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View Full Version : average weight and height of a cavlier



kingcupid
3rd March 2013, 03:48 AM
I just picked up my first cavalier last nite, he is 12 weeks old and is about 12" tall and weighs 11 lbs 8 oz. Is this a normal height and weight for him at this age?

Soushiruiuma
3rd March 2013, 10:46 AM
That seems kind of big. Is he stocky, or long and gangly (this is a puppy phase, they grow up to look fine)?

It really depends though, Thistle barely grew after 6 months, Guinness kept growing past 1 year, and at 3, is still visibly filling out.

sins
3rd March 2013, 11:12 AM
Looks like he's going to be a very big dog.His weight sounds right for his height,but at maturity,he's going to be well up to size and then some!
Not a problem if he's a happy healthy pet..take him to your vet for a routine check up,if you've just bought him.
Sins

MomObvious
3rd March 2013, 01:01 PM
When Fletcher was a young pup we (the vet and I) thought he was going to be on the bigger size of "standard sized" if not over. Which who really cares? I mean he's not a show dog and I don't care as long as he's healthy. Well Fletcher just turned a year old and I know he may still grow a bit but he weights 16 lbs now. So I think you can never tell.

Karlin
3rd March 2013, 02:03 PM
It is possible that this is a very very large example of the breed, as others note. :)

However to be honest, and I am sorry to say this, I would wonder about whether you were sold a puppy that is only 12 weeks old. That sounds to me more like a dog that might be at least 6 months old. I have seen this happen before with certain types of breeders, who have older dogs they failed to sell and offer them as far younger than they truly are. Otherwise, I would wonder whether this is a cavalier, or perhaps a cross of some sort to a larger breed. Most cavalier puppies would not be that size and weight til at least around 6 months. As others note, the weight is fine for the height of the dog, but normally that would be a far older dog. I have two mature, adult dogs that size and weight (actually, a little shorter).

What does your vet say about this pup's size and age? Can you post a couple of pictures? Many here would likely be able to tell you whether it is likely that your puppy is 12 weeks old. The pic you posted on your intro thread to me does look like an older puppy than 12 weeks -- but also his muzzle is longish which might suggest there's some cocker or similar larger spaniel in his background, accounting for his size. His nose is still not fully black and assuming this isn't a fault (eg the pigmentation may remain mixed pink and black) that could also indicate a younger puppy that is just very oversized, as most noses fill in by 6 months.

Much depends on the quality and honesty of your breeder. Ideally s/he is not a backyard breeder or puppy farmer using some of the meaningless registration services for this puppy -- in other words, as a very basic starting point (but still no real indication of the quality of the breeder), the breeder should be registering puppies either with the AKC or the CKCSC in the US, and no other registry. Then you would have at least, evidence that the breeder claimed this litter was born on a specific date. They could still make up this information sadly -- as there is no way except DNA testing to verify their claims -- but too few breeders do this voluntarily and most won't, I think, til it is mandatory.

If the puppy is registered AKC or CKCSC and your vet feels there is no way this is a 12 week old puppy, then you can file a complaint against the breeder.

If the breeder has neither of these registry affiliations (AKC or CKCSC), then unfortunately there's no way of knowing if you have a cavalier, or a cross, or the family history as many such breeders are not likely to be honest about background and other 'pet' registries used widely by backyard breeders and puppy mills, will register absolutely anything. No reputable breeder uses them.

All that said -- there are definitely some large cavaliers out there :) -- I've had one as large as 35lbs adult size in rescue -- but that large is really rare and probably means somewhere in the background of that line their was a larger breed. The origin of the breed as it was reconstructed in the early to mid part of last century is a bit murky and some lines it is claimed included larger spaniel breeds and larger sized dogs may be throwing back to those. It is all a subject of much discussion amongst cavalier fans. :) There are many previous threads here with input from some knowledgeable people on the origins of the breed.

For a cavalier to be that large at that age would suggest you will end up with a dog weighing up around 30+ lbs or so -- most cavalier puppies that age would be perhaps around half that weight, perhaps a little more but not much. Most cavaliers won;t have reached that height -- which is the full standard height for an adult -- for many more months, suggesting you will also have a much taller dog (more cocker or small springer spaniel size).

