to make money for the producers of them. :) A puppy pad-trained puppy has no idea that they shouldn't be going inside the house -- indeed, they think they are SUPPOSED to go in the house, on a pad, not outside. There's no 'housetraining' logic to pee pads at all.

Seems to be the old-style trainers who mostly advise using papers. Ian Dunbar and others say train outside from the get go :). Or use a bit of turf in a container so that they get the idea of 'grass' but really this still trains them to go inside, not outside -- so much better to just really focus on housetraining for a couple of weeks, getting them out every hour initially, usaing a crate etc. Keep in mind that training only to grass at the start is also a liability -- then they won't go on pavement. Sometimes there won;t be any grass around and you need the dog to go (always a great idea to train to go on a word -- different words for pee and poop and not a common word others might use and trigger an embarrassing accident... :rolleyes:).

One good reason for actually using pee pads :) is if someone isn't home for long stretches of the day -- but for most people (and of course this isn't your case at all :) )surely that's an argument to get an older dog that doesn't need the constant housetraining work. Another is for older, incontinent dogs -- most will choose papers to go on rather than hard floor. My ex-puppy farm girl, who will never be fully reliable like so many puppy farm dogs, gets penned in the kitchen when I go out, with a pad -- she uses it rather than the floor or a dog bed about 70% of the time :lol: and when she does it sure makes cleanups easier. :)

MomObvious
31st December 2012, 01:54 PM
My husband thinks Fletcher doesn't use the grass because our older dog does therefore in his words "making it his area". Again the grass area of our back yard is small. Just wondering if anyone thinks this may be the case? When I first got Fletcher he had no problem "doing his business" in the grass on the leash when I took him to work with me. But since he learned to come in and out of the doggie door as needed he has always used the patio instead of the grass in out back yard. Weird, but maybe hubby has a point about the grass being the older dogs area. We do clean up the yard regularly, its too small not to. Also I never used potty pads or paper I too thought it was only adding an extra step and would prolong the potty training process.

Karlin
31st December 2012, 02:19 PM
PS Please don't forget that puppies (and adult dogs being housetrained) are never 'stubborn' for not getting housetrained right away or refusing to use certain surfaces. They are simply creatures learning a totally alien concept, in the case of puppies, just babies (I bet none of us quickly got potty trained either -- think of it; you spend 2 years or so going in your nice soft diapers anytime your want, then suddenly are supposed to sit on a hard pot and go! And only at select times! It takes kids weeks to months to be potty trained and typically, a year + more to stop having accidents -- and we can speak. We need to cut dogs and especially, puppies a lot more slack than that!).

Think of it from a puppy point of view -- if you spend weeks rewarding the dog for going on a piece of paper on a hard surface inside, how in the world is she easily going to make the leap that now she is supposed to go outside and on a totally strange new surface? Or look at it from yet another point of view -- if the pup decided to go on a bed or on a carpet instead -- a new surface -- we'd be exasperated. :) The fact that she doesn't rush to go in a new place on a new surface is a good thing in general training terms at least, *and what you have trained her to do for weeks now* -- she's only doing what you rewarded her for -- and being a very good girl about it!

This is all why it is so, so, so, so, SOOOOOOO much better to start as you mean them to end up -- train outside from day one, not to pads that only confuse the dog and ensure a long stretch of 'accidents' inside and also, a greater likelihood that the puppy thinks, 'well, if I am no supposed to go on this grass stuff, maybe I am supposed to go on all sorts of new surfaces. Like the sofa, say, or these clothes lying on the floor, or the shoes, or the mattress on the big bed..." :thmbsup:

Karlin
31st December 2012, 02:25 PM
On Fletcher -- he likely just prefers a hard surface -- some dogs do. Most dogs prefer to go where others have gone so really doubt he is avoiding an area for that reason.. You can train him back to grass by taking him out on the lead and rewarding him for using the same place -- same approach as with basic housetraining. :)

Sydneys Mom
31st December 2012, 02:59 PM
I agree with Karlin. Puppy pads just make training an extra and unnecessary step. BellaMia's breeder used a litter box set up and was shocked that I wasn't going to follow the same. But I didn't want a litter box in the room I would be in most of the time and then have to retrain again for outside. Took lots of patience and treats, but she got it. No accidents in two weeks! Fingers crossed it stays that way.

