View Full Version : A litter of NINE!!!!!!!!!!!

8th April 2013, 06:52 PM
Nine seem like a huge little for a cavalier.... I wonder if there would be any "special" health issues to watch for in a pup from such a large litter. I'm not going to go into how I know this breeder (I don't wanna talk about breeders anyway) but 3 weeks ago she had a girl have 9 pups...9 surviving puppies with "little trouble" I think that's nuts. Then this weekend another girl had 8 yes, 8 all girls too.

Could you image having 17 puppies in your house at once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When she called me my exact words were "Well, that will teach you not to have 2 litters at once again"

8th April 2013, 09:23 PM
Can't imagine how cute 17 little cavaliers would be.

8th April 2013, 10:40 PM
That is a lot of puppies. I've heard of litters of 8 before in cavaliers, but 9 is really a lot.

In terms of health I don't feel there would be any extra risks for the puppies (the usual risks are bad enough anyway). For the mother I think there are higher risks during birthing, but it sounds like she made it through that with no trouble.

8th April 2013, 11:25 PM
I don't think there's necessarily a health issue -- lots of breeds regularly have litters that size or larger -- but smaller breeds tend to have smaller litters and the cavalier average is more like 4-5 . Feeding that many could be difficult for the mother, and probably would need to be supplemented by bottle feeding, I should think?

I'd really wonder about the choice to have two simultaneous litters, as responsible breeders tend to only breed occasional litters, when they are breeding primarily for themselves, and would not have multiple litters on the go. To have two bitches whelping side by side, to me would indicate someone probably producing for the money from puppy sales. Two litters side by side is one heck of a lot of work, and very hard to adequately socialise the puppies and give each mum and litter the attention and time it needs without a lot of people helping out. But clearly this had to be a deliberate choice to mate them both at exactly the same time.

Can only understand this as a reasonable choice in extenuating circumstances -- eg if perhaps these were excellent, MRI scanned bitches with great hearts and family heart history, coming into the age where this would be their last chance to be mated, and there were available studs also with excellent MRI and hearts.

Super Princess
9th April 2013, 12:13 AM
my breeder is amazing(good standings with the club, dose all the right testing, has only 5 dogs vs the 20 and 18 some of the other club members had) been breeding for years..and not too often. (vs olivers breeder..whole nother story)
anyways maggies breeder did two litters at once..maggies was 3 weeks behind the other litter.
she says shes still exhausted from them though ;) not sure she'd do 2 litters at once again.

9 is a HUGE litter for cavaliers. 8 too. we thought 6 was a lot. i laughed at my breeder who had thought and hoped maggies litter would be small (As the last few litters were 1-2 pups) are they smallish pups?

9th April 2013, 12:12 PM
To me the only meaningful mark of a "good breeder" is whether they have done MRI scans, have had a clear cardio auscultation on each breeding dog within 12 months of breeding, and follow the breeding protocols for both MVD and SM (which in the case of MVD means knowing the grandparents on all sides remained heart clear at age 5); eye tests and ideally also hip scores (the average score for the cavalier breed is double the average score of some giant breeds for hip dysplasia -- this IS a significant issue in the breed whatever some breeders may say).

And the buyer needs to have SEEN all these certs and discussed the breeding programme with the breeder.

Everything else is utterly peripheral. I would not even consider a breeder who doesn't do the above, as the most basic starting point.

Then after that, I would start to filter for how they care for their dogs, the number of litters they produce, whether they are even in a breed club (sadly 'good standing' can be meaningless, given the way most clubs approach health). Some health-focused breeders who refuse to join breed clubs, put breed club breeders to shame. They are VERY rare, I hasten to add, and but there are a few.

It is very tough out there to find breeders who care enough to properly test rather than offer excuses about cost, distance to scanning centres, distorting research results, outright lying, etc.

In this breed, with these widespread and serious health problems now well known, any breeder who offers these excuses simply should not be in the breed. If they are breeding they are doing it 1) for their own show egos; 2) the money. They are not doing anything for the welfare of the breed or the individual puppies they produce. End of story.

10th April 2013, 12:43 AM
I completely agree with Karlin!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact I think you should repost that explanation somewhere more people can find it. Those simple lines mean the ONLY thing when looking for a breeder.

Again, I don't want to discuss this breeder (she knows where I stand on the issue) I was just interested if NINE puppies was a super large number for a litter of cavaliers. Also I think its VERY interesting she had a litter of 9 right behind a litter of 8!!!!!!! Health aside we all love these dogs but 17 pups at once???????? I do however think it is perfectly feasible for a wonderful breeder to have 2 litters at a time. If that's the way it played out and the breeder was up for all the work why not..... I personally think a breeder who is doing all the above testing SHOULD be breeding as much as they can and producing healthy long lived cavaliers.

As a side, am I crazy for getting annoyed at the breeders who do knee testing and not SM.......hello we can fix the knees!!!!!!!!!!! SM is a terrible, awful, horrible condition compared to having a dog have knee surgery. Just saying.......