What would most concern me here is that the breeder did not fully discuss the very large size of this puppy with you, if he is truly 1) 12 weeks old and/or 2) a cavalier -- this would be a very non-standard dog and any cavalier breeder should have been aware of this and had some sort of explanation (just as one also should for a very undersized puppy).

Of course what matters at core here, is that you love your dog and size should not matter. Breed standards matter primarily for showing dogs, not for our pets. :) But if there's the possibility that a breeder has been deceptive, I would want to take action against that (though there are so few protections for puppy buyers that there's likely little that can be done even if they did sell an older dog as a younger one).

kingcupid
3rd March 2013, 04:31 PM
Here are some pic's of my big boy, his registration says he was born 12/9/12. No matter what size we still love him.
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/Sheila_Hiemenz-Lister/001_zpse6f3216b.jpg
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/Sheila_Hiemenz-Lister/015_zpsee635c16.jpg
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a505/Sheila_Hiemenz-Lister/014_zpscb5c430d.jpg

Soushiruiuma
3rd March 2013, 06:00 PM
His face and body are very much "puppy". I would guess he's 4 months old, not 3. But he's definitely still a pup.

And he looks like a cavalier to me. He won't be earning any conformation titles, but you didn't buy him to be a show dog.

Anyway, he looks like a sweet, cuddly guy. Just more to love.

MomObvious
3rd March 2013, 06:27 PM
Now that I see these pictures I'm thinking he may be older too or a cross breed (tho he looks very very cavalier) 2 things strike me first the pink of his nose if he as much older the pink would be gone and second the length of his ear hair is short and his chest hair (and other hair) is rather fluffy.... I think its something you need to talk to your vet about as soon as possible BECAUSE if he IS older and you have intact female dogs in your house___________________ say no more. While I'm sure cavalier+ dachshund pup might be cute but as you know cavaliers have a ton of genetic health problems, and an accidental litter would be very irresponsible.

I think he is adorable no matter what. No wonder you are in love with him immediately, I would be too.

kingcupid
3rd March 2013, 11:26 PM
I plan 2 keep him away from the dachshunds when they go into heat, he is way to big. As soon as I can make an appointment I am taking him to the vet to see what he thinks. If he is a mix I think I may no what he is a mix of (bull dog).

Karlin
4th March 2013, 12:23 AM
I doubt he would be a bulldog cross -- though that said, sometimes crosses look like one or the other breed and size may be the only indicator of the other parent. I had cavalier crosses born of a rescue mother who came out looking like lab puppies -- they grew to the size of labs and have lab coats but are slightly reddish in colour. I wouldn't believe they had a drop of cavalier except they were born from a rescue cavalier we had in foster.

I would suspect he is older than the breeder stated. If he is doing things like lifting his leg to pee rather than squatting then he is likely closer to 6 months. On the other hand, a larger breed could well be a generation or more back innhis history-- especially if the breeder isn't someone who is club-involved and an experienced cavalier breeder. Some irresponsible breeders just let dogs mix, aren;t careful about who is in heat, and keep numerous breeds to sell. :( Easy for one breed to cross with another in those situations. Then they just breed back to one breed (generally the one they get more money for) and sell the puppies as that breed. It's why DNA registration should really be mandatory on AKC and CKCSC registrations (and internationally).

I think you do need to consider neutering him or spaying the dachshunds -- it is extremely difficult to manage both intact males and females responsibly in one house, even for experienced breeders. That's whey very few show breeders keep both males and females, unless they are fully kenneled dogs (a life in kennels though is a sad situation for the dogs) as it is a real challenge. It can be very hard to tell when a female has gone into heat -- until there's an accidents -- and your dachshunds would run a serious fatality risk of being unable to pass puppies from an accidental mating with a much larger male (in rescue we do emergency spays if we suspect the father is a far larger dog for this reason -- except on th cavalier above -- she was very thin when she came in and wed no idea she was pregnant rather than putting on needed weight, nor did the vets, til it was too late!). If you keep them intact you are going to have to keep them fully separated for at least 4 weeks; most breeders would say 5-6 is safer.