Consistency is also key. If she went to the door, we went out, even if she didn't go she learned going to the door meant outside. And treats only if she went potty. So, many days, you would find me outside in the rain and soaking wet begging, please do pee pee please do poo poo.

Karlin
31st December 2012, 05:06 PM
So, many days, you would find me outside in the rain and soaking wet begging, please do pee pee please do poo poo.

:rotfl:

Oh I remember those days though they were a good long while ago now...

Furrfoot
31st December 2012, 06:19 PM
So, many days, you would find me outside in the rain and soaking wet begging, please do pee pee please do poo poo.

We still have those days...Rose, and Emma, our newest, do not like the rain. Rose has gotten better about it now that we have Emma, though...misery loves company? lol

I admit to having Rose one of those fake grass "Potty Patch" things...Since she actually uses it when she has to go and we don't hear her get out of the bed, I haven't wanted to give it up. It's right next to the back door. Apparently the best thing for Rose has been getting a second dog who isn't house trained- she has been appalled (I wish I had a pic of her face, lol) that another dog has peed/poo'd in her house, and she hasn't had an accident in forever, like she wants to teach Emma to NOT GO POTTY IN HER HOUSE, lol. Win/win for me! :P

Brian M
31st December 2012, 08:34 PM
Hi

My solution ,even though my four are well passed puppy stage ,is to put my coat on and go and outside with them till I am sure they have all been or definately don't
want to go, and of course it has to be Daisy who takes an age .Oh well it all adds to the fun of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and I am sure Daisy does it all on purpose .

Super Princess
31st December 2012, 10:37 PM
well..karlin that was part of my stress poor melissa got to hear about.. and i hadnt posted on here yet.
4 days before i was to pick maggie up, one of my coworkers brought in her huge mountian dog to work.(so inapropriate..that dog was bigger then the kids) and now my boss said she NEVER said maggie could come full time. althoguh 3 of us heard her..3 of us have discussed it with her for months.. we've had conversations about it.. some of our daycare parents are SO MAD maggie is NOT coming in. they were so excited. So i was pretty devistated.
anyways.. the unthinkable happened then.. probably because it was 4 days to pick up date..and by this time my mom was over the moon excited (lol) she asked grandpa if he would mind taking care of maggie while i was at work. this is something i had brought up to dad a few times while i was still in the 'thinking' stage..but dad had dismissed because he coudlnt imagine that going over well with mom.
anyways he has been doing a fantastic job. and helping training. and we think its doing him good too.

shes been doing really good on the grass.. since that night i posted.
i have removed the potty pad from the carport because we havnt used it in days. I have kept one in her crate at night..but been getting her up every time i get up (and i get up SEVERAL times a night for my own bladder lol) so that one has been dry. My mom has suggested removing it.. but im not sure.. She...everyone says that a dog will not go in their space (even if i locked the kennel giving her no access to the rest of the crate) but she dose..and she dosnt ask to go out. even if im up several times a night.
christmas eve was one of those frusterating nights. we were staying at my aunts..so i did not have her crate..only her kennel.

because i went to bed at 11:30..took her out. i was stil awake at 2...i took her out...i woke up at 4..took her out..and was up by 9 and took her out. She went every time it ook her out.. and there was still 2 poop nuggets in her kennel bed. i was right next to her on an airbed..she never cried..whined..asked to be let out..and was pretty much out every 2 hours.... THAT ASIDE...that was the only accident she had at my aunts int eh whole 2 nights we were there. i was thrilled for her.

I still think shes got a stubborn streak even my parents and my grandpa has said it (and we've all raised several dogs over the years ) (lol even if you say no puppy is ever stubborn) I dont expect her to be potty trained or 'get it' for a long while. shes just a baby..and is learning. that being said..no accident is ever her fault ALWAYS mine.(and i NEVER EVER scold her ) just reward her with a treat and lots and lots of praise when she dose what i want her to.