Oreo
4th March 2013, 02:40 AM
He can't be a bulldog cross as he could not be parti colored if that was the case. Parti coloring (white background coloring) has to come in from both parents and bulldogs aren't parti (that I've ever heard of). Long coat has to come in from both sides as well (short is dominant). If he was a bulldog cross he'd have to be the solid clear sable color and as well short coated. There is no way around that genetically.

He looks like a beautiful big boy. He probably is a throw back. I have a dog here that is 27 pounds (slim) and his parents are 14 and 18 and none of his grandparents were over 20 pounds. His three sisters are all ~18 pounds. He just decided to be a bit different.:)

After owning dogs from weighing from 12 to 70 pounds I have to state this big boy is my preferred size.

Oreo

kingcupid
4th March 2013, 04:40 AM
I breed my dachshunds so getting them fixed isn't an opinion and keepin them separate from him won't be a problem. My biggest concern is is he actually a purebred or a mixed breed.

sins
4th March 2013, 09:58 AM
He doesn't look like a mixed breed,looking at his date of birth,was he born in December or in September?
Looking at his date of birth,we would read that as being September in Europe.
Have a look in his mouth and see what his teeth are like?
Sins

Karlin
4th March 2013, 12:57 PM
Thanks Oreo; useful genetic info on coat. I do think American bulldogs can be parti though -- a trainer friend has one from a reputable show breeder in Sweden! White with reddish-tan markings. Definitely could be a throwback to a larger ancestor (which likely would not be cavalier) or a more recent mix.

On knowing whether he is a purebred or a cross -- how reputable and well known is the breeder? Do they belong to one of the national cavalier clubs so that their dogs are tested (shown) against others bred for type and to standard? Do they do the proper health testing (MRIs, cardiologist testing parents and grandparents, follow MVD and SM protocol, eye and hip test? If they do not do these, with proper certs, then that's a big question mark right there in this breed as it has many heath issues and proper, meaningful testing (not 'the vet said my dog is clear of health problems') is critical and indicates a higher degree of breeder responsibility and care for their dogs, and greatly diminishes the chance of a breeder making up birth dates or not knowing who the sire of a litter really is). Who do they register dogs with? Do they DNA-verify their litters?

Unless there is a respectable registry (AKC or CKCSC in the US) with a responsble breeder that has at least 5-gen pedigrees and some DNA proof along the way, I don't think it will be possible to know. I suppose a puppy could be DNA tested for any recent sign of a mix, but I understand those services that claim they can tell people the mix of their mixed breed actually are only so-so in reliability.

And Oreo, of course you are right -- all dogs should be loved for who and what they are :), and size/appearance doesn't matter when the dog is not being shown or bred. :D

AT
4th March 2013, 04:03 PM
Thanks Oreo; useful genetic info on coat. I do think American bulldogs can be parti though -- a trainer friend has one from a reputable show breeder in Sweden! White with reddish-tan markings. Definitely could be a throwback to a larger ancestor (which likely would not be cavalier) or a more recent mix. Unless there is a respectable registry (AKC or CKCSC in the US) with a responsble breeder that has at least 5-gen pedigrees and some DNA roof along the way, I don;t think it will ever be possible to know. I suppose a puppy could be DNA tested for any recent sign of a mix, but I understand those services that claim they can tell people the mix of their mixed breed actually are only so-so in reliability.

And Oreo, you are right -- all dogs should be loved for who and what they are :), and size/appearance doesn't matter when the dog is not being shown or bred.



welsh springer cross ?

He looks purebred to me but is obviously very big

Super Princess
5th March 2013, 02:46 AM
my guess..and i thought this when i saw the first pic of him posted..is hes older then 12 weeks.
when you first posted the weight..the weight and birthdate didnt match up. i think hes probably not a cross..he looks cavalier.
i am a memeber of a cavalier group on facebook and acutally went back because the weight topic came up way back when maggie was 12 weeks.

heres my quote and her litter weight "At 12 weeks, Maggie weighed in at 6.5. Her sister at 5.4 and her other sister at 7.8 all same litter."

my guess.. and maybe others have said it before me..
is that this pup MAY have been kept around for showing. or went to a show home..but since the nose didnt fill into black..it was time to find a new home.
i could be tottaly wrong on that..whos to say. and why would she lie? quite a few cavaliers ive met have been given up due to not show quality. heck my own breeder sent out an email saying the boy pup has come back and isnt show worthy. so maybe im wrong.

id ask a vet for their opinion on how old they think he is.
Id say not just from the weight..but he looks older.

but hoenstly...to you..its not going to matter. he is your baby..hes beautiful and hes going to give you a lot of love over the next few years. weather he's 12 week and big...or hes older and average.. weather he has a bit of other breed in him. hes your baby.. and i am so excited for you, i cant wait to see him grow :D

Super Princess
5th March 2013, 03:18 AM
ohhhh interesting.
i emaild my breeder the pic (hope thats okay) and asked her to guess his age. told her the weight..but nothing else.

she guesses 2.5 months..and shes a very good breeder.

so...maybe he is just a big boy?

Lukesmom
5th March 2013, 03:36 AM
He seems huge, though mine is a lightweight. He's 4 years old, 14.5 lbs and usually measures at 12.5 inches at the shoulder under the wicket. How did you measure your guy? He was 7 lbs or so at 11 or 12 weeks. Was his hair cut or shaved? His coat looks rough.

kingcupid
5th March 2013, 03:42 AM
Thank you Super Princess for showing his pic to a breeder at least now i no he is the age they sd he was ( he is 3 months old). I never planned to show him just wanted a cavalier as a pet. We just notice he was on the heavy side when we picked him up ( like picking up the floor lol). I appreciate what u did for me. P.S. He is so spoiled already, just love him to bits.

kingcupid
5th March 2013, 03:46 AM
Lukesmom he weights 11 lbs 8 oz and is 11 1/2 inches tall, his coat is so smooth i just love petting him.

Super Princess
5th March 2013, 03:47 AM
oh good! im glad. i thought maybe i had overstepped :)
but yes..i didn't tell her very much in my first message..just asked her to guess. then i filled her in after she guessed.
shes a wonderful lady and has lots of knowledge. if she guesses 12 weeks i would say its spot on.

Maybe he'll be a big boy..who knows.. both oliver(my last cavalier) and my cat meeko were told to be 'big boys' when they were little. they were. and i tell you those boys were so full of love it was rediculas :d

I bet he will be spoiled. EVeryone says maggie is spoiled rotton.. theyre right :D lol . again i cant wait! flood the picture form with photos of him growing...lord knows i have with maggie. people (espeiclaly on facebook) are probably like enough already.
but i have a 'disclosure' on my maggie album on facebook. You give a cute puppy to a photographer..expect a lot of photos..and im not sorry lol

Pelempone
5th March 2013, 05:00 AM
Just as a comparison, Jemima was born on 28 Nov 2012. She weighs 3kgs (6lb 9??). I don't know how tall she is, but she is a lot smaller than your beautiful boy!

Lynne
5th March 2013, 04:17 PM
Just to throw my bit in too :) Teddy is now 13 weeks old and when we weighed him at the vets last Thursday, he was 3.7kg. He is long and leggy. I think your boy is utterly utterly beautiful, and I immediately wanted to give him a big love. He's gorgeous. Enjoy Enjoy Enjoy x x x

Ms Debz
7th March 2013, 03:07 PM
Mine weighed about the same and we are starting to think that ours isn't purebred. :( Glad to see that we are not the only ones :)

cpell009
13th March 2013, 04:21 PM
From your picture Ms Debz your little guy looks a bit like a long-hair dachshund - I'm really no expert though!

Karlin
13th March 2013, 05:03 PM
Black and tans often do from some angles :lol: -- and I have heard breeders say they don't like smaller sized cavaliers in the show ring as they can look like longhaired dachshunds, especially some that also have shorter legs! :) I would however agree that this little one is probably a cross of some sort Ms Debz, at some point in his background -- very long and narrow nose. It's the dog that matters though and not the breed or mix! :D

joandesan
13th March 2013, 05:21 PM
I'll have to check my records, but my Bosco is a big boy. I got him from a very respectable breeder at 3 months, and I think he was about 7-8 lbs then. He's now 1.5 years, and has been 20.5 lbs since the 1 year mark. I never expected such a "big" CKC, and he is not overweight, he's just big. I have no doubt about his breeding -- he is 100% CKC. I'll post pictures later.

cpell009
13th March 2013, 05:57 PM
I met two breeders in my search and both of them had rather large males, most were between about 18 and 25lbs. Lady's dad was around 22lbs if I remember correctly. Lady's mom is around 17lbs, and at one year old Lady now weighs about 14.5lbs - she was the runt of the litter though.

joandesan
13th March 2013, 07:15 PM
I was expecting a 10 -12 lb dog, and I wound up with a 20 lb bundle of love! Its a little "Scary" when he comes bounding towards me to jump on my lap! Yikes!

Karlin
13th March 2013, 07:23 PM
A lot of the researchers into SM feel the larger cavaliers, with longer noses and less domed skulls, are the future of the breed. :)

Most males these days seem to be up around 20-22-ish lbs according to some of my friends who show and breed cavaliers. Many feel the need standard sized males even at the top of the standard, are a bit small.

10-12 pounds would have been under the US breed standard -- and no one should be breeding for extra small cavaliers -- so it's good to have ended up with a larger dog I think rather than extra small.:)

anniemac
13th March 2013, 10:12 PM
A lot of the researchers into SM feel the larger cavaliers, with longer noses and less domed skulls, are the future of the breed. :)

I understand that is something they are looking at with the current study.

I am not sure how or if the actual "size" (meaning pounds) plays a difference. I could be the exception but Elton is really small with no SM at an older age. However, I've been told that Ella had more of the domed skull but she was larger (especially on prednisone) in "size" but not sure in relation to her head vs. Elton's.

I wanted to edit this and delete it but just read post on a FB group and maybe size is something in the future. I just know Elton is one of the smallest cavaliers ive seen.

Karlin
13th March 2013, 11:37 PM
It's more that brain size doesn't really vary a lot in dogs -- so breeding them with small sizes means smaller skulls for that brain. Most small breeds also have other anatomical extremes -- high domed heads, tiny snouts, flatter snouts and squashed nose, big eyes in a small skull, ears set at different places... and many of these things together -- it is known that these things turn their internal anatomy around inside their skull, which doesn't seem like the best idea even just as a general point. Also, CM/SM only really exists in toy breeds=small dogs.

Of course not every dog with a given feature that is believed to increase risk of CM/SM will have CM/SM, and some will develop SM well after the point at which an MRI is done, so dogs really need to be followed through life with MRIs to get an accurate picture.

That is what some researchers are trying to do no, and what Rupert's Fund gives money for... knowing more about dogs older than 5-6 is really important to understanding how this condition develops and why it is late onset or no-onset in some dogs and early onset in others. The goal would be to move as many dogs to late, milder onset or no onset. :)

joandesan
17th March 2013, 05:52 PM
A lot of the researchers into SM feel the larger cavaliers, with longer noses and less domed skulls, are the future of the breed. :)

Most males these days seem to be up around 20-22-ish lbs according to some of my friends who show and breed cavaliers. Many feel the need standard sized males even at the top of the standard, are a bit small.

10-12 pounds would have been under the US breed standard -- and no one should be breeding for extra small cavaliers -- so it's good to have ended up with a larger dog I think rather than extra small.:)


Aaaah! I feel better about Bosco and his 20 lbs then! Most of the males I have met are either way overweight, or much smaller than Bosco. Glad to know that bigger may be better than smaller. I excercise him and monitor his food, so I'm assuming he is just "big boned"!

jasperpaw
17th March 2013, 06:19 PM
My youngest who will be 3 in a couple of months time is about 20 lb, he is more of the shape of the show cavalier, he is very hairy so looks bigger, my older cavalier who will soon be 13 is often mistaken for the younger of the two dogs and he is much slimmer and higher in the legs and a completely different shape - which I guess is quite a compliment for him.